Tailor Archive
Thread: The Law of Unintended Consequences
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Syzygy-Gorath
Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:10 am
#1
Bear in mind through all of this that this information comes from TestCenter, and is subject to change at any time.
With that said, equipping a piece of armor is now treated as a 10 second duration special attack. You can't equip more than one piece of armor at a time, and it takes over a minute to fully equip a suit of armor. Once the equip process has begun the clothing in that slot is removed, effectively forcing you to be naked for 10-20 seconds.
You may be thinking "I'm a tailor, why do I care about armor?" Here's why: with it taking a minute to fully equip a suit there is even less incentive for combat types to ever come out of their armor. Less incentive to come out of armor means less reason to buy clothes. Less reason to buy clothes means less use for our profession.
So, thank you SOE for once again proving that you lack any ability to come up with ways to make me WANT to stay in game an extra minute, and instead implementing ways to MAKE me stay in game an extra minute. I'm now waiting for this game to fail miserably, and I hope that when it does those responsible for the design decisions—Runesabre in particular—are never given another opportunity to destroy a game that showed as much promise as SWG did. That's right, I hope you never work in this industry again.
Message Edited by Syzygy-Gorath on 06-03-2004 08:10 AM
Elhana
Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:02 am
#2
hmm, what if armour had a "smell factor" longer you wear it the more it puts your group members off whatever they're doing? 
Seriously though, don't most of the combat types go around wearing composite enough already without giving them another reason to never take the stuff off?
Mystyrys
Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:22 am
#3
Why? What is the purpose in having armor equippable only one piece at a time, and with the time delay?
Syzygy-Gorath
Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:24 am
#4
I would imagine it's an effort at making things more tactical—in general this is a good thing. Unfortunately, as with many of the recent changes, the implementation sucks. It's not that the ideas they have are bad per se, it's just that they add them to the game in such damaging ways…it makes me want to cry.
Mystyrys wrote:
Why? What is the purpose in having armor equippable only one piece at a time, and with the time delay?
jfang
Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:29 am
#5
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:
Bear in mind through all of this that this information comes from TestCenter, and is subject to change at any time.
With that said, equipping a piece of armor is now treated as a 10 second duration special attack. You can't equip more than one piece of armor at a time, and it takes over a minute to fully equip a suit of armor. Once the equip process has begun the clothing in that slot is removed, effectively forcing you to be naked for 10-20 seconds.
You may be thinking "I'm a tailor, why do I care about armor?" Here's why: with it taking a minute to fully equip a suit there is even less incentive for combat types to ever come out of their armor. Less incentive to come out of armor means less reason to buy clothes. Less reason to buy clothes means less use for our profession.
So, thank you SOE for once again proving that you lack any ability to come up with ways to make me WANT to stay in game an extra minute, and instead implementing ways to MAKE me stay in game an extra minute. I'm now waiting for this game to fail miserably, and I hope that when it does those responsible for the design decisions—Runesabre in particular—are never given another opportunity to destroy a game that showed as much promise as SWG did. That's right, I hope you never work in this industry again.
Message Edited by Syzygy-Gorath on 06-03-2004 08:10 AM
Alternatively, since it is so hard to get into and out of armor, the incentive for the non-PvP power gamer to wear armor goes down. It mandates using buffs to fight which are inconvenient (waiting 20 minutes in line in coronet), and you can not just jump out of the suit to regenerate after combat which slows down non-buffed players. As such, the sale of BE enhanced clothing might go up as well, as casual PvE players don't want to mess with armor as much, but still want something useful to wear around when fighting.
I'm not saying I'm right, and I'm not saying you're right. However, unintented consequences go both ways. Until it hits live with the "real" player base, who can say what the consequences are. I can easily imagine tailor sales hitting an all time high...
Syzygy-Gorath
Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:38 am
#6
jfang wrote:
Alternatively, since it is so hard to get into and out of armor, the incentive for the non-PvP power gamer to wear armor goes down. It mandates using buffs to fight which are inconvenient (waiting 20 minutes in line in coronet), and you can not just jump out of the suit to regenerate after combat which slows down non-buffed players. As such, the sale of BE enhanced clothing might go up as well, as casual PvE players don't want to mess with armor as much, but still want something useful to wear around when fighting.
I'm not saying I'm right, and I'm not saying you're right. However, unintented consequences go both ways. Until it hits live with the "real" player base, who can say what the consequences are. I can easily imagine tailor sales hitting an all time high...
