Tailor Archive
Thread: Tailor Nerf? Colorization for all?
Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing? Apparently not. To fix the armor color bug, they put in this temp patch so anyone could recolor their armor. Temporary patch. But, well now, over in the Armorsmith and Image Designer forums, There's this new idea being tossed around that this feature be kept in some fashion. To either let IDs be able to "dye" clothing and armor, to allowing artisans to craft dye packs that anyone could buy and use, and variations thereof.
Excuse me? Tailors get 255 colors at Master and spend the greater part of our time (and fun) using our "Skills" to make colored items. And now there's serious talk of taking that and giving it to everyone? How many skill points, credits, and hours and hours of resource gathering, crafting, selling, etc., did I spend on the skill to make more colors again? And they want to give this skill to everyone and anyone who spent nothing to get it?
Oh heck yeah. Buy one shirt from a tailor in white, and from then on all you gotta do is click on a dye pack or find an ID to make it any color you want, any time you want. All a Master Tailorwould have to differentiate them from any other tailorwould bethe level of schematics we have. You could buy a simple shirt from a newbie, take two steps over to the bazaar and buy a red dye pack or find an ID and voila! Master color red simple shirt.
Bah. When did someone get the idea to paint targets on Tailor's foreheads? Merchant vendor nerf. Bazaar cap raised nerf. Now they are discussing taking away our colors too? Color nerf? GAH!
Links to threads:
Armorsmith Forum:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=armorsmith&message.id=28512
Image Designer Forum:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=image_designer&message.id=7755
Actually - I'm not all THAT opposed to this idea - however, I think they should make the dye something NPCs do - or are purchased from NPCs - that would provide a very needed credit sink.
As a tailor, I don't think it would impact my business all that much, and the convienence factor and stocking has to come in there somewhere. If they ever get decay working - I'll have plenty of business.
Heh, first they wanted to keep the BE-mods-in-armor bug, and now this?
I'magainst this idea, at least in the way they seem to be talking about it. Clothes (unlike full sets of armor) don't cost that much in the first place. So offering dye kits without a lot of qualifications may wind up cutting into our repeat sales. I saw some of those threads after they were just started, but didn't follow up with them so I'm not sure how the idea has evolved. But I definately didn't care for the idea of professions other than tailor being able to change clothing color!
If the following things were implemented with this idea, it may wind up being okay. It's still not anything I'd want to push for, but at least it wouldn't annoy me. 
- dye kits would have to be made by tailors to keep clothing specialization in our profession instead of giving it to others. I'm against giving our high-level colors to anyone who hasn't spent the skill points to earn them.
- they'd have to require alarge enoughamount of specific resources, preferably of a type that tailors don't ordinarily keep around. This would help ensure that the prices for them would be relatively high, and may make production of them unattractive to the holo tailors (who are already dumping high level tailor items on the bazaars, I wouldn't want them to start mass-producing dye kits and undercutting whatever the average pricing).
- the prices on these should be high enough to make it cheaper to buy lower-cost tailored items in a new color than to buy the dye packs. Some people would stillre-dye lower level clothes, but they'd probably do it mostly for the novelty and fun of doing it themselves. And keeping the prices high would also ensure that there wouldn't be much profit in, say, buyinga lot of low-level clothing, dying it master level colors, and then reselling it.
- the kits should be tailor only (not starting in the dom arts tree), and would preferably start in the Tailoring I box. To be perfectly honest, I'm saying put them in Tailoring I instead of Novice in order to keep them out of the vendors of all the "0-2-0-0 in tailoring" armorsmiths. If dabbler tailors want them, they should have to spend the skillpoints to get to our first Tailoring box.
- there could be a type of kit for each color skill level,so the Tailoring I kit would give only that level's colors and so on. This would keep master colors in the hands of masters, but give lower level tailors something to sell because their kits could dye clothesall of the popular neutral colors.A lower level kitshould take fewer resources and would be less expensive, so a customer who just wantsto dye black could buy the cheaper kit from a lower level tailor.
- using a kit would permanently reduce the max condition of an item by a considerable amount (maybe 75-100 points). So those who use the kits a lot would be buying new clothes on a regular basis. The higher level kits with more available colors should permanently decay clothing more than the lower-level packs.
- use-based clothing decay would have to be implemented. This would be necessary, otherwise a high level item could still (even though it decays with each dye job) wind up lasting far too long.
- the dye kit interface would have to be similar to the current armor dye interface. For those who haven't seen it, the customer can only see the color pallet, they don't get an interface similar to our crafting customization one. The customer should have to actually use the dye kit and deal with all the effects of it (using the kit up, and the max condition decay) to see the color on the finished product. A non-tailor should never be able to see in advancehow the color would look on the finished product just by mousing over it. Clothing dying for non-tailors should take a bit of guesswork, and those who are that picky about a specific shade may have to try a few times before getting it right. Of course those who used the kits a lot would get better at color matching, but even then they'd have to start dealing with our issues on how each item takes color differently.
Just a few ideas I had while I was thinking about this topic. This went from a quick post to a long-winded mess somehow... sorry about that. 
