Tailor Archive
Thread: Please don't flame:
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Phenix1050
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:09 am
#1
Okay, I was warned about doing this, but I felt the need to bridge the gap between our proffession and the other proffessions.
Recently, a good idea was posted on the Ranger forum, with a cool quest that would eventually end up with Master Rangers having a unique set of clothes.
Originally, the post described a set of Legendary clothes that would be indestructable and wouldn't be crafted by anyone (You would bring the subparts to an NPC and at the end, you would get a gift that would be the item of clothing. The reason that it would be indestructable is that the quests would be very hard and would involve TONS of travel, so creds would already be spent in large amounts. To have this item decay would suck, since to get new ones, you'd have to go back and do the missions again.
Obviously, this steps on Tailors toes. A few people from your proffession pointed this out, and I agree with them. You'd have every right to be pissed off if we got this implemented.
However, I suggested an alternative. Rather than getting the item itself, we'd get ability to craft the sub-parts of the clothes. Each item of Legendary clothing would require 5 or 6 sub-parts. Once we accumulated the ability to craft all the sub-parts of an item, we'd get ability to craft the final object. The final article of clothing would require a large amount of material that only a Master Tailor could make. A Master Tailor would also have the ability to craft our clothing. The difference is that if a Ranger made the final item of clothing himself, he'd recieve no experimentation and no ability to change color. However the Master Tailor could experiment and could change the color, the trim color, and perhaps even the pattern of the clothing, to match the Rangers' identity.
This would mean that a Ranger would get to make the clothing themselves (providing, of course, they spend a bunch of money on the unique and rare material that the Master Tailor makes). However, the SMART thing to do is for the Ranger to give the Tailor the sub-parts and let the tailor make the item as good as it can be.
That way, people who are dumb and refuse to be interdependant can have a quest that doesnt' require them to give up their ways. However, people who want the best Legendary clothing possible would go to a Master Tailor and have them make the clothes well.
I just wanted to hear your opinions on what would be "fair" and wouldn't step on your toes. I'd like it if you could restrain your anger and not flame, even if you want to. Understand that I DON'T want to nerf your proffession, and I DON'T want to step on toes. Rangers have two lines of Elite proffession crafting under their belts, and it'd be nice to see that reflected in a Legendary quest, but clothes are your department and I thought you'd like to be kept aware of any suggestions which might affect that.
Remember that Rangers as a whole haven't endorsed this idea, but a lot of us like the idea in concept. Please feel free to read the original post and reply on our boards, or reply here (I'm making a link here on the Ranger Board). Like the title says, I don't want to be flamed...I think most of you are more mature than that anyway, so I'm just talking to the limited number of griefers out there. This is just an idea, and your imput, I'm sure, will make it better than it is.
oh, and if you're worried about losing business, remember that there are, for the most part, less than 10 Master Rangers (the only people able to do the quest and wear the clothes) per server. So you wouldn't exactly be losing a fortune LOL.
Message Edited by Phenix1050 on 06-23-2004 11:11 AM
Phenix1050
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:25 am
#2
Oooops! I knew I'd do this: I forgot to add that the items that the Legendary clothing would, if we go with the second suggestion (the one where Tailors have an active role), the items would decay as normal. That way, you'd get repeat customers. Rangers could even have different sets of clothing to match their moods.
Just wanted to clear that up so you didnt' think we were utterly opposed to having clothing that decayed.
NJ62
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:25 am
#3
To be honest, I don't think that would fly, simply because I think the community is not too keen on making components - we much prefer making the final product. If you'll notice, many tailors don't sell components to other crafters because it's not creative and it's not fun. It's repetative and boring, and the only reason to make components for a lot of tailors is that components are a means for us to make our final products. Money is not much of an issue either way.
In short, the new content that we want is final products, not more subcomponents. Anyone else making a final product steps on our toes.
Anyone else have any points on this, or think I'm misrepresenting the situation?
Message Edited by NJ62 on 06-23-2004 08:30 AM
Phenix1050
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:32 am
#4
Okay, so you'd prefer if we collected all the sub-parts and then brought them to you for the final crafting?
As I stated, in my suggestion, that would be the prefered way of doing it. Since only Tailors could customise the clothes and make them better through experimentation, only people who wanted drab, generic, bad clothing would actually make it themself. The only thing is Rangers want new final products as well. I thought by offering people a choice, you could let them play the game the way they wanted. Fiercly independant people could still make the product (giving us a new final product, too) but you'd also have the ability to make these clothes (giving YOU a final product).
It's all about choice.
But I can see your point too. I have no problem with going to a Tailor. As you can tell, I think people who are overly indendant are missing a large part of the game. anyway, I think the point for many Rangers is having a unique set of clothing to get after Master Ranger. That way, we have some distinguishing items to prove that we are Legendary Hunters.
Like I said, I wanted suggestions, so this feedback may help us modify our original ideas. Thank you for responding quickly (in my opinion, one of the signs of a good correspondant) and once again, I apologize to anyone who feel offended by this idea.
Syzygy-Gorath
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:35 am
#5
One other thing to keep in mind, when tailors are presented with schematics and components for rare items the client generally feels that the tailor is an obstacle in the acquisition of their "phat lewt" rather than a helping hand. This attitude leads to the client wanting to pay only a paltry sum, not nearly what the service is worth, and also leads to abuse of the tailor. I've seen this far too often with the Publish 6 limited-use schematics, and I have no interest in seeing this sort of ideal perpetuated.
Phenix1050
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:38 am
#6
My only other "concern" would be concerning the material you would make the Legendary clothing out of. I would like to see it be a difficult schematic (in terms of resources). I think it should be made, in large part, out of hide. That way, the Ranger would also be able to give the tailor hide to craft the item. A little interdependance, if you will.
