Teras Kasi Archive

---

pyclone wrote:

---

Sitssosk wrote:

---

pyclone wrote:

so what makes tka soo dam special that the devs would want this class to have the most powerful, most accurate and remarkabley it turns out the most ham efficient weapon as well?

---

Because we're 1337 and everyone else is the suck. Go cry some more before I pwn you with my mad azz over powered TKM skillz.

---

LOL i'm the officail tka killer of the universe i'm just pointing out the obvious its a tka's job to die infront of my rifle as far as i'm consered

---

---

Utess wrote:

Okies, valid arguement: VK's stack onto our damage, but outside of armor piercing, they add very little to our damage without them. Extremely high damage vk's will carry an insane HAM cost thus making them almost unusable(especially once the new ham system takes effect). What you consider high ham is acually the lowest melee weapon ham mod aside from the newbie weapons like survival knife. They add lots to your dmg w/out vks you have 250 max dmg at master ap0 with vks you have 280-550 dmg range ap1, again at a realitivly low ham cost for melee class. The reason it seems high is that i bet you all have your secondaries migrated to mind so you have very littel quickness of strength with out buffs

Moderate damage ones will, at most, add roughly 500 damage per hit with Unarmed hit 3. So instead of 2k damage, I now do 2500 damage, and thats with my best attack(these are PvE numbers by the way). Did you know a fencers best attack with ap0 batton, best weopon, does aobue 1800 max dmg and averages more like 1400 if the oponent is mitigating. If sure they would kill for a 500 dmg boost. Also i don't thing those are exact numbers i think its more slike 1800 w/out vk's and 2.5k with

Low ham cost vk's will actually add almost no damage to my attacks so outside of AP1 I gain nothing but increased ham costs. i never used low ham vk's looted some once so i can't really coment as i dont' knwo the stats but i always found dmg to be better then ham cost.

VKs really do not add that much damage at all. I rarely if ever use them in PvE, and those who play PvP, really the only reason they wear them is for the AP1 to get past composite and the like. This is just plain not true, only if you are constantly making low rolls or facinga mitigating oponent will this be partialy true. Should i explain mitigation? since unarmed mitigation doesn't effect tka's, where as it lowers all other classes dmg by 30-40%. VK's add lots of dmg

You claim we are in denial, but I'm not talking at all about how much damage we deal, I'm saying TKA has to be treated differently because we have innate damage mods where as all other professions simply gain speed and their damage depends on their weapons. We *are* our weapon. You are your weaopns but for the sake of balance you have to look at it as a weapon still. don't you?

If VKs worked like regular weapons, we'd actually lose our normal base damage when having them equiped, and that makes no logical senseat all based on the way the profession works. If you want us to do less damage, thats a different story and a different post and arguement, but VKs are not bugged, they are operating as intended, as they have to to work properly with the design of this profession. Wrong again, if they worked like regular weapons you would only equip them vs armor. in that case you would not take the 50% dmg penatly and would in reality gain 50% dmg over unamred. I don't want you to do less dmg, i want you to do the intended dmg with is 250 unarmed dmg mod, not 250 unarmed dmg plus 200 from vk's. You are on par with other melee classes until you equid the VK's.

thanks for making an argument, but i don't follow you to your conclusion "vk's are not bugged and working as intended" You didn't present any comparisons or any info on the intended place of tka withing the melee classes.

I'll throw out one more fact, on release vk's were un certed but quickly the devs relized they were over powered for the brawler treeand put the cert in novice tka, this can be seen as meaning that the dmg wasnot supposed to stack therefore making it an acceptable weapon for the novice brawler through unarmed IV. Furthermore you could see this info as meaning that the vk's were ment to be discarded at novice tka becasue the tka skills would so far eclipse the VK's power.

---

---

pyclone wrote:
cool one of you lamers has a funtional brain woot!!!

---

What the hell is a funtional? When speaking about the level of other peoples intelligence its best to not use made up words.

Also what the hell is a pyclone? Is that what Sarah Lee does to get all her pies to taste the same?

Pyclone pronounced phonetically would be "Pi'clone or Pie Clone". If you were trying to make it sound like cyclone it would be spelled this way "psyclone"

Look out everyone its a pie clone!!!

OOO what flavor is it?

