Teras Kasi Archive

---

Jammyn wrote:

I'll tell you that ourtake as far as TKAs go is that you have some balance issues, but overall you are overpowered, not under. Can you explain to me why that is incorrect? What are you measuring against, exactly. (Pistoleers in PvP? PvE when compared against a comparably advanced carbineer or pikeman? What, exactly, are you using as your baseline?)

I won't go into the overpowered vs. underpowered argument. But I can see at least 2 major concerns that make TKA's feel less useful or underpowered:

1) High End Encounters -- Granted, I have not personally taken part in many of these. But I HAVE felt the pain of being one-shot by some high level monsters. An example - Myself (TKA Master) and a Novice Pistoleer/Novice CH (he had Healthshot 2 and 2 creatures out -- GSP and one other) and a Novice Medic (not sure of skills, but healed for very little on average) decided to attempt a Tusken King. The Pistoleer pulled with Healthshot 1 and waiting for the King to leave the camp. Then he put the pet on the King. The novice medic was sparingly healing the pet while they both took potshots at the King. To 'do my part' I charged in to melee the king -- and died in one hit after landing 2-3 hits of my own. The Pistoleer, pets and Novice Medic managed to bleed shot the king and kite him the rest of the way, killing him off.

Now, this was to illustrate a point -- in order to be a TKA I have to engage things at melee range. If I engage certain things at melee range, I am pretty much guaranteeing myself a one-hit death. Because I cannot contribute, I feel underpowered. This is an issue with ALL Melee..not just TKA.

2) PvP -- Ranged beats Melee. I can accept this within reason. However, being kited endlessly by someone of obviously lesser skills (not the person themselves, but the characters skill progression) with no chance to win is frustrating and makes you feel underpowered. Getting picked off at range by a marksman when I am not aware or fighting someone else is obviously acceptable. Having a novice marksman just run circles and potshot you to death while you are (essentially) powerless to do anything about it is sure to frustrate anyone. I know we do have some tools at our disposal -- Burst Run, Lunge, Knockdown -- but lets face it, they are currently inadequate. This makes TKAs feel underpowered. I really think allowing all melee to run 'a little' faster than our ranged counterparts would help a bit -- it would allow us to have the chance to get into melee range. Obviously that may create other issues and is just a suggestion. A Master TKA should have no peer except someone else who has mastered their combat profession as well. (I realize that is saying a lot -- but it goes to balance issues. A novice marksman should not be able to 'easily' kill a Master Anything.)

Just my 2c worth about why TKAs feel 'underpowered' while you perceive us as 'overpowered'. It is not necessarily a comparison against another specific class in my mind, but rather the observation that people of lesser skills (in terms of training skill points) can be more effective than we are in PvP or PvE.

---

Well said.

hi ralph, i just saw a picture of you. now i know why you are so angry and take it out on the tka.

---

Holocron wrote: My replies in Yellow

OK, let me start by saying that we are positive that these changes will need iteration, but that's also why we are posting them as proposals so you can sanity check them:

• Across the board action cost reduction (Not changing knockdowns)


• Improved chance of a defensive move firing (General Combat change)


• Vibroknucklers




• Increasing max range on vibroknucklers to 5 meters Does this mean that fencers and other melee classes wil also see a larger max range. A fencer is at 5m already, I mpretty sure a sword is longer then a brassknuckle.


• Changing Health Cost from 32..59 to 18..36 (better)good


• Changing Action Cost from 29..46 to 30..54 (different)gooder


• Changing Mind Cost from 15..29 to 18..36 (different)gooderest


• These values are modified to be slightly higher than the default unarmed move costs as this is a damage increasing weapon. Because the move costs are being decreased significantly, this should be a much smoother transition.

Thoughts?

---

---

Holocron wrote:

---

MaknarSerak wrote:

---

Holocron wrote:

That's what lunge is supposed to be.

---

Supposed to be?

