Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Anyone who says tka is overpowered is obviously not a tka PROS vs CONS
"another HUGE PRO, to TKA is the base skills costs.
for example, 92 points are required to Master TK, while something like doctor, BH, CH or even BE, require many many more points to be stuffed into requirements.
Apples and oranges my friend. Don't compare TKA against any non-melee profession unless you want to get into a larger debate about melee vs ranged. If you want to do that, take your argument to the brawler board where it belongs.
Also, don't compare TKA against non-combat professions like CH or doctor because they don't even compete with each other.
Atama wrote:
"another HUGE PRO, to TKA is the base skills costs.
for example, 92 points are required to Master TK, while something like doctor, BH, CH or even BE, require many many more points to be stuffed into requirements.
Apples and oranges my friend. Don't compare TKA against any non-melee profession unless you want to get into a larger debate about melee vs ranged. If you want to do that, take your argument to the brawler board where it belongs.
Also, don't compare TKA against non-combat professions like CH or doctor because they don't even compete with each other.
so you want me to compare only melee to melee? I thought this was the starwars universe.. blasters, lightsabers, walking rugs etc..
It's all combat, it's all the same.
Pistoleers have great dodge? yes, not bad 105. Fencers have 125, TK's no dodge... they don't need it. dizzy/kd/kick the hell out of target, target gets up, rinse, repeat..
personally I have not seen a lot of success with my master pistoleer and his dodging skills.. as I still get the snot kicked out of me on a regular basis by npc monster mobs.. let alone in pvp. (i'm talking pistoleer defenses here, nothing about my offense or "skills"). I don't expect to stand still and stay in melee range... I run, I kite, I get dizzied, and kd.
I don't want to turn this into a melee vs ranged debate, I stated that it was a HUGE Pro to the TKM that they only have to invest a very few points into requirements to be successful. but I guess this IS really true of any melee profession really for that matter (I'm not picking on you). I guess another pro to TKM is that your profession actually works lol
. I still say there is something horribly wrong when a TK based class can solo something like a krayt (and I've seen it), meanwhile me and my pistoleer dodge get nothing but massive teethmarks left in my by pretty much everything bigger than a pack of rancors. I'll chalk that up to melee mitigation and melee toughness though for tk's.. There is a reason probably 80% of the combat templates in this game have a tka base.
as far as the de10 comment is concerned.. right, let me LOOT the schematics.. LOOT the barrel.. fight a krayt and be lucky enough to get good quality tissue.. then take it to a weaponsmith and have him charge me my left testicle to build it (because I must be rich if I have this stuff).. meanwhile a tkm can do just fine with a 210'ish vk that costs 50k TOPS.
Also, ham cost of a TKA, it's not the mind that is the problem, it's action.
and for Pro : toughness, 53% damage reduction in melee. It isn't bad.
Speed is a pro and a cons.
TKA is fast low damage dealing, ham cost isn't very high (well depend of your VK), very accurate and high defense.
His role is to be a tank, front line, taking damage and keeping the aggro.
And it's designed to do that.
People should just look at how mobs fight, use ranged when there is a range and switch to melee when they have to.
This would end the melee vs ranged recurent rant.
But the specials of a TKA, and the HAM cost of the VK are specifically designed to lower Action facter than health and mind.
Your stats doesn't change that, doc buff does.
It's the same for all professions, that's why some think that some profession are overpowered.
The truth is they are not, doc buff are, and as the main ham cost of those supposedly overpowered profession are the one buffed by doc, they seem overpowered, but they aren't.
Fix the problem where it is, and it is not in each profession design, it's in doc buff.
It's like swordsmen complaining about the midn ham cost of their special and how it prevent them to have a chance in PvP. That is true, but only if they use a hammer. They can do as good or higher damage with lower mind cost by using other weapons. But they'll do kinetic damage.
Atama wrote:
Actually it's not true that all melee professions have their best attack as a random pool attack. A fencer's two best attacks, both of which do 4x damage, are 1HandHit3 and 1HandBodyHit3 (the latter is a strike against Health). As a fencer myself, I use 1HandHit3 pretty much exclusively when doing damage. Actually 1HandHit3 is a 5.0x modifier while 1handBody3 is a 3.5x modifier. ALL single pool attacks are less damagethan the master level attacks but concentrate on one pool.
Here's a good PRO/CON list when comparing TKA against other melee (and this should be more accurate):
Pros
Can target any pool
Can land every state
Highest toughness
Gets meditate
High ranged/melee defense
Fastest profession
200+ unarmed damage bonus modifier (only melee prof. with this mod)
Cons
All pool-specific attacks are weak
No area effect state attacks (all other melee professions have at least one)
Weak evasion abilities; defense acuity doesn't seem to work well
Only one damage type
Low state defenses
No bleed attacks could technically say that the bleed from unarmedhit3 is a bleed attack but we wont go there.
For pretty much every advantage we have there's a corresponding disadvantage. This is why TKA works so well, and why it's considered one of the most balanced combat professions.
Some notes on Trucho's lists... Being able to KD and lunge isn't an advantage since you can get both from brawler, which means every melee profession gets a KD and a lunge. I KD things all the time as a fencer, using 1handlunge2 (it's one of my favorite fencer moves). Also, anything with low armor and low defense against kinetic will fall to any melee profession because every melee profession uses mostly kinetic weapons.
The KD is from MASTER brawler. This is the Teras Kasi forum not the Brawler forum. TK's get a low and advanced KD in their profession, not an outside source. And yes most things have medium to low kinetic until you get to high level content which has high resists to about every damage type. The 200+ unarmed damage bonus makes up for that...alot.
"Actually 1HandHit3 is a 5.0x modifier while 1handBody3 is a 3.5x modifier. ALL single pool attacks are less damage than the master level attacks but concentrate on one pool."
According to the Fencer FAQs that is the case, but that particular FAQ topic is 9 months old. The SWG damage calculator insists that they both do 4x damage. I haven't had a chance to compare the two because I don't have 1HandHit3 yet.
"200+ unarmed damage bonus modifier (only melee prof. with this mod)"
That is not a valid pro, because even with that damage modifier our VKs do less damage than 2 hand swords and pikes. Being average in something is not an advantage.
"could technically say that the bleed from unarmedhit3 is a bleed attack but we wont go there."
Yeah, a 1 point bleed that lands 5% of the time at random doesn't count.
"The KD is from MASTER brawler. This is the Teras Kasi forum not the Brawler forum. TK's get a low and advanced KD in their profession, not an outside source. And yes most things have medium to low kinetic until you get to high level content which has high resists to about every damage type. The 200+ unarmed damage bonus makes up for that...alot."
In my opinion, a person with a melee profession who doesn't take master brawler is not taking advantage of their profession. As a fencer I use Lunge2 constantly. Every melee profession has brawler, so brawler is part of every melee profession.
Let me ask... How does an unarmed damage bonus help when you're fighting something with 100% kinetic resistance?