Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: I think CoB was fixed
Greeblesnort wrote:
I have not done any "scientific" tests....but i used it all night last night. I don't think it is as useful as the fencer CoB (which is ok from where I stand), but out of 10 swings by huurton stalkers I was dodging, counter attacking, and they were missing perhaps 7-8 times (out of 10). I still got incapped a couple times when surrounded...but that is because i was getting cocky with CoB. I am not sure it is worth th 200+ mind hit...but it definately seems to be working to some degree now.
With TKM, master brawler, and some boxes into sword and pike, I have a melee defense of 87, so I would expect critters to miss me 7-9 times out of 10. I have yet to notice any significant defense bonus to justify the massive HAM cost for CoB.
Like I said....not scientific. I definately was not getting hit as much and was blocking\evading\counterattacking....could it have been luck? Certainly.
The log contains 45 attacks on Cielago by Ozzitra.
Ozzitra was blinded for 39 (87%) of all attacks. I will call these "blind attacks".
Cielago was centered for 27 (60%) of all attacks. I will call these "center attacks".
Ozzitra was blinded but Cielago was not centered for 13 (29%) of all attacks.
Ozzitra was blinded while Cielago was centered for 26 (58%) of all attacks.
It is worth noting that Ozzitra was blinded for all but one attack when Cielago was centered, but only to note that a single attack will tell us very little. As a result, it's difficult to say which was more important. In addition, there are very few attacks recorded in which Ozzitra was not blinded (6).
Cielago was hit (including counterattacks) in 23 (51%) of all attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 7 (16%) of all attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 7 (30%) of all attacks which would have hit.
Cielago was hit (including counterattacks) in 18 (46%) of blind attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 7 (18%) of blind attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 7 (39%) of blind attacks which would have hit.
Cielago was hit (including counterattacks) in 13 (48%) of center attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 6 (22%) of center attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 6 (46%) of center attacks which would have hit.
Cielago was hit in 5 (83%) of non-blind attacks.
Cielago never counterattacked a non-blind attack.
Cielago was hit (including counterattacks) in 10 (56%) of non-center attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 1 (6%) of non-center attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 1 (10%) of non-center attacks which would have hit.
Cielago was hit (including counterattacks) in 6 (46%) of blind non-center attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 1 (8%) of blind non-center attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 1 (17%) of blind non-center attacks which would have hit.
Cielago was hit (including counterattacks) in 12 (47%) of blind center attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 6 (23%) of blind-center attacks.
Cielago counterattacked in 6 (50%) of blind-center attacks which would have hit.
Summary: This data is not at all statistically valid, but there does seem to be some evidence that CoB increases the chance to counterattack. I do wonder why only counterattacks and no dodges or blocks show up, though. Cielago, do you have block (which was mentioned to appear as counterattack in the logs) or counterattack from another profession?
If both blocks and counterattacks show up as counterattack and dodge shows up as miss, that could explain it, though.
Regardless, the most "valid" part of the data (and even this is not so good) about center is the blind+center and blind-center part. Here we see that in 6/12 attacks which would have hit when both effects were up, counterattacks fired. But in only 1/6 attacks which would have hit when only blind was up did a counterattack fire. In addition, the hit rate on both is about the same (~50%).
Based on the above evidence, I'd suggest that anybody who wants to test center of being *not* blind their opponent, since "reactions" only happen when something would otherwise hit. I'll also see if I can find time to write up a log parser to check these things over, since I *never ever* want to do this by hand again. :>
Theory: Since I have almost nothing but Defensive Actuity - DA is broken but COB is fixed. I'd love to see data from someone with +50 d/b/c and no DA and someone with +10 d/b/c and no DA - I suspect the former would react much better under COB and the latter would get results = to mine... My data sample was too small for serious consideration, but it gives a little indication.... If anyone posts cob data please at least post your D/C/B/DA modifiers.
Ravana de Bria
Hypatian,
Thanks for log statistics. My character doesn't have any other defense than the ones provided by the TKA tree.
h310ise wrote:
i did a quick test (less than 200 hits total) - Me - 10 block and 43 Def. Acuity, nothing else. I agro'd a humbapa (humkpapa?.... big horse) then immediately Peaced - here's what I found, with COB on, either unarmed/vibros I was missed outright between 1/5th and 1/4 of the time regardless of COB state. With COB on I d/c/b'd once. Without COB I d/c/b'd zero times.
Theory: Since I have almost nothing but Defensive Actuity - DA is broken but COB is fixed. I'd love to see data from someone with +50 d/b/c and no DA and someone with +10 d/b/c and no DA - I suspect the former would react much better under COB and the latter would get results = to mine... My data sample was too small for serious consideration, but it gives a little indication.... If anyone posts cob data please at least post your D/C/B/DA modifiers.
Ravana de Bria
i got something for you.
i have 15 dodge and i dueled a level 10 kadu (mount) and i peaced out and let it hit me while i hit center of being
With a fencing weapon equipted (15 dodge) i dodged 4 times in 30 seconds
w/o a fencing weapon (unarmed) (15 dodge+ 96 defensive acuity) I dodged ZERO times, and i proceeded to hit center of being for another two more trys, and got ZERO dodges
Furthermore I am under the impression that Fencers, Pikemen, and Swordsman are getting our Defensive acuity to stack with their defensive ability, and its working for them, but doesnt seem to work for us, which makes me think that Defensive acuity is broken still, and i believe its very much broken.
supposidly how it is supposed to work is add dodge block and counter attack to our charecters, but not as much as the individual amount of the 3 other class's receive. These other class's can stack these together from rifflemen/pikemen, and pistoleer/fencing, and carbineer/swordsman, and then take defensive acuity and get an even higher number, but we can not.
Im currently a TKM and also in Fencing now with 0-1-1-3 -- I ran sets of tests for COB this morning
With TK on Bocatts on Tat I was missed with or without COB up didnt really seem to make a Huge Difference. I counterattacked 1 time and Evaded 1 time when COB was up however.
With Fencer and COB the combat looked like this - miss miss miss evade miss miss - granted I blinded it but I blinded it was well with TK. The point is with only my 30 dodge I notice a huge improvement in defenses as compared to when I use COB as a TK. This makes me think that defense acuity is still not working as it should be. Guess I can always go pistoleer after I finish up Fencer hehe....
I decided to give this a try while hunting Krayts last night..
Started off tanking a giant canyon krayt, let it hit me for a bit, then threw up CoB, and suddenly it was missing a LOT. I'd say it went from pretty much never missing me, to missing me about 50% of the time (either via evade or just plain missing).
Although it was nice.. I can't say it was worth the high mind cost. Would have just been better off healing myself if I got hit too much. Maybe useful in a duel, but I doubt it. Mind cost is WAY too much.
Maybe useful in a duel, but I doubt it. Mind cost is WAY too much.
in PvP ( not a duel ), CoB is my "matrix tool" if you see what I mean 
If you have 1000 mind, that mean 1500 mind under powerboost, add some food and if you can hire a master dancer your mind is boosted to 2500..the 200 mind cost from CoB isnt a big deal.
As a TKM I never, and I mean NEVER, dodge block or counter attack without CoB. If that doesnt say something is wrong I don't know what does.
That is a question for the Dev : is Def Acuity linked to CoB or not ?