Tailor Archive
Thread: TOP 5 submitted 4/9/04
What I submitted:
Tailoring Top Issues as of 4/9/04
By NJ62, Tailor correspondent
A note about communication:
Tailors feel as if they are not being communicated with fairly and honestly. First, they feel that they ask for one thing, and keep receiving things they did not ask for (and may not like, i.e. Limited use schematics, wookiee armor segs, chef garb) without any word about the things they did ask for. In addition, they were told promising things about progress on the last top 5, yet most of those issues are still outstanding. The recent issue with socketing shows the communication breakdown – not only did the tailors have to wait a week for a simple explanation of whether it was a bug, but the explanation was posted in a general thread, rather than directly on the tailoring boards to the tailors, whom the change affected most.
1. Additional permanent schematics: both those that already exist in-game (as loot or on NPC’s) and new content.
Tailors want new permanent schematics. In particular they want schematics that they have been asking for, not looted schematics with difficult to find parts, or schematics that are part of another profession’s revamp. What is particularly frustrating to tailors is that some uncraftable clothing items exist in game, either as npc-wear or as drops (so the art already exists) and these items are not craftable. If at all possible, tailors also want new goal.
The already-in-game items (loot or npc-wear) are first priority, and they have been requested for a long, long time. I can’t stress enough how much the tailors desire these schematics that they see every day, and cannot make. Schematics (that don’t already exist as art in the game) but that may be a longer-term
A. Schematics already in the game (first priority)
•Leia's slave skirt
•Starter Scout Vest
•A hood-up cloak as seen on some NPC's
•Robe (with metal chestpiece)
•(Quilted) Vest
•Dark Sash
•(Warm) Boots
•(Winged Hot) Pants
•(Crisscross Striped) Pants
•(Camo) Pants (without Side Pockets)
B. New Schematics that are not in the game.
•HATS
oFedora (like Indiana Jones)
oQueen Amidala headwear
oPilot helmets from movies
oVeils (for wedding & dancing use)
•SHIRT/UPPER BODY
oTank top – Like Ubese top (Solid & mesh)
oHan Solo’s vest
•JACKET/COAT/CLOAK
oHooded cloak
oCape
oFormal (open to show off shirt/tie) suit jacket (plus matching slacks or Tux)
•BODYSUIT
oZippered rubber cat suit
oLeather look bodysuit
•LEGWEAR
oTights
oBellbottoms
oSocks (sports ankle & knee length)
oLoose straight leg pants
•WOOKIEE WEAR
oLong skirt/dress for female Wookiees
oMore wookiee clothing in general
•SKIMPY CLOTHING
oExotic leotard pants for men
oSarong
•JEWELRY
oVisible rings
oEarrings
oSlave collar
oChoker
•SKIRTS
oMiniskirts
•GLOVES
oLace up to elbow
oFingerless
•FOOTWEAR
oHigh-heeled skin-tight knee-high boots
oThigh-high boots
oPlatform knee-high boots
oStrappy formal sandals (wrap around ankle)
•ACCESSORIES
oGlasses/sunglasses
oHolsters
oArm wraps/bands (lower and upper arm)
oBow tie (separate item)
oDyeable feminine satchel
•DRESSES
oSlinky, ankle length, spaghetti straps, slits up sides
oKimono
oSkin-tight, thigh length, halter top, plunging back
2. The necklace bug (old issue): necklaces are not viewable in the crafting window or in the examine window. Fixed on TC as of 7/22.
Necklaces cannot be seen in the crafting window in order to colorize them. This has been a problem since release. They cannot be seen in inventory (except the item description). They cannot be seen in the examine window.
Here is the data that the community has gathered to help you track this bug.
•Some tailors have found that if you rotate the camera angle you can catch a glimpse of the necklace in the crafting window.
•Necklaces do appear when worn.
•They appear when dropped in a house.
•When they are dropped in a house, and then examined, they appear in the examine window. The necklace icon will also appear in inventory (and be able to be examined) if picked up after being dropped in the house. However, soon thereafter the icon and the ability to examine both disappear.
