Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: How do you like being the only working combat class? (post-patch)
With the recent patch I have noticed a few things that TKA should find "nice" if only temporary. Armor is broken so VKs do full damage on armored opponents. Unarmed damage was increased by approximately 15%. With no use for armor and weapon AP not working correctly, TKAs retain thier higher melee and ranged defense than other combat classes giving them greater survivability than before.
Okay, this is not to say anything for TKA is fixed at all. Just to say that so much is broken right now, TKA is a good place to be standing.
bikebum wrote:
With the recent patch I have noticed a few things that TKA should find "nice" if only temporary. Armor is broken so VKs do full damage on armored opponents. Unarmed damage was increased by approximately 15%. With no use for armor and weapon AP not working correctly, TKAs retain thier higher melee and ranged defense than other combat classes giving them greater survivability than before.
Okay, this is not to say anything for TKA is fixed at all. Just to say that so much is broken right now, TKA is a good place to be standing.
and last week it was good to be a comando
This game will always be constantly changing, like most every online game does. I read somthing else that interested me, and it had nothing to do what so ever with SWG. I played a savage in DAOC for many months, at the release of its exspantion half a year ago. I learned today that the savage was severly nerfed to less viable class then most of its counter parts in the melee world. Interesting because everything changes, and whos on top this week, might be on the bottom next week.
That being said.
* armor is a serious issue for the growth of this game. increased armor means decreased output in melee performance vs armored personal. the better armor gets the worse melee gets. where is the balance, and will their be balance a year from now *asuming this armor issue is fixed*
* KD+dizzy. is it intended as is right now? if it isn't then how can the decreased dmg be justified specificly to melee combat professions who have KD+dizzy.
* melee class's that have no knock down, how is this decrease to dmg justified? is everyone now dependant on having medic now to servive? will the non KDing class's ever be able to catch their kiting targets? if they do catch them then what?
* this game from release has been in the favor of the kiter ( that means people who have ranged attacks) the decrease to dmg promotes kiting even more. it is in fact a buff to kiting tactics IMO. it means the pursuer can not close a fight if he does catch his target. TKs can now close that fight because of KD2, but were does that leave the rest of the melee's?
* are master doctors now the elite of pvp? 1500+ buffs with heals, what if that master doctor was a TKM aswell with power boost KD2 1500 heals, and those buffs? were does that leave the smugler, or the pistoleer.
* i dont see much change if any to the performance of the bounty hunter. they too get dizzy KD plus mind targeted shots. people that have no mind targeted shots , does that mean that they can't compete vs heals now?
finaly will the changes in this game be temporary? or permaninat? and if either case, how will it effect this TKA profession, and others alike.
You are correct about commando being flavor of the month last week, but I am not saying TKA will be the flavor this week. Just stating my observation while grinding unarmed for TKA myself. My damage with VK's has jumped from 192 to 292 since tuesday while beserk and 85 to 94 without VKs and not beserk. I was being conservative saying that I only saw a 15% increase in unarmed because that is what I saw without VKs on.
As far is this patch is concerned, it seem to have broken more than it fixed, and as far as I can tell is this patch has only helped me so far in gaining unarmed exp. As for my commando weapons, armor, and pets, it has killed me as a PvPer, but I never did that much anyway. As soon as they fix armor (which they will), all will go back to being close to what it was pre-patch minus TEF.
Valkari,I didn't want to skirt around your points in my last post but ended up doing so to keep my response short. I do want to say thay your observations, comments, and questions are excellent, and in all reality I do not disagree. I too wonder what will happen in the future.
You are correct in saying that this patch, which was much anticipated, did more to make players question their participation in SWG than it did to fix anything that was expected. I know that my last few days have been spent working on my TKA so that I have my unarmed and combat exp maxed so I can drop CH and get into my final template (Master commando, TKM). I too expect the game to change, however if this last patch is an example of what is to come, is it worth it?
On the range, it dosen't seem to effect the old VK, as mine still have a range of 1-3m, but it was in the patch notes that it was their intention to raise the range to 1-5m weather or not they screwed up or not, Pike-vibros all have a range of 1-4m....was 1 meter further, now is one meter behind.
Honestly the 1 meter in my opinion dosen't really matter, it is just evidence that hings are making less and less sense all the time.
I cannot reach 10 meters. I seem to have been in range at 6-7m before(i think) but i have also been out of range at 3-4m....so who knows?
its just another knock to pikeman.
So far tka's have it all over us in defense...at least 3X
Damage per second......only becouse you guys don't miss 6-10 times in a row, other wise we would out damage you by far.
Damage per hit....only in PvP becouse of your defenses.
speed....at least 3X
secondary skills.....meditate is so awesome, TKA is worth it just for thati think....should be made more available to alternate melee classes.
accuracy......-54/-54/-54....this can only end in tears.