So can I take it from that statement that lunge is not working correctly either, or not the way you intended anyway, and is being worked on so we can close distances on ranged players?

Or is it staying as is?

---

If I said "is" then I am sure you would correct me saying that it is ineffective. So I said "supposed to be." Chalk it up to my bein gunshy at this point.

My impression is that it works fine. Yes, the opponent can get back up, but in the meantime you've had a chance to do stuff to them, as with knockdown....

---

Apparently you haven't been playing the game or something. At all times I've tried lunge, i've always stopped and then proceded with the next hit, After they got up. Unless this has been changed in the last month or so, you ought to be more knowledgable, or at least talk to someone on your 'side' and find out what the heck.

geez.

And I respected you. =/

"Pistoleers in PvP? PvE when compared against a comparably advanced carbineer or pikeman? What, exactly, are you using as your baseline?)"

I like this comparison. It seems all you TKA have just forgotten you're not the ONLY melee class in the game. Stop being so ignorant and look at the other melee classes. (And that's all it is, you think you're underpowered, but you are really not comparing to the other melee classes.)

Pikeman vs. TKA for example:

-PvE: Sure Pikeman can still knockdown nicely (and do a good amount of damage) But a LOT slower and innacurate. However, from experience being a Pikeman, grouped with a TKA. I'll do all the knockdowns, while the TKA does a nice consistant 200-500 or so damage every 2 seconds and I'll get about 25% of the experience. I'm not talking about advanced TKAs here either,hell a novice one can do a number on soaking up all theexperience like a spongue grouped with a way more advanced Pikeman for example.(This may be a whooole different issue though) So TKA's reign supreme here.

-TKA Stats: Apparently none of you have actually compared your TKA stats to Pikeman here for example (since that's the comparison I'm using) TKA's get HUGE stat boosts comparing. I mean come on, your toughness is superior by a huge margin. (Especially at master) +1 TKA here as well

-PvP: Not something I'm totally educated in, since I don't do it as much, but TKA's also destroy Pikeman or other melee classes in this respect as far as I know. Unless we can get the first knockdown in, and ONLY if we can do that.

So all I'm trying to say, from observations, and my own experiences, is that I think you TKA's here complaining are blowing it way out of proportion and not looking at all the facts or just plain ignorant to them. I'm not even complaining about the Pikeman profession, I enjoy it, but I dont enjoy whining TKAs.

However, that knockdown cost is a bit extreme, maybe -400-450 would be more appropriate to appease the larger community of TKA.

Just my 2 cents

Holo said:

Can you explain to me why that is incorrect? What are you measuring against, exactly. (Pistoleers in PvP? PvE when compared against a comparably advanced carbineer or pikeman? What, exactly, are you using as your baseline?)

Well, I was upset at first with the changes, and still am to a degree, but all in all, I think we are ok in PvE. Sure we can't solo stuff over white con, and we can't handle more than one mob anymore (unless low blues), but as long as other classes are going to be scaled accordingly, no problemo here.

My problem (and comparison) is this :

My stints at PvP have been, well, abysmal. Versus an Expert BH (myself bing 1 4 4 4 in the TKA tree), at point blank range, I did not do more than 80-90 dmg per hit versus this unarmored opponent. Between the the 2 incaps and final incap/deathblow, I attempted 5 or 6 knockdown moves, none of which knocked him down. All the mean while he is chest shot'n me for 120-150 dmg (and I"m wearing fairly decent padded armor). I'm assuming that there needs to be some tweaking (read - nerfing of the BH) since at point blank range, he should have been at a disadvantage, not the other way around.

My next encounter was with an pistoleer. As soon as I spotted him, I started running towards him, and within 2-3 seconds I was incap'd and db'd. I scrolled back and saw that he used fan shot on me back to back doing 560 and 590 dmg. I'm going to assume this needs tweaking as well (read - nerfing of the pistoleer). 580 damagewith the 75% reduction in pvp?? Insane man!