•There are two more uncraftable necklaces which you can get by doing missions for "criminals" in most towns. These are the black sun medallion and the dark jedi medallion.
oThey always show up correctly in the inventory, but if you try to wear them they can't be seen (but they will replace your old necklace).
oIf you try to drop either of these in a house, instead of floating at neck level, they sit half-way embedded in the floor. This might be the same relative position where the camera is placed when we try to craft necklaces.
Hopefully this data will help isolate and fix this old, annoying, issue.
3. Decay (old issue): fix 0/0 or 1/1 bug and implement use-based decay
The death-based decay is not working as intended. It does not work as renewable income because clothing is still equippable at 0/0 with all bonuses intact, and clothing only decays upon death, which does not affect some of our biggest clients (i.e. dancers).
A. Clothing should not be equippable at 0/0 or 1/1 and bonuses should not work Scheduled to be fixed in publish 10 (according to "19 questions")
Decay does nothing for renewable income because the clothing is still equippable at 0/0 or 1/1 and the skill tape or bioengineer bonuses still work. Effectively nobody will ever have to replace their clothing, or, for that matter, find new skill tapes – even if they do hunt in that item. (The reason I mention 1/1 is that a failed repair can leave an item at 1/1 and it has technically not decayed to 0/0 and never will – we don’t want people trying to avoid getting to 0/0 by intentionally failing repairs to get a 1/1 item).
B. Implement use-based decay
Tailors request a reasonable rate of decay for clothing that is equipped. Clothing that is not equipped should not decay. Under the current system, if an item is not worn hunting, it never decays. This means that clothing that is not carried on one’s person when one dies will never decay, but can be worn forever.
This also raises issues with the new socketing system – the old “pre-nerf” 4-socketed items will potentially never decay, and create a second-hand market and cheat tailors out of profits. In contrast, armor and weapons both decay with use, and it’s not so much of an issue to have “pre-nerf” items that decay because eventually they will disappear from circulation.
(Though tailors seem to be in agreement that use-based decay is a favorable idea, they disagree about whether experimentation and resource quality should affect the overall durability of an item. Mostly, tailors are concerned with time issues, because already they make clothing by hand, and now they would have to spend more time in both resource hunting and experimenting in item creation. Many tailors think that tailoring appeals to them as casual players because it’s “fun” and it doesn’t require math, or time-consuming marriages to resource shifts. Tailors are also concerned that new clothing would start out with sub-1000 stats, making the existing clothing “pre-nerf”. Because this would dramatically change the tailoring way of life, I would err on the side of the status quo in the face of split community opinion.)
4. Replace limited palettes (boots, wookiee wear, dusters, etc) with full 255-color palette for all items (old issue)
For a long time, tailors have been hoping to get rid of the secondary palettes and use the primary palette for all items. Expanded colors for the limited palettes was #4 of our last top 5. In order to facilitate the discussion, I will be referring to the palettes by letter as they appear on this chart.
The last top 5: Anabelle reported the following:
Expanded colors for Wookiees and Boots/Shoes.
"We have a big suprise for you soon."
This post has caused much confusion for the tailoring community, as it suggested that the secondary palettes were being expanded. The tailors feel as if they were promised something, whether the devs intended to promise something or not. Although there may be things in the works for tailors, tailors construe the word “soon” as meaning “in the next 2-3 months” not “sometime after the Space Expansion.”
A. Why the complete color palette should be assigned to all items:
•Matching is difficult: Many colors do not overlap, and it is particularly difficult to match shoes to the rest of the outfit. For example, there is no Palette D equivalent for the yellow on Palette A (which is the “boot” palette). Even when colors are purportedly the same (i.e. black and black) most tailors find that there are differences between the black on palette D versus the black on Palette A, differences which are unrelated to texture.
•Continuity is probably not an issue: I realize that we want to keep continuity, but as a practical matter, boots, gloves, dusters and all other items on the secondary palettes would not ruin the Star Wars feeling if offered in bright colors. After all, padded armor boots and gloves do come in the full palette.
•As for wookiees: I realize that wookiees traditionally are not supposed to wear bright colors, but as of now they can wear all the chef garments that are brightly colored, as well as the life day robe. They now have armor. Maybe we can "bend" the continuity rules?
B. If it’s not feasible to expand the palettes, then the following items that mis-color must be addressed (which would not need to be addressed if the palette for all items were 1 standard palette).