HAM costs.....who else but pikeman does 200-300 damage to them selves every 2 seconds?...and don't tell me not to use special moves becouse we already went over the DPS and accuracy....and we won't live long enuff to just use normal attacks
and....what else?......i dunno......
oh yeah.....Unarmed Hit 3 does 4X damage and dizzy(i think it's dizzy);Polearm hit 3 does 3X damage and stun and posture down(great before knockdown nerf, crap now)....the HAM modifieres are about the same and so is the time modifiers......except my Long Vibro Axe's HAM is 87/70/36 while VK are more like 36/50/36.....so we do less damage while doing more to ourselves....SWEET!....plus we have other moves with 3X damage....our MASTER SKILL brings nothing to the table.....if it wasnt' for the accuracy bonus getting master would be compleatly questionable in its worth.
and just to make sure you know, i am not saing TKA should be nerfed or anything, i just think that the gap between pikeman and tka is large enuff and they should work on helping other melees catch up to tka before they make tka even beter than the other 3.
melee should own.....i don't know about TKA but without a pet keeping me from getting hit(basicly a ranged fighter) i am definatly NOT owning anything.....Pikeman seem to me to be a class basesed around area attacks and knockdown, but the way we fight now is akin to dressing up in fresh meat and walking into a lion's den.
I am sure one day they will fix us and everything will be good, but i am sick of getting passivly nerfed for 5 patches becosue of exploits elsewere in the game and then being ignored while the supirior class is buffed past us beyond any hope of chalanging them....
i CAN NOT fight a tka.,,,,,and don't critsize my style or something.....fight a pikeman....study what happens....you will have your proof.
I don't know about TKAs being the only working combat class, i know you guys arn't doing too bad as far as functionality goes......i mean, pikeman works fine, it does what it is supposed to, it is just that we are made so much worse than tka....all of our skills work, so do our dfenses....our defenses are just irrelivent compared to TKA and our skills litterly KILL us......i have rambled on long enuff and i am sure to get flamed for all this negative energy, but try to undertand how frustraighting it is for winning and doing good to simply not be an option....and with each patch it is less and less of a possiblitiy....i am alot of my pikeman freinds have been dangerously close of quitting pikeman and the game alltogether becouse no one will do anything about this.
And i am nto here looking to argue and prove points saying that TKAs are unbalanced....think of this as a learning experiance......i am just trying to educate. not hate(that rhymed, i'm a poet and i didn't even realize it).
i dueled a guy today and i wasnt hitting him for crap, has anyone else noticed the damage reduction in pvp is almost doubled? givin he was in composite but my headhit with a VK hits for about 300 to 400 damage in pvp and i hit him for maybe 45 damage a hit, he had no buffs or anything. before the patch even people with composite armor on were dead in seconds.
jiub
in for a hell of a long pvp battle
Arkmindspear,
I believe that pikemen got screwed in this game so I am not arguing with you but I did want to make one comment on what you said.
My BH when using a pistol can damage himself 338 in 2 seconds fireing torso shot
A BH can damage himself 476 in2 seconds fireing fire knock down.
Right now both pistol users and carbine users will do more damage to themselves than they do to their targets in many situations. I was reading the carbineer threads and one poor guy claims that someone was on fire in the med center and he asked to be duel-db'ed so he could lose the fire state. The carbineer started shooting at him to incap him, and ended up having to heal himself before he could incap this the guy. Even before the patch I did about the same amount of damge to myself as I did to the target when firing eye shot. It was ok though cause my damage was going to action and the targets to mind. Note though that this was when using one of the top krayt guns on the server.
Not that this is what you saw... but before the patch armor had holes in it. Any eye-shot would ignore any armor being worn, along with a couple of other locations.
Could it have been that before you were getting eye shots? I have not heard that this has been or has not been fixed, but it was supposed to. I'm sure BHs are complaining that their eye-shots do much less damage too.
I did notice a signifant drop in my damage today. It sounds like TKA is more in line with unarmed now. When I moved from unarmed 4 to TKA I was doing 4x the damage. Sounds like they stepped up unarmed and moved down TKA to make it a more even step up instead of a giant leap. Not that I agree with TKA being brought down though.
Ok - to address the pike man. First off, I piked TKA because i watched too many kung fu movies - not because i studied or i knew that it was better or whatever... but (and this is how i look at it) I think Pike men SHOULD have the range adv (disadvantage) to TK. So if our max range is 5meters now... you SHOULD have 10 meters. (to combat that server lag range thing too... nothing more frustrating than being WITHIN the range of your weapon and see "your target is out of range" and/or you fire off a special to have it say that target is out of range. I don't MIND closing that range... i just mind being in it and the computer telling me it isn't.