Stupid

Message Edited by Odim on 03-18-2004 03:29 PM

---

pyclone wrote:
cool one of you lamers has a funtional brain woot!!!

---

Utess wrote:

Okies, valid arguement: VK's stack onto our damage, but outside of armor piercing, they add very little to our damage without them. Extremely high damage vk's will carry an insane HAM cost thus making them almost unusable(especially once the new ham system takes effect). What you consider high ham is acually the lowest melee weapon ham mod aside from the newbie weapons like survival knife. They add lots to your dmg w/out vks you have 250 max dmg at master ap0 with vks you have 280-550 dmg range ap1, again at a realitivly low ham cost for melee class. The reason it seems high is that i bet you all have your secondaries migrated to mind so you have very littel quickness of strength with out buffs

Moderate damage ones will, at most, add roughly 500 damage per hit with Unarmed hit 3. So instead of 2k damage, I now do 2500 damage, and thats with my best attack(these are PvE numbers by the way). Did you know a fencers best attack with ap0 batton, best weopon, does aobue 1800 max dmg and averages more like 1400 if the oponent is mitigating. If sure they would kill for a 500 dmg boost. Also i don't thing those are exact numbers i think its more slike 1800 w/out vk's and 2.5k with

Low ham cost vk's will actually add almost no damage to my attacks so outside of AP1 I gain nothing but increased ham costs. i never used low ham vk's looted some once so i can't really coment as i dont' knwo the stats but i always found dmg to be better then ham cost.

VKs really do not add that much damage at all. I rarely if ever use them in PvE, and those who play PvP, really the only reason they wear them is for the AP1 to get past composite and the like. This is just plain not true, only if you are constantly making low rolls or facinga mitigating oponent will this be partialy true. Should i explain mitigation? since unarmed mitigation doesn't effect tka's, where as it lowers all other classes dmg by 30-40%. VK's add lots of dmg

You claim we are in denial, but I'm not talking at all about how much damage we deal, I'm saying TKA has to be treated differently because we have innate damage mods where as all other professions simply gain speed and their damage depends on their weapons. We *are* our weapon. You are your weaopns but for the sake of balance you have to look at it as a weapon still. don't you?

If VKs worked like regular weapons, we'd actually lose our normal base damage when having them equiped, and that makes no logical senseat all based on the way the profession works. If you want us to do less damage, thats a different story and a different post and arguement, but VKs are not bugged, they are operating as intended, as they have to to work properly with the design of this profession. Wrong again, if they worked like regular weapons you would only equip them vs armor. in that case you would not take the 50% dmg penatly and would in reality gain 50% dmg over unamred. I don't want you to do less dmg, i want you to do the intended dmg with is 250 unarmed dmg mod, not 250 unarmed dmg plus 200 from vk's. You are on par with other melee classes until you equid the VK's.

thanks for making an argument, but i don't follow you to your conclusion "vk's are not bugged and working as intended" You didn't present any comparisons or any info on the intended place of tka withing the melee classes.

I'll throw out one more fact, on release vk's were un certed but quickly the devs relized they were over powered for the brawler treeand put the cert in novice tka, this can be seen as meaning that the dmg wasnot supposed to stack therefore making it an acceptable weapon for the novice brawler through unarmed IV. Furthermore you could see this info as meaning that the vk's were ment to be discarded at novice tka becasue the tka skills would so far eclipse the VK's power.

---

---

---

Odim wrote:

Is this a rifleman asking for another profession to be nerfed? Take a look at your own profession.If you look at the profession being used to grief PVP right now, Its CM and Rifleman. Quit being such a whiney **edit**.

---

---

herculewhodaman wrote:
Vk's DO override damge of the base hands.

Base hands are 4 seec speed 10-30 damage

the VK replaces with that stat. The rest is a modifier that would not be replaced, it does not logically make sense in the game to replace a modifier. There are skill tape modifiers that add damage for other profession, TKA just have these modifers built in.

---

I think you hit it right on the head, but noone else bothered to read that.

---

Citairen_Mugarrii wrote:

---

herculewhodaman wrote:
Vk's DO override damge of the base hands.

Base hands are 4 seec speed 10-30 damage

the VK replaces with that stat. The rest is a modifier that would not be replaced, it does not logically make sense in the game to replace a modifier. There are skill tape modifiers that add damage for other profession, TKA just have these modifers built in.

