Teras Kasi Archive

Found this on the Jedi forum, seems relevant to the TKA as the Jedi are basically another melee class.

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I was traveling south from Mos Taike towards Mos Eisley just over an hour ago (roughly 4:30PM 9-5-03) and ran into a Dark Jedi Master named Beagok U-E. She attacked me and during the fight, I checked her stats. She had 90% resistance to EVERYTHING!!!!

At first I thought this was totally awesome. Until I noticed that I was actually WINNING the fight! (Keep in mind that I was solo......so I had zero help). I was just keeping out of lightsaber range of her and kept nailing her with my pistol. She tried running towards me, but she could not run faster than I could, so I kept her at a safe distance for about twenty minutes until she finally died.

I hope PC Jedi are not this vulnerable to players. I'm a low-level pistoleeer and had very little trouble killing a Dark Jedi Master!

Just doesn't seem right. She should have slaughtered me.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=42075

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And Koster wonders why people are flocking to pistoleer.

"And Koster wonders why people are flocking to pistoleer."

Yeah, it iskind of absurd, isn't it?

You really have to question whether or not the guy has even played this game before.

Silly me..

I just dumped pistoleer for Teras Kasi...

but yet, despite the negatives, im having fun...

oh wait, i shouldnt say that, they will find some way to nerf my fun having abilities.

Jagent Drylan (TIO)

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Yeah, I'm a TKM/Pistoleer. I soloed both the Dark Jedi Knight and Dark Jedi Master on Dathimir (Prisoner quests) using just my novice pistoleer skills (DX2 + healthshot2).Extremely easy since the Jedi have no force powers (leads me to believe the tales of the FS slots not being in the game are true).

I agree that it's absoutely absurd that a Novice Pistoleer can destroy a Dark Jedi merely by kiting. I also think that's it's absolutely absurd that a Novice Pistoleer can destroy a TKA Master merely by kiting.

The devs wonder why a disproportionate number of people are choosingpistoleer...

uhhh, IT'S THE KITING STUPID. IT'S THE KNOCKDOWN ABILITY STUPID. (why even do ranged fighters have a knockdown ability ... it's should be the sole province of the melee classes)

I wonder what's up with this love affair that the devs seem to have with kiting. It's as if they believe that kiting is essential in the Star Wars universe, no matter how lame and cheesy the tactic is. There is no defense or countertactic to a novice pistoleer kiting.

If kiting is to be in the game, there should be SEVERE penalties for doing it, such as having only a 5% chance of hitting the target. Chance to hit target should not only be based on a person's chance to hit, but on the speed the person kiting is running, the speed the target is running, the angle of aim from the shooter's firing hand, the distance to the target, etc. This especially since the devs use asinine "real world" logic such as "don't bring a knife to a gunfight".

What about the real world logic of not being able to aim while sprinting while not looking at your target 60 meters behind you.

Kiting is a major reason why PvP is broken.

You wanna know why ranged weapons have a knockdown? You try getting shot with a shotgun blast, a high-powered rifle, or in the by a heavy pistol, while you’re running, and see if you don’t fall. Think of being knocked down like being shot in the leg. And I don’t want to hear ‘Well, they hit me in the gut!’ because:

A) That’s going to knock you down too. Searing pain has the tendency to make you want to stop doing what you were doing.

B) Half the shots in the game don’t graphically hit where the damage counter says they hit, and Bodyshot is just that…a shot against the body to cause damage. Your body includes your legs. Imagination is the key.

That’s being said, I can understand the problem with kiting. I am a firm believer that ranged weapon users should be less accurate when they run. Guess what? They are. Pistols suffer less of an accuracy penalty (I think, honestly, I don’t use Rifles or Carbines…) because they’re easier to swing behind you and fire…nothing harder than bracing a gun against your shoulder and shooting backwards (at least I would imagine…I’ve never tried…doesn’t seem like a sane thing for a novice to do). This being said, I still think ranged weapon user should be slower while firing. Not while carrying a weapon, but while firing.

I can’t speak for Unarmed speed right now…at least not in the TKA area, I’m still eagerly looking forward to making it…but with regards to most things, I’ve found Melee fighters do more damage with weapons. As I’ve stated before, I can take my two-handed sword, hit a basic attack (the one that hit mind, can’t remember the name), and hit for 500-700 points of MIND damage. Against opponents my companions, and myself, with pistols to 300-400 HEALTH damage. When I switched from my main character to a second character on another server, that main character, who had not hit Unarmed specialist, was doing roughly the same amount of base damage as I was doing as a pistoleer with a high end Scout Blaster. Using Specials (Body Shot 2, to be precise) I was doing a fair size more with my pistol. Which was to be expected.

