Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Teras Kasi : Issues
After watching Daddar rip through rebels in Anchorhead last night, I'm of the opinion that TKA is anything BUT underpowered. Most were incapped in less than 2 seconds.
KJz
My only complaint is I'm being HAM raped using special attacks since i got my VK. UA lunge went from 78 to 286! That's an increase by a factor of 4. Isn't that a bit extreme?
With a full action bar I can only do 3 lunges and I'd be out of action. Not that I'd do 3 lunges, but sometimes a 2nd one is needed.
I'm sure more than one of the people he tore up weren't all newbs. Even so, 2 seconds to drop someone in full chitin?
"If a master TKA cant kill a novice rifleman then you have a problem." Killing them is one thing, dropping a fully armored opponent in 2 seconds is another.
I think things are ok as is for TKA except perhaps for a lack of a pool hit earlier in the brawler tree.
Most of the guys using knuckles and berserk can't afford to do the HAM to do anything more than autoattack. I think the core of the problem here is that the unarmed base for HAM costs must be super-duper low, and they probably balanced the HAM costs with the idea that you would not ever be using anything. This is why you see HAM costs of 1.5-2x across all 3 stats on the special moves for a brawler. Compare this with say rifleman which has maybe H=0.5, A=0.5, M=1.5 or pistoleer which has H=0.5, A=1.0, M=0.5 and you can see that the multipliers are really high for TKA (something like H=1.5, A=1.5, M=1.5 or higher). You can only get away with this if the unarmed (read not using VK) HAM base costs are MUCH MUCH lower than say rifle or pistol. Since they are not listed anywhere, we can only guess, or maybe derive it by testing.
So with the VK you are not doing pool hits. Which is more potent in your opinion .... 20 dps on a random hit, or 10 dps on a pool hit? Since you have 3 stats, on average that 20dps gets divided by 3 to be around 7dps per pool, which is less than the 10 dps on the pool specific hit. So a pool hit is worth more than double dps of a general attack. This is why riflemen can kite red con stuff, and unarmed guys are stuck running around fighting blues and whites.
If you look at the pool hits for TKA, there is nothing in the unarmed line at all, and you must get up to tier 1 in TKA to get your first pool hit. Contrast this with pistol where you get a body pool hit at tier 1 (1000xp).
At very high levels of TKA, it is probably more effective using pool hits and specials than it is to zerk and use VK's.
So there is an interesting tradeoff here...VKs are a stopgap solution to a lack of a pool hit early in the game, and with the multipliers as is, there is disincentive to use them at very high levels.
Frankly I would like to see VK's go bye bye and (either unarmed damage upped -or- a pool hit added to the unarmed line around tier 1 or tier 2). This would return the style to unarmed purity, bring the HAM costs back in line, and make unarmed fighting more interesting at the lower levels. One problem I have with this is the specials tend to miss a whole lot at lower levels prior to acquiring the piles and piles of accuracy points you get as you climb up, so compared to pistol, in the early game things go slow.
I was amazed at how unbelievably easy it is to get pistol xp compared to unarmed xp...that body shot just rules. You would think that if you were fighting 3 bugs at once that you would want to use the area point blank attack...you dont...the body shot takes them out faster. Thats how potent pool hits are. So when a pistoleer sees 500 damage on a TKA hit, he is probably assuming that is a pool hit like the millions of shots he makes. It is not so.
Another thing to note is the specials table...look at all the pistol moves...+50 to hit...compare that to +15 to hit for unarmed.
Having played a TKA expert in beta, and played a rifleman in beta and now playing a pistoleer and having a friend who is a carbineer my conclusion is .....TKA sucks.
One: People compare TKA damage to thier damage when TKA's can't get better weapons or faster weapons unlike marksmen. I have some darn spiffy weapons now and a darn spiffy set of VK's (had even better VK's in beta) and if I spilt intwo, my ranged weapon self could kill my TKA self every time no question.
Two: The same things they nerfed the TKA's for, the ranged people can and are doing only doing it better, longer(No insane HAM COSTS) and at farther ranges. I am SO AMAZED that the dev's have no clue what really goes on in thier own game. All brawlers need some dev loving and TKA's the most.
Three: TKA's now compared to Ranged now is just pointless. I could stand in the face of any TKA as long as we have the same xp and I would kill him everytime, no question.
Four: I have said it before and I will say it again. Brawlers are the redhead stepchildren of SW. The dev' had the TKA's cool and worth playing, the that time is past.