---

I think you hit it right on the head, but noone else bothered to read that.

---

The problem with that reasoning, although itsa great comment, is that unarmed dmg mod should only function when accualy fighting unarmed, vk's are a weapon and shouldn't get the +dmg mod since you are not unarmed when using vk's you are using a weapon with its own dmg range

---

pyclone wrote:

The problem with that reasoning, although itsa great comment, is that unarmed dmg mod should only function when accualy fighting unarmed, vk's are a weapon and shouldn't get the +dmg mod since you are not unarmed when using vk's you are using a weapon with its own dmg range

---

The problem is, the devs have considered VK's as being unarmed. The Fencer, 1-handed sword has a baton. Last I checked that doesn't have a blade. (I don't mean to be elitest or ect, just pointing out the semi-obvious in that Devil's Advocate kind of way)

I'll throw out one more fact, on release vk's were un certed but quickly the devs relized they were over powered for the brawler treeand put the cert in novice tka, this can be seen as meaning that the dmg wasnot supposed to stack therefore making it an acceptable weapon for the novice brawler through unarmed IV. Furthermore you could see this info as meaning that the vk's were ment to be discarded at novice tka becasue the tka skills would so far eclipse the VK's power.

Now then, this is wrong. During the beta, NOTHING had a cert. Certification for a weapon wasn't mentioned, wasn't discussed, wasn't thought of, wasn't implemented, and there wasn't that little weapons cert box in the skills menu. It was added to fix 1 problem:

NOOBS WITH UBER GUNS

Scary thought, I know =), but thats why it was there in the first place. I don't mean to yell it, but "noobs with uber guns" just sounds fun to say. Anyway, it was put in to solve a growing problem. A newbie would get in, run out, buy the greatest T21 he could with money from his friend (who was already established) and proceed to blast the heck out of anything that came his way while he worked on Rifles 1. Thats why certs were created, to keep the giant automatics out of the hands of "kiddie" (newb) players who should really be playing with little harmless rubber band guns (CDEFs). I'm not sure on the subject of VKs at that point, but if what you say is true, which is that they were not certed to novice TKA until after release and not in the giant Cert Rally of late beta ("cert rally", also fun to say), then I will give to you that you CAN take that as a meaning. I don't see how its true. The devs are obviously not against making a stupid change that makes everyone mad just because they didn't change it before. THEY HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE. In fact, this would be less worrisome than other changes, as it would make the anti-TKA people happier! I don't see where the devs would have a problem with changing it if it was an unintended design error.

---

Quote # 2

(Again, Pyclone)

What you consider high ham is acually the lowest melee weapon ham mod aside from the newbie weapons like survival knife. They add lots to your dmg w/out vks you have 250 max dmg at master ap0 with vks you have 280-550 dmg range ap1, again at a realitivly low ham cost for melee class. The reason it seems high is that i bet you all have your secondaries migrated to mind so you have very littel quickness of strength with out buffs

Now, I have a feeling that you are not a TKA. I happen to be one, and let me clear up this HAM cost thing. Though VKs are a low HAM cost comparatively, UH3 is an insane HAM cost in and of itself. Added to VKs, (and even without them) you NEED buffs to fight. They are not an option. Lets just see the numbers for a second. Now, before I get to that though, I happen to be a Twi'lek. My secondaries are maxed except for the two secondaries that unmaxed (as in, put to the minimum) are around 550.I have 500 in my mind secondaries, 1100 in mind, 400 stam, 550 quickness, 625 action, maxed or 500-ish health secondaries and 625 health. When I use UH3 with my VKs, I get OVER 100 HAM costs! Add that to the 1 per second hits, and I'm down and out in a couple seconds. Now, how much damage I do and how fast I do it, thats not really for this quote. The problem is, the HAM costs. I have high quickness and strength, and I still get huge HAM costs with those things. Even without them, I get ham costs in the low 70s. So the argument about the HAM costs not being that high... not true. We hit fast and strong, but we take a toll for it also.

