Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: A thought on KD
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Utess
Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:27 pm
#1
Okies, I was just thinking around and had an idea pop into my head and just thought I'd toss it out there to see what people thought 
Here is the thing, no one likes knockdown/dizzy unless it's them landing it on someone else. Why is that? Well, it's not simply because it lets them be damaged more, or even because they can't kite, its because they can't do *anything* while in that state. It's not fun for them, and its not fun for us either when someone else uses a knockdown on us.
I think knockdown and dizzy are very important to the game and that they need to be kept in. Its very very important, especially for melee professions in order to keep NPCs/people from kiting us. So, how do you keep it in but make it so that it doesn't stink for the person knocked down because they are just sitting there staring at the screen unable to do anything?
Here is my thought:
Keep knockdown/dizzy working exactly how they work now, but add in one new thing
- When in a knocked down state, you can continue to attack your target only with an insanely huge *negative* accuracy modifier.
What this would accomplish:
1) Players when knocked down, still wouldn't be able to run/kite, and would recieve extra damage, same as now. Thus keeping it the same viable tool it is now.
2) But, now, the player wouldn't feel totaly helpless while laying there. There accuracy would be so low that their chances of actually hitting their attacker would be very very slim, but they would still have that slim hope of managing to land an attack, and at least they would feel like they are able to try *something* while stuck knocked down.
I honestly think that if the accuracy mod was negative enough so that it was rare, but possible, to land a hit while knocked down, it would change how players feel about knockdown completely. Yet, at the same time, not really change much if at all, the effectiveness of KD as a tool in our(and other professions) arsenal. It would be more of a change in perception than anything else, and make it more fun all around for everyone.
Anyway, I just had the thought and wanted to toss it out here just to see what everyone else thought about it 
I'm not saying this may necessarily be a good idea or not, just brain storming
I'm not saying this may necessarily be a good idea or not, just brain storming
KnapweedD
Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:35 pm
#2
Yep, I totally agree. In fact I posted a similar thought a few days ago. I'm MTK but I have always thought this an overpowered move for any profession.
jibberjabberfp
Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:49 pm
#3
Well, while lvling up, being able to KD and not even dizzy, but just pound the NPC while it was down helped alot. I would rather that if someone is KD/dizzy, they have a 40-60% chance of getting back up, each time. so within 1-3 tries, they should be back up. That is the real pain, not being able to get back out of it.
Utess
Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:06 pm
#4
jibberjabberfp wrote:
Well, while lvling up, being able to KD and not even dizzy, but just pound the NPC while it was down helped alot. I would rather that if someone is KD/dizzy, they have a 40-60% chance of getting back up, each time. so within 1-3 tries, they should be back up. That is the real pain, not being able to get back out of it.
I agree that the problem isn't knockdown. With the timer in place now, knockdown by itself is fine. The issue is being knocked down and dizzy isn't fun because you can't do anything at all.
And I thought about a "chance to get up" when dizzied. The problem is that as it stands right now, it is possible to raise your defense vs dizzy or knockdown or both high enough such that it is already difficult to land them as is. And, high level npcs apparantly resist one or both fairly well.
If you added in up to a 50% chance of being able to stand again, you would flat out nerf the effectiveness of knockdown and dizzy and make things even harder now than they already are. It is a valid solution though, I just don't think it would work as well, nor be very well recieved by the community.
I think adding in the ability to attack while knockdowned(just at such a low accuracy that you will almost never hit while in that state) neither nerfs knockdown+dizzy's use(like warcry's change ruined that) nor makes being in that state as unfun as it is currently. I just think my idea is more of a win-win situation. But thats just me lol
Draccuss
Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:27 pm
#5
Ok I understand what you are talking about and I agree that would be a great idea BUT what happens if that knockdown/dizzy is performed by a ranged profession and you are only a melee'er? You are still pretty useless lying on your back while he is shooting at you from his ideal range.
CORVETTEPRINCE
Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:39 pm
#6
i agree in the real medical world we got a few years back a couple new meds to work cardiac arrest thye one time or a longer time between give intervals well when you you have to sit for 15 mins before you give another drug or give something every 3-5 mins makes us fell alot better than in our minds nothng for again in our minds hours.