You want them to get rid of Kiting? Why? So ranged fighters have to stand toe to toe against melee fighters? That’s just silly. The point of ranged fighters is being at range, not having to get close to your opponent…but, in MY experience, that range has come at a reduction of damage.

Now, I know it’s a game (and this is my opinion, you don’t have to like it…), Melee artists, should, in general, have a disadvantage in 1 on 1 PVP (i.e. duels). Unless, of course, the ranged fighter is a moron and is stupid to start the fight up close.

I watched a guy who I will assume was TKA Imperial (possibly high end brawler, he had no tag up) take out a pair of Rebels shooting at him. He was outnumbered in the PC avenue, but did have pets…but I also watched him drop both shooters.

There SHOULD be a better balancing point. They say they’ve fixed defenses (in the patch notes, I believe), and it’s my personal opinion that, on top of suffering a damage multiplier when welding a ranged weapon in hand to hand, ranged fighters should have the following penalties:

Less speed when running and shooting (they already have less accuracy)
Less defensive bonuses (Vs. Stun, Blind, Posture change, etc.). Ranged fighters should be used to getting hit as much, so they shouldn’t have bonuses as ‘nice’ for lack of a better word off the top of my head.

That would be quite a bit better. Perhaps something in the melee (even if it’s just under the ‘Elites’) that allows for something minor along the line of speed increases. A physical conditioning that’s been come by with years of training. Perhaps a .1 multiplier to non-burst run speed at tier one of that particular branch of the skill tree, increasing by another .1 every tier, with a max of a .5 speed increase at master.

This would allow us melee fighters (if you haven’t picked it up yet, I’m both a pistoleer (my first profession), and heading up to TKA with one character, and a straight brawler with my sights on TKA with another character) to catch up with the slower moving Ranged classes (if they’re aware of you, and they can shoot fast enough, then yes, you probably won’t make it to them), and also allow us to get away from large creatures we suddenly find ourselves unable to stand toe to toe with, but can catch us.

Just thoughts…

Cestus Virium – Gun/Sword/Fist/Pain in the @$$ for hire (the first three will cost ya, the last is free), Scylla
Joar-Addam Nessosin – Brawler, Medic, Madman(Zabrak), Kettermoor

Oh, and I forgot to add…if the Dark Jedi was not using Force Powers against the novice pistoleer in question, then yes, it was little better than another melee class (albeit with a weapon that can hit for 2000+ damage). It does go forward to support my points from my previous post.

No, I’m not saying there are no problems with TKA/Melee in general. No, I’m not saying that ranged (Pistols to be exact, I have no real experience with the others) aren’t a little OVER powered, or perhaps, just lack a few weaknesses to help balance.

Part of what I’m saying is things need to be worked on.

The rest of what I’m saying is added now, and I’ve stated it elsewhere: Why are people flocking to pistoleer? Every single person who claims it’s the ‘Uber L337’ profession without really knowing what they’re talking about.

Cestus/Joar

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CestusVirium wrote:
You wanna know why ranged weapons have a knockdown? You try getting shot with a shotgun blast, a high-powered rifle, or in the by a heavy pistol, while you’re running, and see if you don’t fall.

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Shotguns, rifles, and pistols propel mass. Thus what is hitting you hits with a lot of force. SWG blasters shoot little laser beams. Lasers don't have mass. Without mass, there is no force. Apparently the guy who gave them knockdowns was the same guy that gave them recoil animations as well.

Have a nice day.

"That’s being said, I can understand the problem with kiting. I am a firm believer that ranged weapon users should be less accurate when they run. Guess what? They are. Pistols suffer less of an accuracy penalty (I think, honestly, I don’t use Rifles or Carbines…) because they’re easier to swing behind you and fire…nothing harder than bracing a gun against your shoulder and shooting backwards (at least I would imagine…I’ve never tried…doesn’t seem like a sane thing for a novice to do). This being said, I still think ranged weapon user should be slower while firing. Not while carrying a weapon, but while firing."