Yeah…uh…sorry, but no. I do a lot of PvE and even I don't use my own wares. Nothing we can make can measure up to the benefits provided by a suit of 70+% Kinetic Ubese in PvE, and I don't have to be buffed to wear mine. Heck, I can even spam specials in it—I just have to stim after each MOB. The simple fact is, we can't compete with armor when it comes to mid- to high-end PvE content, and we damn sure can't compete when it comes to PvP.
Edit: it doesn't take any time to take the armor off, only to put it back on, so you can regen between lairs without as much hassle—I'm just really annoyed that the devs are FORCING me to nudity and delaying the start of my hunt even longer than they already do with those ridiculous shuttle waits.
Message Edited by Syzygy-Gorath on 06-03-2004 11:41 AM
Mystyrys
Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:24 am
#8
I don't PvP, but the image that came into my mind was a guy sitting in town getting healed or shopping. He takes off his armor. He gets scanned and TEF'd. Someone comes along and starts shooting at him. It takes this guy a full minute to get suited up for combat? What if he has to buff with food and/or spice to get his suit on too? Add another 30 seconds or so? Won't he be dead by then anyway?
Rizzaka
Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:25 am
#9
Now this is a horrible idea on so many levels i can't find a place to start. I agree this is something hasn't been clearly thought through. Ugh i can't convey how disgusted i am by that. If anything it'll ruin my armor maco 
i put them all into a pane and have it equip my armor as i shout "ARMOR ON!" or some other such catchy phrase... now it'll take me a minute and i'll look like a geriatic super hero
i put them all into a pane and have it equip my armor as i shout "ARMOR ON!" or some other such catchy phrase... now it'll take me a minute and i'll look like a geriatic super hero
Syzygy-Gorath
Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:32 am
#10
One quibble—scans don't TEF you; they turn you overt. So much for no forced PvP, and so much for an hour of my game time. And yeah, that's about what I thought on noticing this change—I don't like walking around in armor. I try to avoid it if I can. But if I have to wait a minute for it to equip you can be damn sure I'm not going anyplace I might get attacked/turned overt without it on. Great…a master tailor/master image designer in full composite all the time. Thanks SOE, love ya ya **self-edit** morons.
Mystyrys wrote:
I don't PvP, but the image that came into my mind was a guy sitting in town getting healed or shopping. He takes off his armor. He gets scanned and TEF'd. Someone comes along and starts shooting at him. It takes this guy a full minute to get suited up for combat? What if he has to buff with food and/or spice to get his suit on too? Add another 30 seconds or so? Won't he be dead by then anyway?
jfang
Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:42 am
#11
Mystyrys wrote:
I don't PvP, but the image that came into my mind was a guy sitting in town getting healed or shopping. He takes off his armor. He gets scanned and TEF'd. Someone comes along and starts shooting at him. It takes this guy a full minute to get suited up for combat? What if he has to buff with food and/or spice to get his suit on too? Add another 30 seconds or so? Won't he be dead by then anyway?
That exactly is the point of the change. As it was before, because it was so easy to throw on armor, it defeated half of the purpose of the secondary encumberances. (You could take armor off in less than a second to heal, then put it back on if you ran into some problems.) As it is now, wearing armor is starting to have some penalities involved with it, as designed. So you can take off your armor to heal faster inmedical center, or keep it on and wait longer but be safer.There is a trade off here, as opposed to before where you would of course leave the armor off because you could instantly reequip it with the touch of a button.
If you cross this change with some buff changes (which is entirely expect to happen, although I have not heard an official line about this myself), you might end up with a situation where not everybody is running around in heavy composite armor.
Furthermore, this is more realistic as well. In real life, if you want to change your shirt (let alone a heavy chest plate), it will take a few seconds to do so. Now I know this is a game, and there are countless other unrealistic things in the game as well (such as keeping a vehicle in a datapad in your pocket), but just something to keep in mind...
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:46 am
#12
Yea, that's terrible, but they already have a huge huge huge incentive to never remove their armor and that's the whole "once you take it off you have to buff to get it back on again" thing. Really really really stupid and is an absolute killer to us.
Syzygy-Gorath
Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:00 am
#13
jfang wrote:
Furthermore, this is more realistic as well. In real life, if you want to change your shirt (let alone a heavy chest plate), it will take a few seconds to do so. Now I know this is a game, and there are countless other unrealistic things in the game as well (such as keeping a vehicle in a datapad in your pocket), but just something to keep in mind...
I don't mind the realism of it—but as you point out, this is a game. The tailor profession is already at a significant disadvantage in terms of balance of use, and this change only makes it that much worse. They claim to be attempting to balance the game, but so far all I see is further imbalance and added timesinks. This does not make me hopeful for the future.
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