•The exotic leotard should come in the full palette
•Luxurious Dress: The Lace uses the leather pallet, it should use the full palette
•Sigled Waist Wrap: The Leather flap has the master color range and the skirt exterior does not. These two should swap
•The Desert Command Jacket should come in the full spectrum and not the leather palette
•The Smock should come in the full spectrum, and not the leather palette.
5. Increase the current item socketing rate: reevaluate the new system that has reduced the socketing rate that tailors and the community are accustomed to. TH stated in his clarification on our "19 questions" socketing question that he is pushing for masters to consistently get 3-4 sockets, because they are masters.
Tailors would like this new socketing system reevaluated and have a more reasonable system implemented. Under this new system, a tailor will not begin to see a single socket until “Tailoring 3” and a master tailor gets 4-sockets approximately 10% of the time, and an average of 2 sockets. A more reasonable system would have a small chance of 1 socket at tailoring 1, with master tailors getting exclusively 3 and 4 socket items (with the occasional “crit fail” of a 2-socket item).
Tailors understand that it was not intended for 4-socket items to be the norm. This new system, however, does not exist in a vacuum, and we have to deal with customer perceptions and the items that already exist in the game world.
Although this socketing system is not necessarily unfair in itself, its implementation at this point in the game is highly detrimental to tailors. Consider the following:
•With no decay system, tailors will be competing with the second-hand clothing market. Potentially the pre-nerf clothing will be more desirable than the tailors’ new “inferior” products.
•Tailoring is already time-consuming enough. Every item must be made by hand. The process will be tedious if items must be re-done to create 4 sockets.
•The market expects, and is flooded with 4-socket items. I think the situation would be vastly different if the current system had been working properly from the start. It is frustrating to change the rules this late in the game when everyone for 9 months has become used to this system.
•Tailors have furthermore expressed frustration that Sony has stated that it would rather not "nerf" professions, but rather would try to balance professions while making them "fun." Tailors think that re-making items is not fun.
•In addition, there is nothing that unbalancing about having 4 sockets be the norm. Very rarely do people have a plethora of skill tapes and not enough sockets for them. What is far more unbalancing is that someone can get a 4 socket outfit, whether it takes 100 tries, slap in the skill tapes, and never ever need to buy new clothes or find new skill tapes.
(Some tailors have expressed, if it’s not feasible to return the old socketing system (or an increased socketing system), that they would like some control over the finished product via experimentation and resource quality, while others feel that experimentation is not desirable and would make the profession less “fun”. Mostly, tailors are concerned with time issues, because already they make clothing by hand, and now they would have to spend more time in both resource hunting and experimenting in item creation. Many tailors think that tailoring appeals to them as casual players because it’s “fun” and it doesn’t require math, or time-consuming marriages to resource shifts. Because this would dramatically change the tailoring way of life, I would err on the side of the status quo in the face of split community opinion.)
6. Expand our "standard" color palette (i.e. the one used for most clothing items) to include new colors.
In order to facilitate the discussion, I will be referring to the palettes by letter as they appear on this chart [chart is linked in MSWORD doc sent to devs]. The standard palette is palette D.
•Yellow: we lack a “primary color” yellow (i.e. HTML color FFFF00) on the main palette (Palette D). The current yellow on the main palette (Palette D) is a mustardy color that fades out into a pale baby yellow, but never achieves the saturation of a primary color yellow. A closer, better-saturated yellow (more of a "golden yellow") is available on the “leather” palette used for boots (Palette A).
oThis is the current mustardy yellow available for the bulk of the items (Palette D)
oWe would like to add a primary color yellow (HTML color FFFF00) to the main palette (Palette D). If it's not feasible to provide a true primary yellow, then perhaps it is possible to add the already-existing golden yellow (which is currently in Palette A) to the main palette (Palette D).
•Deep Red: the dress robe has a different palette from the other garments (Palette F) and in that palette there is a deep dark red, which the tailors have requested in addition to their “fire engine red.”
oThis is the current fire engine red
oWe would like to add this deep red from Palette F to the main Palette D
•Aqua: there is an aqua color in the metallic palette (Palette C) which the tailors have requested added to the main palette (Palette D).