Doing something even if its wrong or wont help makes everyone feel better =]
Draccuss
Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:21 pm
#7
Umm **edit** are you talking about.
CORVETTEPRINCE wrote:
i agree in the real medical world we got a few years back a couple new meds to work cardiac arrest thye one time or a longer time between give intervals well when you you have to sit for 15 mins before you give another drug or give something every 3-5 mins makes us fell alot better than in our minds nothng for again in our minds hours.
Doing something even if its wrong or wont help makes everyone feel better =]
KnapweedD
Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:49 pm
#8
Draccuss quoth:
Umm **edit** are you talking about
I think he's having a flashback from the sixties...
ArclightX
Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:43 am
#9
Whatever!!!
I don't know who you've been fighting but no it isn't an overpowered move. Perhaps a little perspective is in order. Say for instance I'm buffed and patroling on Kor' vela and I come across the usual bunch of newb rebs farming who don't even notice me, fully overt, walking, not running, but walking towards them, they are unbuffed and a quarter to a third of their ham is black bar from having been killed by the npc's several times already, etc.. etc.. etc.. Then yes.. to this rabble KD2 by itself can almost incapp them in one hit and I'm sure it does seem rediculously overpowered to them.
Scenario #2, we are raiding a rebel city or an otherwise organized group of rebs who know and are prepared for a fight. KD2 becomes a good but only marginally effective move especially against certain professions, (fencer, pistoleer/smuggler, rifleman, any stacked template, any ranged prof. thats able to maintain a good distance from me because they know what they are doing, etc.. etc..). I've even been in a situation where I have successfully knocked down some one but they are wearing 80-90% composite and as wonderful as it is to be wailing away on them as they lie down on the ground, they are going to be up quite shortly and when they are I probably have only moved there ham a millimeter.
Don't call for an adjustment to KD2 just because ppl don't know how to fight, or don't know how to look around or check their radar while they are farming.
Ahazians
Zarqon
Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:26 am
#11
I generally agree, the thing you hate aout being KD'd is that you can't do much while you're laying there. However a couple of points, if you're allowed to do something it might be wise to remember that not all things require any accuracy. Combat medics for example could do whatever they want making them even more powerful. Also doctors could simply cure there dizzy state while being KD/dizzied if they could do something.
Good points though.
Utess
Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:53 am
#12
ArclightX wrote:
Whatever!!!
I don't know who you've been fighting but no it isn't an overpowered move.
.......
Don't call for an adjustment to KD2 just because ppl don't know how to fight, or don't know how to look around or check their radar while they are farming.
I'm not saying the move is overpowered hon, and I'm not calling for a change to knockdown2. I'm saying that the reason people complain about KD+Dizzy has very little to do with the fact that it is overpowered, and more to the fact that they feel they can't do anything while in that state. And that, is frustrating and unfun to the person it is being applied to. Which is why I just tossed out the brain storm to allow people to be able toattack with extremely low accuracy while in this state.
It wouldn't really add much to or nerf the current system, but it would give players in that state a chance to do something, and the slimmest chance to actualy retaliate, which would remove 99% of the complaints about kd+dizzy while barely altering it at all.
But, no, I'm not saying make this change to just KD2, I'm suggesting that making a minor change to how the dizzy/KD system worked would make the game more enjoyable for everyone(which I thought was the whole idea O.o ). I just posted here because I'm a TKM myself and felt that it would be more appropriate for me to field the thought here than to go troll another professions board I'm not a part of
To the other posters, yeppers, I can see where Doctor/CM skills would be an issue and I can see where problems with this system would occur if a ranged player kd/dizzied a melee player with no ranged attacks at all. Both really good points I think this could be worked around though.
I think this could be worked around though.Anyway, this whole thread was just to toss out an idea and let people run with it and mull it over, in no way do I think it's perfect as I suggested it, but I do think it might be a step in the right direction 
Cielago
Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:57 am
#13
Have a look here :
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=game_guides&message.id=152909
( sorry, no lazy link )
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