Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Teräs Käsi Discussion: Combat Balance
Trucho-G wrote:
tka should be anti jedi for the simple fact that there will be hordes of evil jedi(darkside) once pub10 is out, if there were to be a profession that could take on jedi it would discourage alot of people from becoming jedi. NO ONE, NO ONE wants a server full of jedi.
We can worry about jedi on another thread friend, not everyone who gets FS will go jedi - and just the Tka you are today will be able to beat those new jedi for a *long* time.
I would like to see some throws and counters *and* dizzy and kd sticka bit more on critters.
As an alternative to different damage types ( VKS should be heat already - that is the premise of a vibroblade in the first place) The tka attacks the 100% kinetic target realizing that the janta buggaboo is shrugging off his blows easily resorts to using wrist locks to throw his opponent away or grappling to strangle or breaking bones or something. It seems to me the TKA would have something in his arsenal to be able to defeat the 100% kinetic resist without resorting to a blaster....
I read a lot of other ideas on this forum before, and I liked a lot of them.
Are we going to get the chance to change some key things?
Finnean wrote:
As an alternative to different damage types ( VKS should be heat already - that is the premise of a vibroblade in the first place) The tka attacks the 100% kinetic target realizing that the janta buggaboo is shrugging off his blows easily resorts to using wrist locks to throw his opponent away or grappling to strangle or breaking bones or something. It seems to me the TKA would have something in his arsenal to be able to defeat the 100% kinetic resist without resorting to a blaster....
Interesting idea, how would you implement it? (Just want to get some more discussion going on this one, as I don't remember mention of a seperate special that could be used having come up anytime recently).
Ryutek wrote:
Finnean wrote:
As an alternative to different damage types ( VKS should be heat already - that is the premise of a vibroblade in the first place) The tka attacks the 100% kinetic target realizing that the janta buggaboo is shrugging off his blows easily resorts to using wrist locks to throw his opponent away or grappling to strangle or breaking bones or something. It seems to me the TKA would have something in his arsenal to be able to defeat the 100% kinetic resist without resorting to a blaster....
Interesting idea, how would you implement it? (Just want to get some more discussion going on this one, as I don't remember mention of a seperate special that could be used having come up anytime recently).
At the time of my original post on that scenario here, restraint was still a damage type - some dev types at fanfest assured people that anything was possible from the art department.
These days, a different AP type could be utilized for this move or a Dot of some type to represent the shattered limb or broken neck, for the throw....a Kd/stun attack plus throwing the opponent 5-10m away or something ( dependant on size of course ).
Existing mechanics now with the jedi trees have "weaken" or maybe the resists could be lowered or bypassed temporarily.
This isnt to have all TKMs running amok , hiptossing NS Elders and slapping them in Figure Four leglocks, just something so that we arent so borked against the 100% resist mobs.
I wont even go into the part of offsetting these extra abilities with more skill points, such as Mastering Brawler to get TKM or elite branches of the TKA tree....
Thanks for reading though!
I wouldnt mind having a maser brawler requirement if their were changes made to the TKA tree that involved more honing of our polearm/1handed/2handed skills that we learned in the brawler tree.
TKA's though focus on the unarmed aspect of combat, their bodies are the weapons, not the sword they hold in their hand. The TKA train themselves to replace a sword with their arm, or replace a polearm with a leg. I like the TKA requirements just fine, doing unarmed 1-4 and the TKN box is still harder than any of the other melee professions. I mean, I can get to novice fencer/swordsman/pikeman in just a couple of hours because they have weapon certifications that greatly aid them. The TKA however dont get a weapon cert until Teras Kasi Novice. Not having a weapon and relying completely on the "unarmed damage" mod is a killer and can wear on your patience. Sure you can still get Teras Kasi Novice in just a day, but I think everyone here will tell you its not as easy to do as the other melee professions...
I'm a little unsure about the entire "jedi watcher" idea. On one hand it gives TKA's a little bit of a different role, and on the other hand I fear that this type of role will force many players trying to protect themselves against the PvP jedi into our profession. I fear that this "jedi watcher" idea will turn into "melee bounty hunter", and I don't believe that this is a road that our profession should travel down.
I believe that TKA should never be the "agressor" in a battle with a jedi. TKA's are martial artists, and martial artists don't go out and pick fights. Martial artists defend themselves, and as such I believe that TKA should continue to have the best defenses against jedi attacks. That said, Jedi in and of itself is a martial art of sorts. Jedi need to train their body and mind, and because of this they should be a little more resistant to our attacks than other professions. Now I'm not suggesting that we give jedi 80% kenetic resist by any means, they just shouldn't go down as easily as other players might. I still question why I can't take out a Dark Jedi Knight NPC yet killing a player jedi is so easily done. What I would really like to see is a TKM avoiding or blocking jedi attacks and occasionally getting a good hit in, and the jedi doing the same. I believe the "agressors" in these battles (IE the ones who attack first) should be at a significant disadvantage. It's not very TKA like or Jedi like to attack opponents for no reason.
Now that I've got the entire jedi thing out of my system lets address the rest.
What offensive abilities?