•Additional darker versions of existing colors (deep blue, deep purple) have also been requested.
Requested in 6/6 document: Additional neon colors to match ID colors.
7. Add in a "numbering" system to our color grid to make matching easier.
Tailors are interested in a grid so that each color is assigned a number. These numbers would appear in a box in the crafting window when a color was selected. A tailor could choose to then include the color code in the name of the item for matching purposes. It would be even better if the color were "assigned" to the item as a stat, so when you examine the item, you could see the color code (just as when you examine a weapon you can see all its pertinent stats).
8. Outstanding Clipping & Fitting issues (old issue)
In particular, the “hula hoop belts” are a big issue, as we have many belts, and nobody wears them because they do not fit properly. Customers insist, however, that mabari belts do fit properly, and thus we lose business to armorsmiths.
•Low Cut Top has dent in left side of exposed torso area
•Legs poke through the Two-Tone Formal Skirt, both when running and when sitting (with legs crossed).
•Silver pendant does not layer correctly with luxurious gown, neck scarf hides it.
•Back packs do not layer correctly with cloaks, causing clipping to occur.
•Bikini leggings worn by men let the skin appear on the thigh and legs when they move.
•Rebel Marine Backpack does not show up when wearing with Gunman's Duster.
•Necklaces for the most part do not fit well around the neck and often float
•Jackets on Females do not seem to scale properly, making waist line unnaturally small, shoulders over-padded.
•Luxurious Dress and Decorative Belt do not display colors correctly from a distance where the quality shifts to low-grade mode. Turning the item either white or color 1 when worn
•Belts and bandoliers in general do not fit correctly around the waist, usually looking very bulky or floating inches away from the waist. They also expand to wear over the jacket where they should wear under the jacket or robe or fit snug instead of bulky
•Metal Color Bleed on Councilman's Robe: seems that the underside of the belt of this robe bleeds out onto the gown itself. Also bleeds around the cuffs.
•Short Robe reveals naughty bits when seated
•Noble's skirt shows thighs and a bit of derriere when running
•Doctor's dress shows backs of boots when running
•cloaked dress shows backs of boots when running
Message Edited by NJ62 on 04-09-2004 09:17 AM
Message Edited by NJ62 on 07-17-2004 05:11 PM
Message Edited by NJ62 on 07-23-2004 10:22 AM
Message Edited by NJ62 on 07-23-2004 10:30 AM
•Fighter Flight Suit
•Heavy Flight Suit
•Trader Flight Suit
•Transport Flight Suit
•Luxurious Gown
•Pleated Dress
•Light Bustier
•Ammo Bandolier
•Mercenary Bandolier
•Multipocket Bandolier
All our oustanding vendor issues were sent to DocSavag (Merchant Correspondent) for him to incorporate into his document for the merchant revamp.
•"Dummy" Categories:
oEyewear: currently no eyewear. We would love to have eyewear, but if that is never to be (alas) we would like this category removed to prevent confusion
oCapes: Again, currently no capes. We would love to be able to make capes in the future, but if that is never to be, it’s very frustrating to have customers insist that such things do exist because of a category on the vendor.
•Non-Functional Categories:
oSkirts: currently all skirts are classified as "misc clothing," and the "skirt" category is empty. All misc clothing items should be moved to “skirts” (except wookiee skirts, see below)
oWookiee Wear: Currently wookiee items are classified by whatever parts of the body they cover, rather than as wookiee wear. This category is confusing because customers may assume that there is no wookiee wear on the vendor because this category is empty. In addition, customers may buy items such as the "crested battle padding" which does not have the word "wookiee" in the title, because it is in with the rest of the "shirts".
•The exotic leotard should be classified as a "bodysuit" not a "dress"
•The Gunman Duster should be classified as a "jacket" not a "robe".
•The Smock should be classified as a "robe" not a "dress". (It’s male-only and men don’t naturally look under “dresses”)
•The Dress Robe should be classified as a "robe" not a "jacket".
