Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Some proposals for TKA
Dumahim wrote:
SDrugger wrote:
I am stoked that the Devs are here listening to you guys, and I am stoked that so many of you know all this technical sheeott... nice work, keep it up!
I am still advancing (very slowly) in the TKA tree, with the hopes that you all will provide the info to the devs to get them to make it fun to punch things again.
lol. what have you been reading?
Idiot.
Are the Devsnot replying to posts and considering changes? You know this game can have content CHANGED, right?. It is not a static environment.
If you hate it, don't play... cancel your account and come back in a year, when everything is a little more "stable"... I will still be here... or better yet become a pistoleer ot carbiner so you can power level, then cry when they put that into line and say how now they should give you all your TKA xp back, because you didn't think they would balance it.
Reread my post, guy... I said I was happy that there are those out there that have all the technical knowledge about the class SO THEY COULD recommend positive changes to the devs, and that the devs are actually listening.
Oh, maybe I should've said, if somebody asks for something on this board, and you don't implement it tomorrow I will cancel my account and go antagonize some developers in the next new MMORPG's beta.
Major thing is with the latest changes it appears to be you are punishing us for advancing in the Profession. I agree KD needed to be fixed, but not a 500-700% increase in cost. KD1 should be higher than KD2, as you advance in the profession a few things happen....1 you become more powerful and 2 the costs for moves should be reduced. Does this mean we should be able to perform KD2, Headshot, Unarmed Hit 3 for almost no cost? No, it should have an approprite cost for the level you have obtained. As it stands now I can get the same effect from UA Lunge 2 and Dizzy hit as KD2 for less of a HAM cost. It's having the same results, 2 seperate attacks and it's cheaper than the 1 attack?
Possible solution might be to lower the HAM costs on our special attacks as you increase in level, ie KD1, UA Hit2, Leg hit and etc.. should be lowered in cost to perform. You have already learned those skills and advanced your mind and body as you get closer to Master TKA so why would it have the same cost to perform those at Int level as a Master or Expert?
A master of any profession is suppose to be extremely dangerous and deadly with what they specialize in. Are we overpowered as masters of unarmed combat? I would have to say no, we are were we should be for being a master. The same would be true with a Master Rifleman, they should be the uncontested master of long range attack. The balancing of the classes should come from the Professions not from just the one you feel is unabalanced. Confused? For example should a Rifleman be more deadlier than a Pistoleer at range combat? Absolutely when at rifle distances but the opposite should be true if the Rifleman is within the Pistoleer's ideal attack range. Like it has been stated if I bring a knife to a gun fight I'm asking for trouble, but if someone brings a gun to a knife fight why would I have to be the one who is unbalanced? It's all a matter of who's terms you are fighting on if that makes enough sense to ya.
Lets take a look at melee class vs melee for a minute. If KD is overpowered/unbalanced is polearm sweep overpowered too? or how about 2 hand sweep? As a master in Polearm Brawler Tree I was doing more damage with my special moves than I am currently doing as a TKA with Vibro Knucklers, same is true with 2 hand. All these melee classes have some form or another to essentially knock eachother to the ground. TKA will have a chance to hit any of these more than the other due to weapon attack speeds, but what do ya know 2 hand melee gets swords that deal just as much damage as TKA and at the same speed. Polearm I could essentially do a 6K special attack hit in PvE with the enemy using a rifle at Master Polearm in Brawler. But Pikeman pay the price for such damage with speed. So the balance is a tradeoff between the 3, UA has fast attack speed medium damage, 2 hand gets medium damage with attack speed slower than TKA and Pikeman gets high damage with medium attack speed, all of which gets defensive skills appropriate for thie class to help defend against the different melee styles.
If you honestly believe we can participate in PvE with little to no risk you obviously haven't played that much. Special moves and KD are not a 100% success chance to hit with. Creatures in the higher levels have 10-15% kinetic effectiveness with around 10K HAM as well as hitting for 500. Here we are with around 1,100 HAM on average trying to kill a creature or enemy with 8-12x that of ours with high Kinetic resistance with specials that are not guaranteed to land every single time. Some of thesefights takes several minutes to finish due to Kinetic effectiveness....hitting for an average of 50 on a 8-10K HAM mob is a long fight. I have died numerous times hunting solo using specials before the patch due to the inaccuracy/creature defense.
It might be time to look at thingsdifferently; the problem might not be with the profession but with the creatures. Maybe their defense is not what it should be, maybe they are more susceptible to knockdown than they should be, the list can go on and on. Gonna end it here before I start needingto Index =p
Thats like nerfing us again. Better solution...