Most martial artists pick and choose their times and areas to attack. They "look for an opening", and when one happens they take it. I would personally like this to be reflected in our combat. Rather than spamming one special after another I would like to see perhaps a little feed back from the combat system. Perhaps a message that says "It appears as though so and so let down his gaurd on his chest", after which you would know to body hit. This one body hit attack would do alot more dammage to the opponent because they were "vunerable" at the time. This type of message should be timed so that you can't abuse the ability. It would perhaps randomly choose a time to show up after combat is started. You could decide if it was better to spam unarmed2 or KD dizzy some one or if you would prefer to wait for the "Opening" for the chance to do alot of dammage. I think this would add a little more strategy to our profession.
What defensive abilities?
One of the key things in all martial arts is stances and balance. It should be very difficult for TKA's to be knocked down or have their posture changed. The only case in which these types of things should happen is when fighting another melee profession. When you work in close quarters it's always possible for your opponent to do a leg sweep or trip you up with their weapon. Rifleman should also have a greater chance to KD someone simply due to the fact that an impact from a high powered rifle would send most people on their bottoms.
Dizzyness on the otherhand I disagree with. It's very possible to disorient even the greatest of martial artists, flash bangs, grenades. It's also possible for martial artists to dizzy themselves, for instance if you did a twirling kick one too many times you could become disoriented and fall to the ground. It might even be something to look into in order to stop the constant attack spamming. "If you use unarmed spin attack 3x in a rowyou dizzy yourself".
What unique abilities?
I agree on both counts of what you said Ryutek.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Personally I think as it stands that TKA's are a bit "gimped" in group combat. If the opponents have low kenetic resists we can kill these opponents before the rest of the group has even a slight chance to do so, and if the opponents have high kenetic resists we can't do enough dammage to be useful to the group in the least. I'm not sure how to solve this problem but the Razor Knucklers are a step in the right direction. I'm personally of the opinion that no MOB of any type should have higher than 85% resists. But if the developers insist on making 100% mobs then TKA's will need another dammage type beyond heat dammage to be of use in groups.
A suggestion that was made a while back was "meditation leading" (sorry if I got the name wrong). This would be a powerful group skill that would allow you to lead others in your group in meditation, thus helping them to heal their wounds. I think that this would be a great ability to add to our profession to help encourage people grouping with us.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
I fail to see why TKA needs to be dependant on other combat professions in order to survive. Pistoleers for example have DOT attacks, multiple dammage types and the ability to kite opponents. Are they reliant on other professions? There are a number of combat professions that have "weaknesses" yet aren't completely dependant on other professions to kill an opponent. Why can't TKA be one of these professions?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
I already addressed the Jedi Issue above. I'd like to see TKA be more like Navy Seals in the GCW. They shouldn't be on the front lines of battle because of the major ammount of dish/blaster fire. Yet they should be able to get behind enemy lines and disable those few people who get in their way. However this is not really feasable unless the developers plan to add in some type of cloaking abilities so that TKA's can sneak behind enemy lines. With out being noticed immediately.
Message Edited by josfe on 08-15-2004 10:11 PM
Line 1: Force Resistance
The TK would become increasingly capable of resisting Force generated attacks and manipulations. Perhaps even an automatic roll to have a chance of stopping a Jedi from using Force Run.
Line 2: Chi energy strike
The ability to channel internal energy to strike blows and hand out damage in PVE and PVP to opponents with high kinetic resists. If you've seen the movie Bloodsport, think about when Van Damme destroyed the brick in the middle of the stack instead of the top one by channeling the force of the strike. This would allow a TK to overcome high kinetic resists without the need for an additional weapon. Instead of every TK having a razor knuckler and cutting a wide swath through the other classes, overcoming kinetic resists would be reserved for the small number of higher level TKs who worked to obtain the energy strike skill.
Line 3: Chi armor
Somebody in this thread (sorry don't remember who) mentioned speed encumbrances for TKs wearing armor. Not a bad idea, but I would like to see something similar to the Jedi Force Armor introduced to the TK skill tree, but using the body's internal energy instead of Force powers. Something similar to the martial art Iron Shirt skill.
Line 4: Enhanced meditate or Enhanced movement (no particular thoughts, just some ideas to flesh out the tree)
I don't think that the current TK tree needs any changes, however, I would like to see a clearly defined role for the TK class and the addition of abilities to fulfill that role. The current thinking seems to lean towards us being Jedi watchers. One question that needs to be asked is; what is the point of TKs being Jedi watchdogs and how would we accomplish that? Character development in SWG does not work like Dungeons and Dragons where you can define an alignment for your character and your actions can affect that alignment. If it did, we could simply be assigned to watch Jedi who seem to be straying and then take action if they step over the line. Without criteria in place to specify and define rogue, Dark, or straying Jedi, TKs would be reduced to hunting Jedi from bounty hunter terminals. The idea of being a watchdog group is appealing, but with the current system in place, I'm not sure it is possible. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? I've read a lot of threads advocating this idea, but nothing on how it would actually work in the current game setup. In Publish 11 do we introduce an alignment system?
Anyway, those are my thoughts for now. It's getting late and my mind is starting to shut down. If I come up with anything else, I'll post more.
fritz300 wrote:
As long as we can still kick butt better then any other profession and easily dominate Jedi, I'll be happy!
What? Why?
antares
master pikeman
low level Jedi's already have a REALLY hard time vs the TKM/3000 BH already, WHY make it worse?