At this point I logged off, and pointed my web browser to theweb based3rdpartycharacter builder to figure out what I could to to salvage my character.

This is what I am basing my comparison on. Sure, sure.. don't bring a knife to a gun fight... but when I get my hands on you, you gonna go down, that's what TKA is all about, or so I thought.

other than doing more damage than us the other melee classes also hit one pool.

and with a kd they can actually use pikeman are pretty well off compared to tka, of course all melee classes are horribly broken comparedto something like pistoleer.

NO ya just dont understand TKA 3melon, we're horrible now, not too bad but got messed up in patch. I've been doing pike for a while after patch and its nice, except like you said the slow attack speed. But having an area attacking knockdown that costs way less than ours, despite slow attack speed or slow accuracy, is still bunk. Our knockdown still misses alot of the time, and if ya do more than one attempt at one in a fight than you've messed up your ham bar something nice. Whereas if a pike misses, it aint too shabby. I've finally come to the decision that we should just get rid of all knockdowns. That'd fix a whole lot, or make all knockdowns cost the same amount of **edit** ham for all classes. Kinda stupid that we're the only ones getting screwed on this knockdown issue.... Pikemens tight by the way i likes...

Holocron,

I like most of the changes, but a few should be discused further.

1. Knockdown. I propose that KD have it's HAM cost reduced by half. It seems reasonable that knocking something down while unarmed wouldnt take any more effort or energy than hitting someone with the butt of a pistol (pistoleer KD). Even if HAM cost was half of what it is now, it would stillcost twice as much as it did before the patch which seems fair to me.

2. Vibroknuckler Range. There is no logical reason that holding something in my hand would make my arm shorter... VK range should be the same as unarmed.

3. Ham cost changes for VK. Changing VKs to save us health has no efect on there usability, however increasing action and mind cost is the oposit of what would make them usable. If the effect of raising action and health costs a few points is as minor a change as you say it is,... then why do it at all? If the HAM costs of specials is being reduced as much as youhave stated,then I thinkthat VK HAM cost will no longer be an issue and is fine as is.

I think that my proposals work for the majority of TKs, at least on the items the Dev team are proposing changes to.

---

Kiljoy001 wrote:

---

Holocron wrote:

---

MaknarSerak wrote:

---

Holocron wrote:

That's what lunge is supposed to be.

---

Supposed to be?

So can I take it from that statement that lunge is not working correctly either, or not the way you intended anyway, and is being worked on so we can close distances on ranged players?

Or is it staying as is?

---

If I said "is" then I am sure you would correct me saying that it is ineffective. So I said "supposed to be." Chalk it up to my bein gunshy at this point.

My impression is that it works fine. Yes, the opponent can get back up, but in the meantime you've had a chance to do stuff to them, as with knockdown....

---

Apparently you haven't been playing the game or something. At all times I've tried lunge, i've always stopped and then proceded with the next hit, After they got up. Unless this has been changed in the last month or so, you ought to be more knowledgable, or at least talk to someone on your 'side' and find out what the heck.

geez.

And I respected you. =/

---

After reading a certain posts I have regain that respect

One thing that hurts melee types more than anything from ranged attacks is the fact that LOS doesn't work except for some trees, lairs, and -some- buildings.

There is nothing to hide behind.

Mountains can be shot straight through eventhough the blasts impact the terrain surface.

perhaps knock down could be returned to what it was and simply put a timer on knock down as a skill?

asherons call 2 did this - it might work. *shrug* you knock down - wait 10 second - then you may knock down again. fixes the abuse, and yet leaves a useful skill that can be extremely adventageous when performed at the right moment.

Direct timers on combat moves suck. Give the player a state effect that lasts for 15 seconds, but don't put a timer on KD.

"Hi, Mr. Add, glad you could jump into the fight with me. I can't knock you down at the moment because I just knocked down the creature that I'm fighitng. Please feel free to tear me a new one. Thanks!"