Dashiva
The problem is our "specials" hurt us more than they help us. After killing thousands of mobs with and without knuckles solo I have a pretty good idea. Virtually every fight in which I use specials I end up worse (on the exact same creature type) than if I just run up and turn attack on. Yeah everyone who doesn't play a TK can comment on how quickly we incap someone. You realize that a Rifleman of the same mastery can do this from a distance right? I don't have a problem with our damage itself. Our specials are not strictly for damage. When I use a speical it's because I want stun or blind to actually do something other than take more damage from me than the creature would have- for little to no effect on the creature's performance.
I don't think going "Berserk" is exactly befitting of a Teras Kasi - they are about discipline and control. I don't think this should go into the TK line. I think this is not the proper way to balance the class. We already take more damage than any other profession, get wounds more than any other profession. Our one weapon increases our damage just like anyone else - yet ours makes it 10x as bad to use specials (Which is no big deal since they're useless anyway).
When I chose this class I certainly didn't envision it as the "run up and turn on autoattack" class. I envisioned a class that would chain all sorts of melee attacks together for devastating results.
The biggest problem was the damage nerf and lunge nerf. With the damage nerf we are all forced to use vibro knucklers or else we cannot do damage even comperable to other classes novices when we are master. However, using knucklers, most of the time, I do more damage to myself than a mob does to me. Using knucklers in PvP is a disaster. I was chasing a MEDIC down who shot me and my UI said he was TWO meters from me during the entire chase but I could never knock him down and for 250 ham points I'm not going to lunge him just for him to get up immediately and keep kiting.
Developers have said that because of the game's latency, we have to allow them a 2 meter grace period in any direction... but 2 meters is 40% of my entire attack range. How are we supposed to catch a moving target when that moving target is IN our range yet we still can't stop them from running.
So, you need to use knucklers in PvE to do any damage, but then you can't use any hit specials or you'll kill yourself. You need to use knucklers in PvP because everyone else will kill you in three shots, you have to be able to kill them in three shots or faster because you will get kited. But if you use the knucklers and you don't sneak up on a target entirely, they will kite you to death. So you knockdown, they get up and start running, you have to remove the knucklers but then by the time you catch them, you've probably already been kited to death.
It's very, very sad when a TKA with Power4 has a poor success ratio against master marksmen sheerly because of kiting and game latency.
I believe i posted some of this somewhere else....
Teras Kasi need some sort of bonus to speed, we need to be able to hit on the run, Vibro Knuckler Range needs to be put out to 6m.. there was another one, but i cant for the life of me remember what it was. I dont want to HAVE to get rifle, carbine, or pistol to be able to participate in PvP, but currently thats about our only option. And i plan on getting Rifleman.... because this way i can participate in PvP.
DoshTerasKasiMaster wrote:
Teras Kasi need some sort of bonus to speed, we need to be able to hit on the run,
You r **edit** right on those two parts, a TK should be able to run a bit more quickly due to his training (his body is his weapon), and we should be able to hit while running, that s just pointless when you run after a mobor a player, he can run and shoot , but you can only run at the same speed and can t hit (NPC brawlers can hit while running so i don t think it s not "realistic" that players brawlers also hit while running...)
For PvP fights you have to use cowardly methods, striking ennemy when they are statics doing other things or so, far distant from the way of fightingI would imagine for a monk.
There should be some kind of special move, allowing you to "jump" on your ennemy , like a jumping kick or just a jump to get closer to the target at least if we don t get a little speed boost.
Btw the HAM costof the Vibroknucklers is just insane, you kill yourself on your ownand your opponent just has to slain you...
AMEN..and AMEN....Also...Is anyone noticing a real difference int Defense and toughness cause I aint!
UP OUR MELEE DEFENSES AND TOUGHNESS IN PvE........or i will sedn you to hell of the upside down sinners!
I also have a Master Pistoleer/Master CH, and my other character which is a Master TKA/Commando
By far... my Master TKA sucks.... VK's just are a instant death... I died to a novice scout the other day....
Medics.... mobs... I cant hold my own... when i first started the character, I was doing well.. now over these past few months i have not played him, My pistoleer has a DX2 pistol that does 200 damage max, he shoots stuff for 1800 damage every 1.3 seconds. its constant... ranged, and there is no stopping him.. on players, I hit them for 600-800 damage per hit. my Master TKA doesnt do that. Ill be lucky to hit for 300 damage, and if they are smart they run, and i cannot hit them again. whats the deal!
Phrypan Skil'et Master Pistoleer/Master CH (Bria)
Arcadia TKA Master/Commando (Natirus)