I'd like to see a new type of material for these jackets (perhaps useable on other new clothing you get)
My "concept" of the material that these jackets would use is a tough, leathery material that also has strong stiching and thin metal plates in it. Thus, the schematic for the material would require lots of hide (at least two types) , a little metal, some good fiberplast and perhaps some other stuff. This should, of course, be a very difficult piece of clothing to make, so both parties should go through quite a bit of trouble to make a great item.
NJ62
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:39 am
#7
The thing is - there are problems in practice that don't come out in theory. In theory the jabba schematics were supposed to be new content for tailors that would be fun. In practice, there's a gunbunny standing at your door holding a schematic in one hand, 2 pieces of looted heavy duty leather in the other hand, grunting "make me lewts" and complaing about any sort of payment (since he did all the work finding the items). In practice, the combat type sees me as an obstacle between him and his item (that he feels he rightly looted because all I have to do is "put it together"). Some tailors woudl probably prefer completed items to drop rather than act as a crafting machine.
What would make a lot of people happy is more mods on BE clothing - new tissues! New clothing that would stack mods! I think that would make both our communities happy.
There is a delicate balance between the desire for fun quests with good rewards and the desire for a robust player economy that only comes from crafter-made goods being comparable with or better than looted items.
Syzygy-Gorath
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:46 am
#8
Phenix1050 wrote:
My only other "concern" would be concerning the material you would make the Legendary clothing out of. I would like to see it be a difficult schematic (in terms of resources). I think it should be made, in large part, out of hide. That way, the Ranger would also be able to give the tailor hide to craft the item. A little interdependance, if you will.
I'd like to see a new type of material for these jackets (perhaps useable on other new clothing you get)
My "concept" of the material that these jackets would use is a tough, leathery material that also has strong stiching and thin metal plates in it. Thus, the schematic for the material would require lots of hide (at least two types) , a little metal, some good fiberplast and perhaps some other stuff. This should, of course, be a very difficult piece of clothing to make, so both parties should go through quite a bit of trouble to make a great item.
Liking the idea less and less—first, tailors don't tend to stock "high quality" resources, so we're talking about maintaining a stash specifically for this item. Next, you're wanting the ranger to provide roughly half the materials, furthering the "I provided everything" mentality. So…what are we left with? A tailor being handed a bunch of materials, having had to find and gather resources we normally wouldn't, and being told that we deserve at most, say, 5K because it's only our time since they got most of the ingredients.
I apreciate your interest in not stepping on our toes, but the direction this idea is taking isn't one that would interest this tailor.
Vesobe
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:52 am
#9
I'm pretty lucky with looted schematics - I mostly make them only for guild members at the moment, and they tend to be pretty happy topay me to make them.
However - would like to point out that saying the Legendary Clothing itmes would decay as normal may not win you any tailor votes, as at present clothes are completely functional at 0% condition. 
I don't mind "profession only" schematics in theory, but I dread to think what certain members of the combat community would make of them. As several people have pointed out, we're very rarely thanked for putting loot clothing together. (Outside of my guild, of course)
And as a whole, the tailor community seems very unimpressed that they're not involves with the upcoming Jedi Robes.
NJ62
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:53 am
#10
As stated in TH's response a few question cycles ago the 0 condition bug is slated to be fixed in patch 10.
Edit: see CLICKY
Message Edited by NJ62 on 06-23-2004 08:54 AM
Phenix1050
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:55 am
#11
Well thanks for your feedback.I'm glad I'm not getting griefed or flamed. It's nice to post in a forum where you don't get flamed for rocking the boat a little bit...are you sure you guys aren't Rangers who lost their way??
Let me scrap the ideas I presentedand ask you a question straight up, so that you can make suggestions. As I said, Rangers aren't married to any form of the quest, we just want it to happen in some way or another.
If there was to be a unique Quest that Rangers could go through to accquire a set of Legendary Clothes that (as we are proposing) add a small number of mods, how would the TAILORS like to see implemented? Do you want to be left out of it? Or do you want more creative control? What form do you see as the best for YOUR proffession?
Remember, forget ALL of my suggestions when thinking about these questions...I'm just spitballing, here...
Another idea that just popped into my head...in our ideas for the quest, you have to travel around to find a man name Jakra Lan, a Legendary Hunter who first created these clothes. Perhaps then, Tailors would have to accompany the Ranger, much like the Death Watch bunker?? Again, forget this idea when considering what to respond.just tell me how YOU would like to see it.
Inter-proffession ideas tend to be better anyway, since people tend to be biased and by discussing, better ideas are achieved.
Syzygy-Gorath
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:00 am
#12
Just off the top of my head, I'd like to see any such quest implemented in two parts:
The client part: the client would run a profession-specific quest to acquire a necessary, uncraftable component
The tailor part: the tailor would run a quest to permanently and non-transferably acquire the schematic
I believe that by making it clear that the tailor has put in as much time and effort as the [insert profession here] it can help to alleviate the "you just put this junk together" syndrome.
Phenix1050
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:13 am
#13
GREAT idea. I like that the tailor gets a quest too! That's a cool way to do it, since Tailors don't get enough quests (nor do any crafting profs, really)
My idea was that you get a permanent schematic too...not a one time thing. That way the Ranger (in this case) could make/mass produce the sub-parts...the tailor would (in the original idea) have a permanent schematic when they got Master, just like any other clothing.
But the idea of a quest REALLY kicks butt. Wow.
See?This is the reason to do cross-proffession ideas. You've just restored my faith in the forums, Syzygy-Gorath.
However, you've also managed to crush my faith in my ability to pronounce names...It took me ten minutes to get the first part of your name.
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