CUEmu - Thread Posts

Tal-N

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:40 am

One of the things the devs said about the new combat pass is focussing all profesions towards a fixed role either within the community or within a combat group. This is to ensure that a group with one of every profession has the ability to tackle anything in the game without using raw brute force as the current situation is. The new system is essentially trying to build a tactics over power standard which I feel will make combat that much more enjoyable as you need to think more about what your doing.

TKA for one thing isn't all that powerful when you think about it, we're so focussed towards kinetic damage that its very limiting in what we can do. In the end I have to say TKA is definently all about speed, that is the nature of unarmed combat after all. The ability to respond quickly and accurately in a combat situation without the kind of hinderance caused by wielding a large weapon. The benefit of course of weapons is that they are inherantly more powerful in terms of damage than bare knuckle fighting and I personally feel this should be focussed on with the combat pass. I'd like to point out that I'm just sharing an idea here for what I'd personally like to see done with TKA to allow it to have a really definent flavour rather than some generic melee profession which it currently is.

Put simply TKA should be designed for status effects and group supression while not being injured in return. The idea being to slowly wear the enemy down rather than blitz them as we currently do, damage should always be low. The general DPS the lowest amoung any melee professions as we have neither armor peicing abilities nor multiple damage types to adapt to a resistant enemy. That isn't to say we'd be weaker, not by a long shot. Simply that the duration of the fights will be far longer with us taking the minimum of hits.

To that end all our specials should be have a wide variety of status effects or special functions. Things like blind, stun, dizzy, knockdown and intimidation being common place however as you rise up the profession these become more and more difficult to resist, able to hit multiple opponents at once and most importantly the specials cause multiple status effects at once so we can apply them faster and faster. It means that TKA becomes a very powerful type of tank, one that doesn't get hit but also doesn't deal much damage. It holds the attention of the enemies so that the rest of the group can destory them. This doesn't mean that TKA can't solo though, the fights simply last much longer when that happens.

This method of 'evasive tanking' would need to have unique specials though. Ones that delay the enemies attacks, focus their attention towards you rather than the group your fighting with and even ones that cause damage over time effects which are mild but very long lasting. This could be done a number of ways but ultimately I feel for an evasive tank longevity is better than spamming specials with damage. So here's my idea....

As you advance up the profession you gain new passive skills to your normal attacks, these are special functions which do the things mentioned above so that every blow you land has the chance to extend how long you last. Lets say at novice you gain what could be called 'Focused Strike' which means every non-special attack you land incremently lowers the enemies attack speed as if it winded them. Thus the more you attack them the slower they get. Further up you gain 'Dazing Strike', this is like a momentary effect where every hit causes the enemy to recoil, causing their accuracy to slowly get lower and lower to the point where they simply cannot focus very well if you hit them fast enough. Getting into the more advanced skills you gain the passive ability 'Critical Strike' where every blow landed causes a growing weakness within the enemies attack damage. Finally at master with you already slowing, weaking and making it harder them to to hit you a TKA Master gains the ability to cause internal bleeding with 'Fatal Strike'. This is a slow acting DoT which is caused with every normal attack, slowly stacking and extending with each blow. Only around 1 point of damage over time per tick but enough to start to wear the enemy down even when you're not attacking them.

There needs to be a drawback here however, these special status effects which target certain stats subside if they aren't used regularly. This means against a single opponent they are constantly stacking up but against multiple opponents the effects are going to wear off unless you split your attention against them all. Something some people won't like however is that because of the raw potency of these debuffing effects the damage TKA cause needs to be drastically reduced, no more 3000 point hits or 500 points of damage per normal punch. I'd say dropping it by a good 50% would be ideal. The thing to remember though is that while your DPS is lower you're not going to be getting hit by the enemy, they are getting weaker and weaker with each blow so you outlast them.

So what role will specials carry you might say, well the purpose of them is to hit mutliple enemies, direct your attacks towards certain pools and apply as many of the more common status effects as possible. Naturally there is a damage increase but you won't need to rely on specials to defeat an exceptionally hard opponent, specials would be used for the sake of speed rather than for power. They'd also give you an additional edge in combat. Lets take a simple example such as unarmedblow2. Rather than a raw damage dealing ability it would cause stun as well. Unarmed combo1 would cause stun and blind, unarmed combo 2 would cause stun, blind and dizzy. The specials would simply apply the stats changes faster rather than causing more and more damage. The new thing would be specials designed for crowd control and this is what would dominate alot of the tree. Specials designed to hit all attacking enemies within a 5m radius with blind, then with blind and dizzy. Then at master you'd have the mother of all attacks which worked on groups causing blinding, stun, dizzy, intimidationand knockdown however the damage wouldn't bemassive to counter such a raw debuffing move. The naturally you'd have unarmedhit3 up there but it would be focussed more towards damage with maybe just blind and dizzy.