Yes, it's true: your ranged accuracy diminishes if you attack something/someone while running. The problem, however, is that the accuracy penalties are negligible (i.e., laughable). I can kite red-conning Torturs for days without even being touched. (If the penalties were scaled correctly, the Tortur should wipe the floor with me.) While running/kiting, I hit far too often than I should (in my opinion.) In addition, the rapid firing rates of weapons (especially pistols)negate the standard running penalties that are currently in place.

What good is a minor accuracypenalty if I can fire a million pistol shots in the matter of a few seconds? Especially (in PvP) if my opponent's only hope of catching me is now limited not only by server lag/latency and the annoying 'That target is out of range' phenomenon, but also an artificial timer that is hard-coded to ensure that he can't stop me efficiently.

I agree with the idea of making ranged weapons slower when the gunman is running. But I also think that more severe rangedaccuracy penalties AND movement speed penalties need to be introduced as well. Nothing else (in the wake of the lunge timer) will ever provide melee players with at least a 'chance' at winning a fight without resorting to using cheap tactics (ambushes, etc.) or pets.

Also, don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that TKA's should 'own' ranged combat. Thatis the unique province of the ranged combat professional. With therecent timer nerfs, however, we AGAIN loose the in-close fighting advantage. And, quite frankly, I'm tired of seeing pistoleers and bounty hunters being able to kite TKA's in cantina's, med centers, starports, etc. It's ridiculous, lame andcheap.

Bleh ... why doI even bother posting on these boards ...?

Vortex, you say have a nice day like you’ve completely debunked my post, when, in all honesty, you barely even touched it.

Watch the movies, they have recoil there as well.

Carbines shoot mass. Bowcasters shoot mass (it’s a mass ensorcelled in energy, but it’s still mass). The Tuskan Rifle uses mass. And only the Laser Rifles shoot actual lasers (I think…it’s been a looong time since I read up on them), the rest are concentrated…gas I think? Like I said, been a long time. Please correct me if I’m wrong there. Not the same mass as say, a hunk of lead? But still, there’s mass there.

Either way, I never mentioned the force behind the shot. I was talking pain. Look at my comment about searing pain the gut. It goes the same if you get that searing pain in the head, or the knee, or hell, even the foot (try stepping on a nail sometime…it wasn’t the force that dropped me, it was the lancing pain that shot up my leg).

Metherian, I do agree wholly with a lot of what you said. I wasn’t trying to imply that my suggestions should be the ‘end all, be all’, they’re just suggestions. You’re are really good, and I agree. As a pistoleer, I miss very rarely…even as a novice before I had an accuracy to shoot while on the move. I’m not sure how ‘to hit’ is calculated in this, but where I stand now, walking has jumped my attack from a –5 (range) to a –50 (not increasing range, but moving sideways), but IS till don’t seem to miss as much as I ‘should’.

As for the speed of fire issue (not running but the rapidness ), I can agree, and I can’t. I’ve taken martial arts, and studied a couple basic weapons several times in my life (more of a hobby than any serious dedication). I’ve also watched several exhibitions, and, while I can see where it’s frustrating, using simply modern day examples, I can fire a pistol with a ten-pound pull faster than I’ve seen most people swing a sword, a fist, throw a kick, thrust a knife, swing a staff, tap dance, etc.

And I can fire that pistol at a close ranger, a lot faster than I can say, shoot a carbine with a much more powerful kick (or in Star Wars, and as Vortex was nice enough to point out, with any kick at all), when I have to constantly readjust my aim.

Excuse me CestusVirium, but what may I ask is so different about those few blaster shots that makes them more likely to KD someone than any of their other shots. Personally, I would think that a HS3 from a T21 would KD me slightly faster than a DH17 to the leg.

"You wanna know why ranged weapons have a knockdown? You try getting shot with a shotgun blast, a high-powered rifle, or in the by a heavy pistol, while you’re running, and see if you don’t fall. Think of being knocked down like being shot in the leg."

And you try getting punched in the face by a martial artist master with a knuckler/knife in his hand.

1. This is a game. I don't need to be knocked down by a blaster.


2. Strange that a Pistoleer can knock me down, but a AT-ST can't.

I'm so tired of people talking sh!t like this. THIS IS A GAME WITHOUT ANY REAL RULES. THE DEVELOPERS MAKE THE RULES. Range people should NOT have a knockdown move. Period.

Why should Melee have Knockdown? Because:

1. We can't kite mobs.


2. We can't kite in PVP.


3. Our range is 5m, so we have to make sure you STAY there so we can kill you.