Make KD do no damage at all in fact0 damage. Lower HAM to what it was pre nerf.
And you guys got to address our lack of defense problem and that useless meditate skill tree. As well as others in the petition.
This what you just proposed has been tested. Increasing those numbers is just simply us damaging outselves more using KD. Do we really hit ourselves in the head when we try to KD our opponent or what?
Afra_Lyon wrote:
I sorry Holo, I'm just not reassured. It seems to me that you are making more mistakes then you are solving. As TK's, we are in the thick of the battle, and as such we and all other meleers should have the lowest special move HAM cost. As it is now, especially with the 600 HAM cost for knockdown, we have the highest.
Also, why are you not extending the range of VK's to 8m, same as regular unarmed. That would be a much more effective fix for what all TK's see as a bug in the profession.
The former, because knockdown can kill anything in the game with little risk?
Exactly our problems with the other professions that have it....... and can do it from a ranged attack with very very little HAm costs.....especially since our defenses (in this case Combat Equilibrium) seem to never factor in. I'd even settle for keeping our KD costs where they are at as long as everyone else's was changed to the same, especially with their weapon equipped. Especially seeing asSOME (I'm not even gonna mention which one, but its melee also) classes can do about 6-7K (yes 6000-7000) damage while doing an AREA knockdown with a dizzy effect....where's the balance there?
Want to solve a problem? Here is how:
Increase our defense slightly.
Increase our damage without Knucklers to a point where its the same. Lower HAM costs to like 20/20/20.
Get rid of VK's.
Problem solved.
HOLOCRON:
I do believe that when the game first came out, knockdown was too powerful, and it was nerfed rightly so. But was it the correct nerf? I dont believe so.
There is an alternate solution to nerfing knockdown's HAM cost... but it does require more work by the devs, so it wouldnt be as favourable to fix. When a skill is too powerful vs very powerful mobs... simply increase the defense of the mobs vs knockdown. A kimogila shouldnt be able to be knocked down... neither should jedi or anything significantly bigger than the player.
The problem is, as a class, we need this ability to level and gain experience. There were some who abused it to solo big monsters for loot or praise, thereby getting us nerfed... but the rest of us needed it to level. The fact of the matter is that ranged classes can kill mobs solo. Anything (within reason) that doesnt shoot can be killed by a ranged user with some effort. By using traps to snare, or warning shot, whatever... it can be done. They have zero risk of getting hurt if they just keep running from it while shooting. (I realize some things run faster, but you obviously dont pick on those). We don't have this option. As a TKA and master Ranger, traps offer me near zero use when fighting... it limits us to what we can do.
Knockdown was what we used to level. We need some of it back to get the kind of experience that other classes are able to amass. Give most high level mobs 100% knockdown defense if you want... but for the lower level stuff... getting knockdown back to what it was last week would be fine, not broken (since we still couldnt kill more than one mob at a time) and I am sure most TKA's would be VERY VERY happy while not throwing off the balance of the game.
Most people are whining because they were too poweful to begin with and they want that back. That isnt going to happen. Cancel however many accounts you want it isnt going to work. If everyone in america protested to legalize murder, it still wouldn't happen. You are being unreasonable to want knockdown back to what it was... but you could fix what the half-intelligent tka population wants by this proposed fix.
Return knockdown with slight increase in HAM.
Totally remove knockdown from uber mobs.
Fixed
I know this is off topic of all the suggestions on how to fix our class.
Anyways, I suggest giving our corrospondent a TKM character in the Test Center so he can check out thepatches before they go live.
Sorry in advance if they already have implemented this
Streetracer81, I agree with a lot of the posts here, but you are either not a TKA Master or are ignorant of your own abilities in meditation! The meditation skill works great!! Wait till you get some more ranks in it before yelling what you did in your earlier post.
Meditation works great although we should advance with the use of meditation, not unarmed.
Yea Raph........
Let's not change knockdown even though thousands of people quit because of that nerf.......
Why do you hate TKA? Your going to lower VK cost in one bar and raise it in the other two! You use the word Different to describe the two changes. I think a more correct word would be Worse (or higher).
Why not talk about changing Knockdown?
As it stands, Master Brawler is superior to TK Master. I have not heard anything from the Devs that say this will change. Why should I stay a TK Master when I only use Brawler moves?
Why can't we fight anything without hurting ourselves?