---

I think thats gonna be all, except for this last thing:

(From Ithyalgia)

Ok so a boxer in real life would do less damage to your skull if he was wearing brass knuckles ? but would easier hit through your helmet ?
You know that's what your saying right ?
The way VK work now is not only the logical way but also in a gaming perspective right way.
And you say there has to be a trade off, of course, have you seen the ham used by a TKA using a VK ?
(and then Pyclone's Response)

K noob i'll be you "tka is fine no no don't hurt tka no waaa waaa" lol

you fool, i'm saying that he advantage to vk's isnot more dmg its AP1 witch comes with more dmg, so your analgy does not apply.

Do you think that they ment for tka to be able to double their dmg potential by equiping VK's? no they didnt'

Because they didn't want tka, "unarmed" to have a 250-500 dmg weaopon with is what they have right now with vks', its a power hammer with one sec speed and lower ham.

Okies, I'll leave your spelling and grammar alone, as that will only be adding gasoline to a fire, and besides, typing fast when your annoyed leads to errors, I know from experiance.

Now, I do think this is a very valid argument (of Ithyalgia). Also, I'll leave your comment about lower HAM alone, as I dealt with that before. I'll also leave the condescending tone alone, I'm not here for cheap shots. Anyway, you said that they meant for us to double our damage potential (or at least, you were saying thats what VK's do). This is not true. It just adds a couple hundred to the final roll. If a newbie equips a 200 damage VK, and then attacks something with it, it will still hit for 100. Oops, forgot about the non-cert, bad example, lets try a new one: If a novice TKA equips a VK, (which all novices do, most don't throw away the VK until power 4, when it doesn't really become needed for speed) then they attack something, they will hit only 200 ish more than usual. Well, what I'm trying to say is, that it doesn't double our damage. It may LOOK like it will double our damage, but UH3 being a 4x modifier that doesn't usually support the VK, it only adds a couple hundred and AP1.

Now then, I don't see how the boxing analogy isn't a good one... I just don't see it. I think its a great analogy, better than mine. To see why I don't quite get your logic (though I do see that its a valid argument, its just losing one fact), look at my closing statement.

---

To end it all, it really comes down to one thing: What the devs intended.

To this end, this was what the whole topic was about, but that fact got lost after the first few posts.

Really, you CANNOT* know what the devs intended. The only way you can think you proved what they intended is to use their own system against them, which is NOT a valid point for the TKA profession. No other class in the game has +damage mods. Therefore, there is not a set example to how weapons in a class with said mods would work. You can't find the base speed and power of a pistoleer who isn't using a pistol. You have to use CDEFs as the base. TKA is so different from any profession in how the mods and weapons (well, weapon, theres only one, another oddity) work that you cannot use language and other professions against it.

Personally, I don't care if this was how the devs intended it or not. If they did not intend it to work this way, then I encourage them to CHANGE IT. They've done these things before, they can do them again.Since they have not touched it in almost a YEAR, it leads me to believe that this is what they intended.

In the end, your post is a moot point, won't change the devs opinion, and all it does is stir up trouble. Trouble which I have spent the last 45 minutes typing this long message, lol. In the end no matter what we say, the devs intended it to be this way or they didn't, but either way, posting about it isn't much trouble, and I truly believe they would have changed such a HUGE design flaw if this is what it really was. If I was a developer, I would do this** exactly as they did, as it makes perfect sense.

*assuming you don't know a dev personally, or are good friends with one, or is a spouse, relative, son, daughter, father, brother, sister, mother, ect. of one. I might even accept cousin. But in this case, you need proof, not just reasoning using they're system.

** the word "this" refers to the TKA-VK-damage idea. I have many things I would do differently if I was a developer. One of which has to do with Yavin 4. If I was a developer I would get a team, or even one person, to spend a week or so creating temples. They would be placed randomly around the "planet" and taken over with all kinds of animals. Heck, even have a few deserted ones where you try to find out why they were there and stuff, make little side-quests. Of course, none of these would be POIs, people would just run across them. Also, I would... <rambles on about nothing in particular for a few minutes> ... and that would solve everything! <nods and finishes with a satisfied, accomplishied smile>.

---

chuckynickels wrote:

lol damnit ilcoz, get out of here, leave these people alone

sorry everyone

---

---

pyclone wrote:

translation: "waaaa waaa dont' take away my tka skillz what will i do with out kd/dizzy on the gtef waaa waaa, or what will i do when i can't do 900 dps in pvp waaa waaa"

---