Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: What do you want TKAs to be?
Hypatian wrote:
Valkari: So, in your opinion, a teras kasi artist should be a high damage output profession and that's it? We should be able to absorb hits but not dodge them? Frankly, that strikes me as pretty... boring. And not really very martial-artsy. More like boxing than anything else. For unarmed 1-4, that's sort of reasonable, except that the precision isn't there--it's all rough and tumble. But for a Teras Kasi artist, shouldn't there be... well... at least *some* finesse involved?
Really, this is the side of the current TKA profession that I really dislike. Going up and hitting super hard and getting hit and ignoring the blows because I'm apparently so bruised already that I don't feel a thing is... lame.
Sure, it's powerful--but it has no style.
Give me style over raw power any day.
we aren't designed to evade every blow, and become unpenetratable.
1) we are extremly focused, the most focused of all players in the game ( this gives us the ability to be able to wistand hits and keep going) aka toughness. our toughness should be for both ranged and melee, and it should be the best
2) stun and blind is not a tka thing, we dont get these at all at TKA, this comes from brawler, but we do get dizzy, and the reason why we get dizzy is because we hit SO FREAKIN HARD!
you only become dizzy when you receive a hit that woudl basicly 2 shot you.
bottom line we are designed to have WORKING defense, and our defense atm is not working, but dont clowd yourselfs with desires of becoming fencers with dodge. They are the defense characters of this game, and if you want to become a fencer, then drop tk, that is if you want defenses. if you will settle for few defenses and the ability to out damage your oponants, then pick tk.
The tk isn't some bum on the street who learns how to shot a side arm, he is a leathal weapon with his body, and more leathal then even the deadilist of flame throwers and rocket launchers.
this talk about weakest dmg per sec, would ruin the way the class was designed to be.
atone48732 wrote:
Ok so I agree with both of you oh ooo
I do like the Bruce lee idea. I mean a person that can attack that fast and hard should do considerate damage
Ok so maybe not the 250 we get for mastering our profession but anyway
heres where i have to take the last posters side
Give us more dodge and counterattackes
make us actual martial artists I am willing to give up some.. I mean some of our damage to be able to dodge and block attacks and be what wer are a martial artist.Well thats all I have to say for now
aucutaly its not the 250 that we hit so hard, and to be honest the 250 is a tad low for where the tk should be.
we should be around 350 damage mods.
right now the tk is the weakest class in the game in terms of damage. but damage per second we are second best.
add a style into it we are the best, because of our damage mulipliers on our styles, are higher then other melee class's, that is what gives us the damage we see, not our mods persay.
Valkari-TKM wrote:
1) we are extremly focused, the most focused of all players in the game ( this gives us the ability to be able to wistand hits and keep going) aka toughness. our toughness should be for both ranged and melee, and it should be the best
2) stun and blind is not a tka thing, we dont get these at all at TKA, this comes from brawler, but we do get dizzy, and the reason why we get dizzy is because we hit SO FREAKIN HARD!
you only become dizzy when you receive a hit that woudl basicly 2 shot you.
bottom line we are designed to have WORKING defense, and our defense atm is not working, but dont clowd yourselfs with desires of becoming fencers with dodge. They are the defense characters of this game, and if you want to become a fencer, then drop tk, that is if you want defenses. if you will settle for few defenses and the ability to out damage your oponants, then pick tk.
The tk isn't some bum on the street who learns how to shot a side arm, he is a leathal weapon with his body, and more leathal then even the deadilist of flame throwers and rocket launchers.
this talk about weakest dmg per sec, would ruin the way the class was designed to be.
Most martial arts focus on evading/blocking/dodging/counterattackinghits, not being tough enough to take hits. Yes, there are certain disiplines which focus on toughening the body but they are far from a majority. Thusly, I (and many other TKA's) believe TKA should focus on not being hit at all. I mean how many matial artists wear armor? None that I can think of.
As for stun and blind, just because they aren't part of the actual TKA tree doesn't mean they all of a sudden disappear. They're still part of our arsenal and they are percision hits which you view as our great strength. Hitting someone in a soft spot so they become stunned is a percision hit. Hitting someone in their eyes so they become blind is a percision hit. So these attacks fit in perfectly with your view for tera kasi.
Now last thing is you saying we want to be fencers. Well, if I want to be a fencer then you want to be heavy swordsman because those guys are the damage dealers. TKA was never intended to be the damage dealers. We were designed to be the utility class, swordsman are the offensive class and fencer is the defensive class. What I've seen in this thread is a desire to go from a good damage dealing class with good defences to a lowish damage class with great defences. Is this a shift that makes us more like fencers? I'd say yes, but that's because a martial artist should be more like a fencer. Most martial arts focus on defence just like fencing focuses on defence. I mean in the end all we have are our fists and there is only so far that can reasonably take us damage wise.