But anyway, for me this would be great. Less damage but with sheer longevity to the fights and needed to focus on keeping the enemies at a disatvantage while you slowly wear them down. Still tanking.. but tanking with style

Tal-N Chratk
Ahazi Master Bioengineer / Hunt Master / Rifleman
______________________
Tal'N Chratk
Shadowfire Bounterhunter / Commando

KraytDragonMan

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:46 am

#2

I actually really like that idea.

Spacedman_Spliff

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:49 am

#3

Isn't the role of the TKA to hunt down and eliminate the jedi?

Lordhairybeast

Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:03 am

#4

Nice post, but I really like the way TKA is now. Furthermore, If the devs were to try to implement this style of fighting for TKA. It would probably just cause more harm than good.

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."

Zarqon

Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:21 am

#5

Nice suggestions, especially with the new concept of a strike that makes normal attacks afterwards do something, as opposed to just spamming specials. This kind of idea could be build into many of the professions, with the cumulative effects being different for each class depending of what the combat role of that class would be.

Nice ideas.

--------------------------------------------
Karon Oblodra, Dark Jedi
Azeth Ata, Master Bounty Hunter
Terossk, Trandoshan Warrior
Guildleader of MDU

GKM

Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:46 am

#6

I agree with the speed and precision part. I like the way we have good damage capabilities but at the cost of major HAM. I think TKA is good the way it is now, it isn't a super profession like everyone thinks it is and I feel it really works the way it was supposed to.

And while the devs are at it I would like to see the animation fo UnarmedBlind become poking them in the eye with two fingers

I spam UnarmedLegHit after KD just for the animation hehe

BabyRancor

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:02 pm

#7

I really like this idea - changing TKA from a damage dealing class to a debuffing class is an interesting compromise.

I've thought about now neat it would be to include tenets of judo or akido in the TKA build. Perhaps a throw attack that would be essentially a KD that moves the enemy away 10-15m (perfect for rescuing a ranged groupmember). Or perhaps a joint-lock sort of attack - one that requires you to keep hitting with it but during that time the mob is held immobile.

I'd love the ability to turn kinetic attacks away too - perhaps as a passive defence move like CoB. You hit your defensive stance key and for a short time you will randomly redirect melee attacks aimed at you to another target (not in your group).

Another neat ability would be something like an "Armour Break" -a targeted attack that reduces a certain resist on a mob. Keep doing the attack and you keep reducing the resist slowly - stop the attack and the resist regenerates back up to it's natural level.

Another wishful thought is the idea of styles. At each skill box there are a couple of ability choices - and you must choose one or the other. That way each TKM would be a little different from another. One could focus on area-attacks, another on a bunch of armour breaks, a third on defensive fighting.

Jakkin Darkstrider - Master Rifleman/ Master TKA - Sunrunner
"This utopia seems to be more of a Fruitopia"

Combat Balance Proposal Discussion
Jedi Quest System Proposal

Tal-N

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:03 pm

#8

Isn't the role of the TKA to hunt down and eliminate the jedi?

No, the art and the order was designed to create an organisation who monitered and watched over the Jedi to ensure they didn't fall out of line. They focussed entirely on self defence more than anything else, when you have an opponent who is able to slice you in two and use the Force against you it's better to disarm and disable them rather than run in and beat the crap out of them without any thought. Currently TKA is about spamming specials as fast as possible rather than defending yourself as Teras Kasi is supposed to work.

What I'm trying to get to ultimately is that melee professions all do essentially the same thing. We all deal damage and status effects, what they need to do is break up melee professions into specific roles so that when they are teamed up you have a rock solid group of fighters who's abilities reinforce one another. Polearm for me needs to be a profession designed for dealing damage to groups, lots of spinning and using both ends of the staffs to hit multiple opponents. 1 handed weapons need to be designed for very specific singular targets and hitting specific pools and applying singular status effects, essentially becoming the middle group between TKA and 2 handed. Now 2 handed should be the raw damage dealers for two reasons. Firstly they have all the really heavy weapons, they crush, they slice, they cleave things in two. These would be the guys who focussed on a singular opponent and cut them to ribbons in the shortest time possible however would suffer from not having the ability to stick status effects.

That would mean in a group situations the TKA is who protects everyone, the fencer varies ther role to adapt to what is happening, the polearm artist ensures that all of the enemies are being suitably damaged while the 2-handed fighter simply smashes through one enemy at a time knowing that the others are watching their back. In another situation you find that there are good pairings as well, all of them are able to support each one in a duo role.