But we have so many other issues that should be much higher priority, if this was implemented over our wishlist items, it would be pretty annoying. And like I said, I wouldn't want to push for this idea much. Even if we came up among ourselves with a perfect implementation that would make us all happy, what are the chances they'd use our ideas on the subject instead of coming up with their own system that was nowhere close to what we wanted. Then they'd say "look, we gave you what you asked for!" even though it wasn't really... just like with decay.
If they do something like this, I'll just give up tailor. What's the point? The main reason I've still got it is so I'll have the ability to make clothes for myself in any color and pattern I want, anytime I want (and to a lesser extent, my friends and guildmates). This will remove that final impetus to retain the skill. I'll make several sets of items I'm likely to need or want, then just drop the tailoring skills altogether and recolor my clothes anytime I want to (since decaydoesn't work properly for clothes anyway, what does it matter?).
SOE are complete and utter fools if they don't see how this will hurt the tailoring profession. If they're capable of doing this, it may be the last blow to my rapidly deteriorating faith in them and their vision of this game. They just don't seem to even try to think how the changes they make will damage existing professions. And they certainly don't seem to give a flying $hit about tailors.
Sriva wrote:SOE are complete and utter fools if they don't see how this will hurt the tailoring profession. If they're capable of doing this, it may be the last blow to my rapidly deteriorating faith in them and their vision of this game. They just don't seem to even try to think how the changes they make will damage existing professions. And they certainly don't seem to give a flying $hit about tailors.
Just because some people have suggested it, that doesn't mean that there are any plans for it to be done. If it was a suggestion by one of the developers I would be pretty nervous since those suggestions usually end up in the game no matter who protests (like this stupid decay scheme that they have, for example). I am not too worried about players being able to color their own clothes. It is not likely to happen. Now the vendor nerfs on the other hand....
What would you guys think about giving the ability to recolor clothing only tailors (and recolor armor only to armorsmiths)?
I know there have been times when I would have loved to been able to recolor something I made for a customer... You know the ones who can't seem to make up their minds.
What restrictions would you want to see on it? Do you think this would adversely affect your business?
The main thing I *don't* want is a widely available recoloring option that can be routinely done by non-tailors. Or even just by tailors, really. It's kind of like my reaction to the whole decay issue. Theoretically, yeah, we need some sort of real decay. But as a practical matter, I want to make and sell clothes. I don't want to have to be spending a lot of *my* time repairing and recoloring clothes. It's probably not something I can charge enough for to be worth my time, and carries its own little annoyances. (E.g., I have to *make* a bunch of dye kits, if it's a tailoring thing, or find someone else to make them for me, if it's an Artisan-type thing.)
On the whole, I'd rather just not have recoloring options at all.
SueDenim wrote:
On the whole, I'd rather just not have recoloring options at all.
Agree 100%.
Ri'a
Sergia/Midnight Sun
No reason to get all upset about either of these. Why would we care about people's ability to color armor? Might even make things simpler for tailors.I'vebeen stumped more than once by a customer asking me to match an item of clothing to the color of their armor. Also, I say let the ID's color clothing. That's fine with me. Do you know how rare ID's are? They seem to need more benefits anyway since I see an ID wearing their tag about as often as I see a chef.
Of course I would be opposed to anything that allowed customers from coloring their own clothing though, but I don't think there is any way in heck that will happen. Not because they care about invalidating our tailoring branch which was already invalidated enough by removing experimentation, but just simply because it's likely one of those "high effort, low gain" kind of activities for the developers. It simply won't happen.
Everytime they nerf something (vendor item limits, decay, experimentation, blah blah blah) people scream bloody murder and threaten to quit.
On this subject, however, I join the mutiny. No way in hell will I have any semblance of a buisness left if everyone could color their own clothing. There is not one shred of evidence you could offer that would convince me that this would be anything other than terminate the Tailor profession.
Just went and read that thread in the Armorcrafter boards...oddly enough most armorcrafters are FOR the colors to be adjusted by the consumer!! I had no idea that profession was so lazy LOL.....
I think I can speak for most of the Master Tailors here and say that we rely on selling the same item in several colors to keep our buisness alive, and welcome the 'work' it takes to keep a well stocked variety. Boy if they come around here with THAT nerfbat, I hope everyone will join me in pitching a fit like Sony has never seen!!!!
/rraaarrrr!!!!
Armorcrafting is different because
- armor has statsand experimentation matters. Therefore, with all the crits, it's more efficient to make it in factory. But that forecloses colorization. It's worth it to make it in factory and just tell customers that you don't do custom orders. They buy it anyway.
- Armor wears out regardless of death decay. Therefore repeat business is not an issue. Rarely will the client want more than one set.
Tailoring is different. I can see both sides to the issue (because I'm also an image designer). On the one hand, this will clamp down on our repeat business, and stifle creativity. On the other hand, this will be a major boost to novice tailors and cut down on the need for grinding, will cut down on vendor items, and will solve "problem client" issues.
I think that if a person asks for an identical outfit in a new color, chances are he or she doesn't want to replace the old outfit, but wants them to be interchangeable. I think I would be on board for color changes if 1) they're difficult (i.e. only certain professions can do them) and 2) they're expensive. For example, making the master colors may use extremely rare materials (so it would only really be "worth it" to dye BE clothing). I don't really think customers shoudl be able to dye their own clothes, because then they will buy more dye, rather than more clothes.
Ack, I don't know, I've always wanted the ability to change the color on something already made, but on the other hand it may hurt business.