•The Short Skirt should be classified as a "skirt" not "pants"
•The Short Wrap should be classified as a "skirt" not "pants
•Would like a leather texture available (as a toggle at colorization) for pants, jackets and dusters
•The suit jacket has a texture that causes it always to look "too dark" and it's difficult to match. It looks dirty in white. It could be shifted to be more like the patterned slip dress and keep its shiny look while taking color properly
•The simple vest always looks washed-out in dark colors
•The noble's skirt is problematic because the peach side-panels interfere with colorization
•Long Gloves should be wearable over Jackets
•If it cannot be worn together, it should be labeled as such (see #9)
•Because so few items take reinforced fiber panels, everyone who has BE clothing “looks the same” and it’s frustrating to a tailor’s sense of style.
•The items that have reinforced fiber panels never require two separate-slot panels. This means that you can only get one combat bonus per garment. In contrast, many items have 2 separate slots for synth panels, making it much easier to stack medical bonuses into items.
•There are no hats that take reinforced fiber panels (but plenty that take one or more synth cloths).
•Wookiee gear lacks reinforced fiber panels.
oonly one wookiee garment requires a reinforced fiber panel (Wookiee Shoulder Pad).
oWith the wookiee shoulder pad & a bandolier, wookiees may only have 2 bonuses total (other species can usually have 4: pants, shirt, jacket, bandolier)
oThe Crested Battle Padding and Wookiee Battle Padding are both field gear items and should take one or more reinforced fiber panels. I brought this point to the devs' attention at fanfest.
oWookiees need a "skirt" option with a reinforced fiber panel in order to correct this disadvantage, so that a wookiee would be able to gain 3 combat bonuses
Wookiees cannot wear the crafting aprons. They might rip off my arms.
Males cannot wear the dancer leotard – there needs to be an equivalent item for male dancers.
The demolitionist belt adds bonuses to Grenade Assembly and Grenade Experimentation, which are useless since Commando crafting was removed from the game
Several items require crafting tools as ingredients. However it is impossible to see whether a crafting tool has decayed. Tailors are getting error messages that the tools are too damaged to use in the schematic.
•Crit failing on an item causes many tailors to lose a use on the limited-use schematic. The tailors are confused about this issue because the official word was that a use would not be deducted after a critical fail. One tailor reported that she did not have a use deducted after a critical fail, but only because she left the crafting tool open, happened to have an extra component, and proceeded to re-craft the item. Another tailor also reported that he didn't lose a use after crit failing, and I don't know whether he proceeded to craft a second.
•Accessing the resource input screen for a schematic sometimes causes loss of a use. In particular, this happens to tailors who open the schematic, start loading ingredients, and realize that they left something in another house, close out the crafting station, and lose a use. It doesn't appear to matter whether the tailor uses the "back" button or the "escape" key. It also seems unrelated to whether a tailor has started loading ingredients or not, as it has happened in both scenarios. This happens randomly, as some tailors have had no problem with backing out of the crafting screen.
•Closing out the crafting session on the input screen has caused loss of ingredients. One tailor reported that she loaded in the looted components, but forgot a resource, clicked "back" and lost the leathers (and a schematic use.)
•Errors that are not critical fails have ended the session, wasted a "use", and eaten ingredients, after the tailor clicks "create prototype.
oOne tailor reports that he clicked "create prototype" and he received spam that his uses were gone, but the tool failed to produce the item.
oAnother tailor reported that not only did his tool fail to create the item (though he had not critical failed) but two uses were deducted.
oA third tailor hit "create prototype" and ended up with a "crafting station ended" message which deducted a use and ate all materials.
- bioengineer
- combat medic
- musician
- armorsmith
- artisan
•Tech Pack
•Non-master tailors cannot colorize “option 3” on a 3-color item
•Sockets in backpacks are non-functional (are they supposed to take skill tapes?)
•Mon cal cannot wear long gloves
•When wookiees equip a chef apron + wookiee arm wraps = wookiee hands disappear
Message Edited by NJ62 on 04-09-2004 09:19 AM
Message Edited by NJ62 on 07-17-2004 05:14 PM
Message Edited by NJ62 on 07-23-2004 10:28 AM
wow, what a list, you think they will actually READ it this time?
thank you for all your hard work 
Anyway, just wanted to give a yell. I'm going to be making a tailor character on Kettemoor, so I might be frequenting here a bit.Kel