Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: People don't like dizzy, thats fair. Is there an alternative though to stop kiting?
Tal-N wrote:
Secondly while this deals with people within 15m that doesn't do us any good if they get beyond that range, and frankly its easy to move out of that striking range or resist posture down. This is why I'd propose either giving all melee professions an inherant speed increase (not terrain negotiation) which increases within the profession as you take more and more boxes allowing you to catch up to other players and npcs as they run away. Simply closing that gap is all we melee professions are asking for. The speed increase would naturally not stack across professions, so you only benefit from the bonuses granted to the profession which you are currently holding the weapon for. Maybe have it cap at master with +100 which doubles your running speed and spread very small increments between all of the boxes similar to what was done with the CH profession CL bonuses.
That right there will prevent dabblers, apparently people can't read.
i like it as long as it gets rid of dizzy
but i think double is a bit much
put it in master that would stop dabblers
_____'s ferocious warcry freezes you in your tracks.
The answer is very simple. Make it so you can't shoot while running. That will balance it out.
That's unfair to them then, the ranged fighters greatest strength is the ability to be mobile while attacking and from a design point of view you don't ever want a player to be preventing from attacking like that otherwise it's no different than the dizzy/KD which frustrates people to no end. They already suffer an accuracy penalty however accuracy is meaningless when they can run away indefinently and given any length of time the ranged fighter will always win.
Each has it's place. Let tactics and defenses be your solution (or just get some good kinetic armor:smileyhappy. Leave it the way it is.
The fact is though that even in a realism encounter no two people were ever just as fast as one another and could never indefinently keep away from one another. Also this is a gameplay environment not a real life one so you can't make direct comparrasons as an argument, indeed a sniper would kill someone from 64m away however first of all the sniper nor the victim has an all seeing radar, nor is it a simple case to aim over that distance plus a multiude of other factors. The point here is that ranged fighters now have an unstoppable tactic against a melee fighter, one which nullifies the point of fighting up close. There is no tactics, no matter how buff a melee player is, no matter how much armor, no matter how much their heal they will be unable to land a single hit on someone who is running away. Using walls and such is all very well end good but you can't seriously expect all melee professions to ONLY fight around buildings and cities, that is equally unreasonable.
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but i think double is a bit much
put it in master that would stop dabblers
Double isn't as fast as you might think, the current running speed isn't all that fast as it is plus crossing 64m currently takes around 7-8 seconds, changing that to around4 seconds still allows any ranged profession to land at least two means to stop you from getting any close plus if they run away you'll find that you're now gaining on them slower. Look at it this way:
Scenario 1: Player A runs towards Player B, Player A takes 7 seconds to reach Player B without a speed bonus. B is stationary and has time to hit A a total of around 4 times as a master in any profession.
Scenario 2: Player A runs towards Player B, B see's this and starts to run from Player A. B then gets unlimited number of hits against A. A tries to retreat however is the same speed as B thus they cannot win the encounter under any circumstances as long as both players are equally aware and skilled.
Scenario 3: Player A has x2 movement bonus from being a melee master, A runs towards B. B remains stationary and has a total of 4 seconds to respond to player A. During that time they can land a total of 2 attacks as a ranged master.
Scenario 4: Player A has x2 movement bonus from being a melee master, A runs towards B. PlayerB begins to run away from Player A. Because of the speed bonus A will now catch up to B within 7 seconds, during this time B can attack at least 4 times.
So as you can see, double their speed isn't a huge bonus when the other player also starts running. Alot can happen in 4 attacks and you can be sure at least one of their supression special attacks will bring the melee player to a standstill allowing the ranged fighter to put even more distance between them. If they have knockdown AND posture down attacks it's possible to keep someone at a distance long enough to kill them. Take this situation.
A and B are 70m apart, A is melee and B is ranged. As speed is 20m per second because of their speed bonus. A and B notice one another at the same time, B begin running away just as A runs towards them. The total distance between them is 70m and A is gaining at a rate of 10m per second now that his opponent is running away. He closes to 60m within a second, B opens fire with knockdown but it doesn't work. A is now at 50m from B and again B fires with Knockdown. This succeeds and A is knocked to the floor, B moves to 64m and continues to attack landing a total of 3 hits before A is able to stand. A again runs towards B, knockdown will not work for another 30 seconds in which time A can close the distance. They are once again at 64m and A runs forwards, B uses supression fire once. it missed, A is now 50m from B. Player B uses supression fire again it doesn't work. A is now 40m from B. Finally B stands still a moment to aim, A closes to 20m from B. Supression fire hits and A is forced kneely,Player Bthen begins to run away again landing another 2 hits. Assuming A isn't already dead from the massive amount of attacks he has suffered he will be on his feet by the time B is 50m away. Within 5 seconds A can close the gap while taking more hits but there is nothing left to stop A dead in his tracks and KD and posture down timers still haven't passed. 4 seconds later A is within striking distance of B, the timer for knockdown will now expire within 10 seconds as a total of 21 seconds have passed in this fight.
So in all the melee player has a very hard time against a smart ranged opponent however ultimately they have a chance to win the fight as the ranged player runs out of options. The fact is that they can land well over 15 hits well before the melee player hits even once, this is why i said double speed is probably best. Any slower and it'll be once again impossible to move into range of a ranged fighter before the KD or posture down timers expire.
In reguards to stopping dabblers it would be a simple case to only have the speed bonus when using a melee weapon that you're trained in. In that situation a ranged fighter is no longer able to attack and the two people will never catch one another however they also cannot attack each other so thats a perfect situation. Also remember that it's unfair to force novice players and non-masters into an impossible situation which we have at the moment, they need the same ability to close the ground however it needs to be less effective than a master so that in PvP a master truely is more dangerous than a novice. However as I said, perhaps allowing all melee professions to stop and start burst run as long as their 'burst run pool' allows it. This would be available to anyone who gets a novice elite melee profession and for brawler masters as well.
Message Edited by Tal-N on 02-19-2004 06:54 PM
_____'s ferocious warcry freezes you in your tracks.
That would be far too powerful and again it's not any different than KD/Dizzy except it works at 25m, it stops the other player from fighting and would make things very unpleasent and frustrating for them. That is also the problem, as a ranged fighter would simply change from trying to stay outside of 15m to staying out of 25m instead which brings us back to the same problem again.
Then once they got close... KD/posture and whatever else
Thats the point, you won't get close. As you said you haven't had much experience with PvP, you'll see how utterly pointless it is once you fight in areas where you can't use objects for cover. Theed is a nightmare because of all the open space.
Message Edited by Tal-N on 02-19-2004 06:59 PM
UnarmedCharge1, 2, 3
1hCharge1, 2, 3
etc...
Basically, they are a set of new specials that require a target, provides a short burst of speed, a damage multiplier, lowers defenses briefly, has a minimum and maximum range, and noticeable HAM costs.
Each level of the charge (1, 2, 3) would increase the maximum range (but not minimum), provide slightly better damage (just like other attacks) and increased HAM costs (just like other attacks).
This would provide a melee class with the appropriate weapon equipped the chance to close the gap, but if used repeatedly, would wear them down. There should be a reasonable delay (in line with other combat specials for the class) to prevent over-use. This would also work along the same lines as /follow (which should still be separate), so if there are obstacles in the way and you are unable to get to your target, the attempt would fail.
I feel that this concept could be implemented into the current game mechanics without major changes and could easily be balanced to fit in with other specials.
Buy a gun guys.I have TKA and yea I hate getting shot,but I also have smuggler.
Shoot me in the eye I shoot you in the nads.