What about the bugs? Shooting through solid objects...I can strike while running away from but not towards a target...
Why can't we get a response like this? Actual give and take with Devs.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=46180
If your proposal continues the trend, we will lose more then we gain.
Jetti, TKM
Intrepid
ill be brief in my assessment of the current state of things for tka..
devs want melee to not beable to handle gun users when past the 16 meter mark...
that much is fine with me
however.. in all the pvp fights ive had and those ive lost.. have all been within 5 to 10 meters..
and im not kidding here when i tell you that underhand shot and pistol whip is much faster than what we have.. even ualunge1
a serious problem too is that gunners no longer fear us in close.. all they have to do is move away from us..
you say that is what ualunge is supposed to be for.. (to stop them long enough to catch them)
I hate to break it to ya.. UAlunge doesnt stop anyone.. it brings em to a knee.. immediately they can get back up and continue to run.. i mean there isnt any delay like when you go to a knee or prone in normal movements.. they just get back up as fast as they were downed and continue to run.. not to mention the ungodly ham cost for the move itself
as far as not being able to punch while running still baffles me.. and holo i do stand by you bro.. you made me a believer in some things.. but this is one thing that irks me beyond comprehension.. youre tellin me that a rifleman or carbineer who when standing holds a gun in both hands (due to the weight i would imagine) can run half twisted spamming specials with one hand and we cant even punch them in the back of the head while chasing them
i wish i had taken screenshots when vixfirth and i dueled...
he pistol whipped me after we made an agreement not to use knockdowns.. dood did it 20 times! over and over and over non stop.. for some reason i didnt die.. his ham finally was used up and i was able to stand while he could do nothing but fire normally.. i should say action bar.. because his health bar and mind pool was fine.. when i stood up i had maybe a third life in my ham (meaning all bars).. but this nerf or fix was supposed to stop this type of usage..
i fought a bounty hunter on talus named breelee... first at 10 meters.. i closed within 7 meters tried to use KD.. but one blast from what ever gun he had took all 900 of my life and left me incapped..
when i cloned and came back we tried it again this time at 5 meters.. before i could even get the move off and he initiated the duel and the very second i accepted i hit kd.. i was already on the ground from an underhand shot..
these two occurances here tell me and all tka's that we cant even handle gunners at close range
surely this is not what you are intending to do right?
as far as increased defenses to "close" on a gunner.. i dont buy that.. tka is an elite profession but.. its not the end of the skill points.. if people want to be effective they have to learn the other skills too.. other tkas do not agree with this line of thought.. and as such i have totally lost all hope in any correspondant program directed at our profession.. even tho i am learning pistoleer i still carry the title Teras Kasi Warrior because thats what i am and i still walk around with no weapon in my hands
however instead of increased range defence which people can get from other skills if they just do it instead of thinking jet li is realy superfast and can pull apart a gun with his hands.. just allow us to attack while running.. if we can catch the guys with guns then there is no problem right?
but that one handicap will forever haunt us
proposed changes (more realisticly)
1) attack while moving is a must!
2) either up our speed with specials unarmed.. vk's are too risky to use anymore or decrease the speed of the other knockdowns.. we are the melee champs not them!
3)make UAlunge actually work as intended.. it is not stopping anyone from merely continuing to run or the veryleast press the stand up button and continue to run with no slow down what so ever..
4) lower our KD cost to something more realistic.. i mean if a pistoleer can do it 20 times or even 10 times.. and if a bounty hunter can do it with little to no penalty to his ham.. why did we get the slap down?
5) reduce melee damage on prone opponents.. that way you can make 3 and 4 work without hurting anyone else.. keep it near the same as if the opponent was standing.. maybe 10% damage increase instead of 50%?
6) every skill in the meditation line is really useless.. my innate vitalize is better than powerboost and lasts longer too.. and force of will lol so what you get up.. enemy incaps you again just that quick because you have no ham left after using it.. might i suggest something new instead of those skills.. perhaps a speed burst that lasts for 30 seconds that can stack with burst run? hey you can call it power boost! and maybe force of will could work like the innate ability equilibrium when you get up your ham equilizes.. that way if we do get up its not so simple to put us back to incapacitation.. also gives a fightingchance in pvp as the enemy has to get close to db us
number 6 was a lil reaching but its not impossible..
all of these things i proposed do not neccisarily (however its spelled) over power us but what it does is promte caution from gunners to get too close to us and in the thick of faction battles gives us a chance to do something other than die immediately..
thanks for the ear!