Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Armor Break....
Vupos
Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:48 am
#14
Daikatsu wrote:
I agree the 75% is way too high, but that's what was decided. I would think a 15%, 30%, 45% armor break resistance line would be more in tune with the 60% maximum this game seems to be gearing towards. Additional foods or spices would make up the last 15% needed, thus giving some more variety in the chef/smuggler businesses.
The truth in the matter comes from the fact that TKA are not doing what our tanking is supposed be...avoidance. We're supposed to be dodging like mofos out there, but we're not. Melee Defense is no longer our ability to not be hit, it's our strength at taking a punch. That's the main reason why COB has a large difference on our damage taken, not our hits taken. Something needs to change there.
I've always TKM as an annoyance. We're quick, nimble, with small precise strikes that do little damage, but we keep the attention on us so our friends can do the massive amounts of damage they need to. In the meantime, we need to keep that mob really pissed off that he can't hit the small squishy thing in front of it.
The fact is As a master of a martial art, we should need to be able to take hits, It should be to hard to hit us for it to matter much
Martimus
Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:09 pm
#15
Kakabus wrote:Armor break reduction slices nerf jedi more than it did TKM's. Most TKM's have a secondary profession that can wear armor. While jedi got the shaft. But that is a good thing though.
Jedi fight mostly ranged opponents atm (BH is the most popular non-jedi class), so they do not care about their def and lack of AB resists as much. It is their AB attack against RANGED opponents which is being shafted in the same way as us. In general, most melee players still rely on TK def, and Ranged players wear armor.
If we duel or PVP a Jedi, then yes we can wear armor with AB resists, and they can not, so we will get an edge on a defender. The problem is that by wearing armor (at MTK) you are not better then 0.1.0.0 TK. That is a lot of points to waste, that we can put to better use.
The way I look at it, is we are getting shafted either way. The AB resist thing should be on top ten TK and Swordsman issue list. (Rifle kills Swords without AB in terms of dmg output)
keenism
Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:15 am
#16
Pretty much sums my feelings up. Perhaps the corro could confront the devs on this? Though he does seem to be rather innactive.(forgive me if im wrong)
<edit> In reply to Martimus' first post.
Message Edited by keenism on 07-20-2005 08:17 AM
Daikatsu
Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:12 am
#17
TIA will not be boosted. Do not, under any circumstances, ever think that TIA will be as good as crafted armor in PVP. It won't be by designer intent. It was meant to give us a unique look and feel to unarmed (and unarmored now) fighting. If you're out wrecking some PVE places, then TIA is more than sufficient. If you're PVPing, use your second mastery to wear armor with armor break resistance.
TKAs are now as independant as Rangers wish they were. We have no need for weapons, armor, or doctors to heal wounds. We could live our entire lives out of a hut near Chaolt on Lok and only need a trip into the city for food and drink. This is perfectly acceptable in PVE. In PVP, you cannot have a free uber class...jedi excepted (because the jedi are the damn exception to every rule that makes any sense...but that's another rant for another thread).
TKAs are now as independant as Rangers wish they were. We have no need for weapons, armor, or doctors to heal wounds. We could live our entire lives out of a hut near Chaolt on Lok and only need a trip into the city for food and drink. This is perfectly acceptable in PVE. In PVP, you cannot have a free uber class...jedi excepted (because the jedi are the damn exception to every rule that makes any sense...but that's another rant for another thread).
keenism
Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:54 am
#18
I dont know about you, but I did not get tka for the "freebies." Screw powerbost, screw meditation, screw free armor, screwno weapons.WE are supposed to be the BEST tanks...which we arent. ANY other melee with our cob and decent armor is BETTER....that is the problem, and it isnt right.
<edit> typo
Message Edited by keenism on 07-20-2005 10:55 AM
Martimus
Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:58 pm
#19
Daikatsu wrote:
TIA will not be boosted. Do not, under any circumstances, ever think that TIA will be as good as crafted armor in PVP. It won't be by designer intent. It was meant to give us a unique look and feel to unarmed (and unarmored now) fighting. If you're out wrecking some PVE places, then TIA is more than sufficient. If you're PVPing, use your second mastery to wear armor with armor break resistance.