Ok,
1. We do need some sort of damage other than kinetic(heat knucles, blast knuckles, poison knuckles)
2. We are masters of mind over matter if I'm not mistaken. We're no jedi, but wouldn't it be cool to project our meditate skill in to a combat skill. Mind blast(focus on one opponent and blast him with mental energy, thus putting him in a kneeling position/stun damage(very high HAM cost). nobody would kite us anymore.
3. I think we are fine as far as damage dealt and defensive mods. It's the fact that we have useless specials. I use all of my debuff specials but none of my attack specials except Unnarmed hit 2/3. Why not just take away our crappy attacks and give us my above idea. That would make us happy about not being kited and use up that space of empty attacks.
4. Why don't we have a strictly brawler profession after getting master brawler? The marksman have all sorts of professions they can go to at master. we have none. Why don't we have a, Assassin profession, or a Monk profession? Why don't we have the Barbarian profession. Why can't I put all my points into being a brawler and have a good character, but when I do the same to marksman I can get the best professions in the game.
Sorry for the ranting, it's just I'm sick of being a brawler that has nowhere else to go.
"Light me on fire and I'll still cut your head off"
"A wolf's head can still bite"
Currently, I think TKA is fairly 'balanced' with regard to the other combat professions. The main 'problems' I see I see at the moment are mainly PvP-related.
1) We need to be useful in PvP. I still find it rather absurd that, after months of providing 'feedback', the devs still have not developedany melee-based abilities that will help us (and other melee professions) stand toe-to-toe with ranged fighters in PvP. Sure, we occasionally get lucky with COB, unarmed lunge, and knockdown. But most of the time we're lying flat on our backs, taking a dirt nap, if we decide to go head on against a ranged professional without the element of surprise or thebacking of a large supporting force. Shouldn't we be able to dodge better, resist knockdown better? We can heal our own wounds, boost our HAM bars, but a cowardlyranged fightercanhit us,knock us down,and cause dizzy from50m away without fail? Isn't this just a bit ... well.... ridiculous?
If unarmed lunge is on a 30s timer, in effect making ranged fighters invulnerable (thanks to kiting), then ranged professions SHOULD NOT HAVE AKNOCKDOWN special move. Not only is the notion of a blaster being used for a knockdown just ... well... stupid and ridiculous... it's totally 'unbalancing' when it comes to melee professions and PvP. TKA's have NO chance of stopping a kiting ranged fighter for 30s. What this means is: If we're lucky, we can land a successful hit .. maybe a KD. But our opponent simply stands up and begins his cowardly kiting routine. Now, as everyone knows, most one-on-one fights justdon't last longer than 30s. Thus, in thetime interval we have before we can even land a second attack, we are usually dead, as the ranged professionaly hits us withhigh-damage hits, bleeds, and KD's .... all the while we're running after them, shouting, "Wait, come back, you sissy!!"
Either make us harder to hit, give us a way to stop sissy-boy kiters, or just make us more resistant to knockdown.Where's the glory ofbeing a MASTER TKA when a Novice ranged fighter with a cdef can still KD you from a distance without fail?
This has been the NUMBER ONE problem since release ... yet, the SWG devs have done Jack and **edit** to fix it.
2) Either make our 'other' special moves (combo's and specific HAM targeting moves) more useful, or just freakin' replace them. TKA, despite all of its strengths, still has a big problem with a total lack of diversity. Everyone complains about the old KD/Spitting Rawl combo. What people don't realize is that ... well... we don't have anything else that is of any freaking use, especially in PvP. Ranged professions seem to have a whole bag of tricks ... from KD's to bleeds to all out damage shots to state modifier shots .... (and yet they say we're over-powered) ... but TKA has just one (more or less) useable attack. In PVP, our debuffs are only marginally effective (..if you're only going to get a couple of hits in before the guy runs away, you gotta make sure they count..), and we are frankly quite bland and boring (in my opinion).
Give us more attack 'options' ... make our combo moves worthwhile ....
3) If neither of the two above are addressed, then maybe give TKA some sort of 'stealth' role ... complete with some stealthy abilities that might give them an edge, in both PvE and PvP? Some form of limited invisibility or stealth movement ... who knows? Asof right now, TKA's can be very powerful in PvP ... it's just ... they're not very interesting. Very 'cookie-cutter'. Rather bland. Narrow and limited.
Hmm ...then again, maybe I'm just tired of this game.