My other point has nothing to do w/ actuall game mechanics... a TKA SHOULD be faster and do LESS dmg per hit than a Pikeman... liken it to street fighter if you every played those games. The BIG guys moved slow but if they hit cha.... it was BAD. The quick guys moved quick... and if they hit ya (20 times) it was BAD... its all about playstyle. Sounds like you might should have picked TKA if you want to attack as quick etc. (and yes - this same argument has been brought up about melee's vs. ranged - and yet i stillthink that any one class of character should have THAT much advantage. (Personally - *I* would like to see my quickness score/buffed score MEAN something....same for ranged toon... if he/she is SLOWER than me... then i'ma gonna catch ya!)
My next point has all to do w/ your repeated mentions of "TKA defenses" I went to that swg character builder ... its at V0.9.2 now... (cause i was lazy and don't want to get in game to actually hand-add the numbers)
All numbers are for TK Master and PM Master
TK - Dizzy +5 Posture +30 RangedD +30 Blind +10 KD +20 Stun +15 MeleeD +32 UA tough +57 Combat equilibrium +55 - hmmm not sure on this one...
PM -Dizzy +40 Posture +30 RangedD +15 Blind +20 KD +20 Stun +30 MeleeD +22 PAtough +26 UA Tough +20 Block +20 - hmmm not sure on this one...
So ... just by looking at the numbers (as i recall they were talking about fixing defenses in general... not just TK (/sarcasm on)Whiners(/sarcasm off) I'd like to postulate that we are not "so far advanced in defenses" vs. a PikeMan...we are different. And there are tradeoffs to using a big ol hairy pike vs. using yer bare hands/VK
We have Combat Equilibrium, but we have no "block" defense at all - you are +35 less likely to be dizzied, we have the same D in posture, our ranged D is twice as effective, you are more effective against blind, KD defense is the same... you are more effective vs. stun... and either we are just more UA tough... or polearme and UA add together. Either way - if they don't mix together... then you are tough against my UA attacks ... and I don't have any "toughness" against you. Our Melee D is a bit better....maybe to take into context our quicker nature...
Those are just stats as provided by the front end of the game... i can't honestly say i've fought a pikeman other than a NPC ... but then most melee NPC's fall before me... just because they aren't the brain behind thier skills... (still suprised to get a special move pulled on me by a NPC)
Allll that being said - it looks to me that the pike man will be fleshed out more.... where TK is pretty much done... (i say fleshed out in the sense that there are boxes that don't seem to do much in PM. It is said that our meditate boxes give stuff... but its not listed really) Up until yesterday powerboost was in reality a musician/dancer trainer skill. Now its actually viable... but its not like we can just punch it... gotta meditate, then use it... wait for it to take effect and then watch it go away 15 later.. =)
Oh well - this diatribe is over.... I don't begrudge ranged toons for kiting me... they are using THIER skill, i could have picked to be a ranged person... chose not to. altho i'm STILL trying to figure out how someone w/ a (small) gun knocks someone down.... heh. At the same time it makes sense to me w/ melee's... <shrug> Its funny now listening to people complain that PVP takes too long... (i know its a bug) to me... 1 shot kills were tooooooo bloody short... whats the fun in going HI! (clone) HI! (clone) HI!... <grin>
Take care at any rate.... I play the game to have fun and if i didn't like my TK class, i'd ditch it... for something i liked more. =)
J/Tharg!
Littllebunny wrote:
My BH when using a pistol can damage himself 338 in 2 seconds fireing torso shot
A BH can damage himself 476 in2 seconds fireing fire knock down.
LOL!!!!! What pistol are you using? i did maybe 80damage to myself per secondusing a scatter pistol and in armor.
Your fire knock down example is also kind of high, but might be ok if you are using a bad laser rifle. This is why most bounty hunters use a cdef carbine though.
Been the bottom classes in another SOE game. its horrible.
I feel for the pikeman and other classes, I help em out every chance I get.
The range on the Vibro Knuckler is now farther than the Long Vibro Axe, and Vibro Lance. Also, i am unarmed Lv3, and since the newest patch The Vibro Knuckler has gone from doing about ten less damage than unarmed at 4X the speed to doing about 4X the damage at 4X the speed, even though it sayis i amuncertified to use it, i think it acts like i am....
I am about 150EXP away form master pikeman and i was beaten erlier today by a novice TKA becouse her defense was so much higher than mine that she did more damage to me each hit, than i did to her each hit, and she did it 3X faster and i mised 50% of the time, and any special move i try to do costs 150-300HAM....
and knockdown.....oh god, knockdown,.....this is good for everyone, perma-knockdown....
YOU GUYS......are sitting pretty