TKAs are now as independant as Rangers wish they were. We have no need for weapons, armor, or doctors to heal wounds. We could live our entire lives out of a hut near Chaolt on Lok and only need a trip into the city for food and drink. This is perfectly acceptable in PVE. In PVP, you cannot have a free uber class...jedi excepted (because the jedi are the damn exception to every rule that makes any sense...but that's another rant for another thread).
No one is asking for an Uber Class. I do not believe that we should go back to our uh3 spamming days. I do however think that we should fulfill our role as best tanks in the game. (at MTK lvl) I do not want to rely on another profession to be the best tank and wear armor.
Other professions can make up by not having a pure defensive profession like TK by wearing armor. (They have other cool skills to make up for it). While doing this, they should never be as good at it as the class which should be "THE BEST TANK IN THE GAME". I agree that not wearing armor is convenient and self sufficient and cheap, (and is my personal preference) but it does not make us "THE BEST TANKS IN THE GAME". If you have enough money to buy/maintain armor 0.1.0.0 TK will beat MTK every time, because they can just get more skils without sacrificing their defense. You must see a problem with this.
Rofl...if I type "The Best tanks in the game" one more time....
Kakabus
Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:46 pm
#20
keenism wrote:
I dont know about you, but I did not get tka for the "freebies." Screw powerbost, screw meditation, screw free armor, screwno weapons.WE are supposed to be the BEST tanks...which we arent. ANY other melee with our cob and decent armor is BETTER....that is the problem, and it isnt right.
typo
Message Edited by keenism on 07-20-200510:55 AM
Sorry but Master Doc is the best tank by far in this game. He can also wear AB resistant armor to better his tanking ability. Battle armor can get 7k/5k (either way kin/energy) or uber rebel armor that i've heard can get to 7.5k/7.5k or better. And Jedi got the biggest shaft since they cant wear armor : ). Too many jedi anyways. But if you truly want to tank go tkm/mdoc get uber AB sliced battle armor and be the tank you want to be. But thinking TIA should be just as uber as crafted and sliced armor would be a joke. Then everybody would be tkm's and AS and Smugglers would quit.
UberNinjaOfDoom
Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:52 pm
#21
Kakabus wrote:
keenism wrote:
I dont know about you, but I did not get tka for the "freebies." Screw powerbost, screw meditation, screw free armor, screw no weapons. WE are supposed to be the BEST tanks...which we arent. ANY other melee with our cob and decent armor is BETTER....that is the problem, and it isnt right.typoMessage Edited by keenism on 07-20-200510:55 AM
Sorry but Master Doc is the best tank by far in this game. He can also wear AB resistant armor to better his tanking ability. Battle armor can get 7k/5k (either way kin/energy) or uber rebel armor that i've heard can get to 7.5k/7.5k or better. And Jedi got the biggest shaft since they cant wear armor : ). Too many jedi anyways. But if you truly want to tank go tkm/mdoc get uber AB sliced battle armor and be the tank you want to be. But thinking TIA should be just as uber as crafted and sliced armor would be a joke. Then everybody would be tkm's and AS and Smugglers would quit.
Let me put it this another way:
In the same armor MSWORD/MDOC/0.1.0.0 TK will ALWAYS beat MTK/MDOC/0.0.1.0 SW.
MTK is a waste of SKILLPOINTS with armor on...how can you justify that..
Message Edited by UberNinjaOfDoom on 07-20-2005 07:55 PM
Daikatsu
Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:58 am
#22
Martimus wrote:
No one is asking for an Uber Class. I do not believe that we should go back to our uh3 spamming days. I do however think that we should fulfill our role as best tanks in the game. (at MTK lvl) I do not want to rely on another profession to be the best tank and wear armor.