Ok so this is what I don't get, WHY THE HECK ARE WE VULNERABLE TO OUR OWN STINKING ATTACK!!!!!! Nobody should ever be able to knock a TK down. We own that attack and I don't care what trickshot crap you are. We shouldn't be able to knock down. Not to mention dizzy. Just give us high resists to our own attacks it only makes sense.
You gotta be crazy to ask for AP1 on special moves only and getting rid of VK's. That is begging for a huge nerf. What will happen is that you will beable to do 5 AP1 type attacks before you incapp yourself and then the rest of your attacks will be useless.
I think you just self nerfed yourself with the request list. The physics of the game are not their to the point that the things you are asking for will actually be any good. At the very least, I hope i finish Master TKA fr the holo before you get any of these changes made.
And yes, this is coming from the old Brawler Correspondent who got VK's nerfed originally.
Yes, I'm the original VK nerf-herder!!
Hmmm... Just went through the last few pages of these.
A. As far as our defensive abilities. I suggest we have a wide array of defensive mods, some block, some counter attack, some dodge. All these are viable options in hand to hand combat. Leave parrying to fencers (even though its the general consensus that they should dodge, this really doesnt make any sense. I took fencing, its about parrying/counterattacking more than dodging), blocking to swordsman, and toughness to pikeman.
B. I would like to push for a stance system. Heavy didnt really mention this in his post (which was excellent by the way Heavy, great work). A lot of people have obviously desired strategy over hard hitting or special spamming, I think this would be a great way to give it to them. Give a special stance for each tree (Although it sounds cliche- Snake for precision, Bear for power, Monkey for balance, Crane for meditation), each with its own special moves that are useful in certain situations (PvP kiting, lots of mobs, etc.). That way the individual strengths of each tree could come out, and give each a little more personality. You could also implement some awesome debuffs this way (poison or disease for snake, for example) or other unique stuff.
Each stances' moves would only be usable while you're in that stance. So for the Snake stance, for example, you would havea move that poisons the targets mind at MasterPrecision Striking (to coincide with head hit). However, you would have to enter the snake stance to use it, and you would have certain bonuses while in that stance (probably accuracy bonuses etc.). In the Bear stance (for the power tree), you have the really powerful special moves, that dont really do anything fancy, but are useful after youve knocked a target down and you want to lay the beat down on 'em.
This system is sounded better as I write it, and I really think it would add alot to the profession. Perhaps even give each stance a damage type, that would soothe all the cries for different damage types, and you would still be able to ditch the VKs. I think this would add alot of strategy. Use the balance stance to get hellacious kd and posture change resists while you're chasing a kiter, KD them, then switch precision to lay down a mind poison on em, then to bear to smash em up. If anyone has any suggestions on this system I'd love to hear them, and I'd be happy to answer questions about it. I think this would help make TKA alot more "martial artsy" and wouldn't require a massive amount of overhauling as far as the skill points, certifications, requirements etc. go.
Thanks for reading,
-Troupe
I was thinking about tthe damage thing and your right if they upped us to 350 that really could help us.But will they do that? thats the big question.Maybe up our speed a little too but maybe thats just asking too much
(sigh)
Mr. H,
I think your original question is not being properly answered. What do you want them to _be_ deos not mean what do you want them _to do_.
There have been some GREAT speculative stories about the TKA's background and roll throughout this forum. I would love it if one of these stories or a range of these stories (just to apply some mystery) was applied to our profession so that we can play our characters as they were meant to be played. The powers assigned to us should be directed by this storyline. There should be a direct proportion to effert in achievement and power gained.
I would like to participate in the story line on a higher level with the players that are doing the same. I dont want to role-play with the computer... frankly that makes me feel like an idiot...
Picture this....
You are a master bounty hunter... you get enough rank to go before Vader. He tasks you with hunting down and killing a _player_ Jedi. The player is mentioned by name. You become overt and stay overt until the mission is completed. If you are killed the mission is terminated and you are considered a failure by the Empire and your rank is stripped (you can of course build it back up then re-submit for the quest). If you do succeed in killing the jedi then you are awarded Mandelorian armor. A similar mission could be in place for Rebel BHs and Sith...
Now TKs... Lets say they make us 'watchers of the Jedi' like many choose to believe we are... First off this answers the question 'what do you want TKAs to be?' not a damage statistic. But ... I digress... Now every jedi has a TEF to us no matter what. We _since_ them. Someone mentioned 'Force Toughness' which we gain at master level. We should also have ways of finding Jedi. Not sure how ... But this give me a hand here and help me fill in the rest of this story. The BH one was pretty easy and could prolly be greatly improved upon.
THIS is what I would like to see given back to the devs... Not how they should balance the classes but a _roll_ within the world and the tools to act upon it.
Anyone??? Beuler???