TKA defends, Fencer attacks / TKA defends, polearm attacks the whole group at once /TKA defends, 2-handed crushes them one at a time

Fencer defends, 2 handed crushes one by one / Fencer defends, polearm attacks all at once

Polearm attacks all at once / 2-handed smashes through one at a time

All of these situations mean that a duo will win given any length of time with the minumum of harm to themselves. Even with the defensively weak polearm & 2-handed the enemies will be suffering so much damage that the fight would be over within moments.

Message Edited by Tal-N on 02-23-2004 07:13 PM

Tal-N Chratk
Ahazi Master Bioengineer / Hunt Master / Rifleman
______________________
Tal'N Chratk
Shadowfire Bounterhunter / Commando

Spacedman_Spliff

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:12 pm

#9

If that's the case I have to reluctantly agree with you then. Will be tough as I'm getting pretty good at spamming the specials now lol

J.

powerprophet

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:16 pm

#10

Tal-N wrote:

Isn't the role of the TKA to hunt down and eliminate the jedi?

No, the art and the order was designed to create an organisation who monitered and watched over the Jedi to ensure they didn't fall out of line. They focussed entirely on self defence more than anything else, when you have an opponent who is able to slice you in two and use the Force against you it's better to disarm and disable them rather than run in and beat the crap out of them without any thought. Currently TKA is about spamming specials as fast as possible rather than defending yourself as Teras Kasi is supposed to work.

What I'm trying to get to ultimately is that melee professions all do essentially the same thing. We all deal damage and status effects, what they need to do is break up melee professions into specific roles so that when they are teamed up you have a rock solid group of fighters who's abilities reinforce one another. Polearm for me needs to be a profession designed for dealing damage to groups, lots of spinning and using both ends of the staffs to hit multiple opponents. 1 handed weapons need to be designed for very specific singular targets and hitting specific pools and applying singular status effects, essentially becoming the middle group between TKA and 2 handed. Now 2 handed should be the raw damage dealers for two reasons. Firstly they have all the really heavy weapons, they crush, they slice, they cleave things in two. These would be the guys who focussed on a singular opponent and cut them to ribbons in the shortest time possible however would suffer from not having the ability to stick status effects.

That would mean in a group situations the TKA is who protects everyone, the fencer varies ther role to adapt to what is happening, the polearm artist ensures that all of the enemies are being suitably damaged while the 2-handed fighter simply smashes through one enemy at a time knowing that the others are watching their back. In another situation you find that there are good pairings as well, all of them are able to support each one in a duo role.

TKA defends, Fencer attacks / TKA defends, polearm attacks the whole group at once /TKA defends, 2-handed crushes them one at a time

Fencer defends, 2 handed crushes one by one / Fencer defends, polearm attacks all at once

Polearm attacks all at once / 2-handed smashes through one at a time

All of these situations mean that a duo will win given any length of time with the minumum of harm to themselves. Even with the defensively weak polearm & 2-handed the enemies will be suffering so much damage that the fight would be over within moments.

Message Edited by Tal-N on 02-23-2004 07:13 PM

Best defense is a kickass offense IMO=P

LordBing

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:30 pm

#11

every prof is about spamming specials not simply tka it would seem to me. secondly your idea about being a more defensive than offensiveis that fencer is the defensive melee class. that have more defences and their dps is less then tka. third is why waste your time applying stats affects on a mob when its just a 1 out of the 100s of pikets u have to kill. the stats affects are ok but not worth it if the mob will be dead 10seconds from now. for ns and jedi and krayts and stuff those can help alot but otherewise kinda a waste. i dont think tka needs to be changed much at all, yestka isreally good(as long as they dont have 80% kinetic comp on) but i think the other profs need to be improved so they r on the same lvl as the tka instead on changing tka to be on theirs. i would see your changes as a nerf and wouldnt like it.

illion silmar

farnargle

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:48 pm

#12

i guess if can't stack defs, will just have to become a craftsman along with tka so have lots of creds at least. i personally don't see anything wrong with stacking since anyone that plays game is allowed to build whatever template they want. if anyone has a big prob with certain pvp temps they can grind out the current one and join in also.

Oasa

Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:03 pm

#13

Ah, excellent ideas. It would be *very* interesting to see how we could function if that happened. Of course, the problem is, this would take a long to happen, as it seems the DEV's are pretty slow at fixing professions, let alone modifying a working one. I don't mean to bash the DEV's/SOE here, although no doubt it seems like I am. I'm just saying we'd have to wait a long time to even get a response on this if the whole TKA community seemed to like it. Wishful thinking, but good thinking nonetheless. I applaud you, not being the power hungery type/power spammer that this post could have turned out to be.

GJ

-O

--Proud Defender of Logic and Reasoning Everywhere.--

Teras Kasi Archive

Thread: The future of TKA under the new combat pass