We ARE the best tanks in the game. No one can take abuse like a TKM. Our Improved Center of Being absolutely allows us the ability to take a lot more damage than we have any right to. It's possible to solo a lot of the content with TKM thanks to our defensive capabilities. However, our aggro control needs to be worked on, and that's a different issue from tanking. We need to be able to keep the mobs on us so we take the abuse others cannot. And with four taunt bonus boxes doing seemingly nothing at all, someone from the dev team needs to address this issue. Our problem is not tanking, it's aggro control.
Cdapolito
Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:45 am
#23
Unfortunately I have to agree with MDoc being tops... especially when he just stands there in high end armor and spams heals on himself... he will maintain agro above all others (except maybe Snipershot) and still live (the epitome of tanking)
Kakabus wrote:
keenism wrote:
I dont know about you, but I did not get tka for the "freebies." Screw powerbost, screw meditation, screw free armor, screwno weapons.WE are supposed to be the BEST tanks...which we arent. ANY other melee with our cob and decent armor is BETTER....that is the problem, and it isnt right.
typo
Message Edited by keenism on 07-20-200510:55 AM
Sorry but Master Doc is the best tank by far in this game. He can also wear AB resistant armor to better his tanking ability. Battle armor can get 7k/5k (either way kin/energy) or uber rebel armor that i've heard can get to 7.5k/7.5k or better. And Jedi got the biggest shaft since they cant wear armor : ). Too many jedi anyways. But if you truly want to tank go tkm/mdoc get uber AB sliced battle armor and be the tank you want to be. But thinking TIA should be just as uber as crafted and sliced armor would be a joke. Then everybody would be tkm's and AS and Smugglers would quit.
Martimus
Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:16 pm
#24
Daikatsu wrote:
Martimus wrote:
No one is asking for an Uber Class. I do not believe that we should go back to our uh3 spamming days. I do however think that we should fulfill our role as best tanks in the game. (at MTK lvl) I do not want to rely on another profession to be the best tank and wear armor.
We ARE the best tanks in the game. No one can take abuse like a TKM. Our Improved Center of Being absolutely allows us the ability to take a lot more damage than we have any right to. It's possible to solo a lot of the content with TKM thanks to our defensive capabilities. However, our aggro control needs to be worked on, and that's a different issue from tanking. We need to be able to keep the mobs on us so we take the abuse others cannot. And with four taunt bonus boxes doing seemingly nothing at all, someone from the dev team needs to address this issue. Our problem is not tanking, it's aggro control.
I think you are missing the point on some subtle level... When wearing top quality armor (specially with AB resists) 0.1.0.0 TK is the best tank in the game, and not MTK like it should be !!!! (and you can hold agro much better by simply picking up high dmg swords). Please explain to me how this is not the case...
I am not disagreeing that DOC/MTK (for example) is a fantastic tank with no armor. It is a great,flexible and cheap way to go. Just trying to make a point that pragmatically MTK is useless in armor, and not the best tank.
Daikatsu
Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:13 pm
#25
The best quality armor I've seen is not 6000 straight down the line. I've seen some 6500 primus layered armor with 5500 elemental resist. You may think this is better, but in my view I see my TIA armor as the best all-around armor on my server. I've been poking through the vendor search every couple days looking at armor and I don't see anything surpassing TIA. Now, if you do a lot of mob fighting, some assault can hit 7000 kinetic resists, but not all mobs do kinetic. I see TIA as more suited for the general environment.
Now, if you're talking about specific environment I can show you a few builds that are good for that specific scenario. But in most cases, TKMs are a more universally suited tank, and that makes it better IMO.
Now, if you're talking about specific environment I can show you a few builds that are good for that specific scenario. But in most cases, TKMs are a more universally suited tank, and that makes it better IMO.
keenism
Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:33 pm
#26
So what is the point of going TKA at all when you can just grab Swordsman(MUCH higher damage) and improved center unless you can't afford armor? I don't recall the devs assigning us the "cheapass" role among the professions.