Tailor Archive

I think it's clear that we've come up with a lot of different and creative ways to approach the dye issue in Kwee's poll. However, it's not clear to me, from the voting, exactly what effect any of these options will have on the tailor community.

Let's take the time to consider the ramifications of the various colorization options that have been suggested.

Example 1: Allow dyeing by any tailor at any time, any garment, based on skill level.

Pros:

• Novice tailors will actually be able to sell items - they can be dyed later


• We don't have to redo items, we just have to recolor them. This helps in difficult customer situations.

Cons:

• Potential influx of customers wanting dye on bazaar items and/or novice tailor items. May put additional strain on masters.


• Masters would be dyeing potentially more than making colorful items. May sap profits (of course, that may work in favor of novices, so on balance, this may slow the grind to master)


• Kill repeat business in favor of redying favorite outfits. Personally I'm not sure this will be a problem because usually people want 2 outfits in the same color so they can wear them interchangeably, not because they are bored with color #1

Potential solution:

• Allow same-day dyeing by the item creator at no resource cost. That allows color-changes for matching purposes. Problematic if it's an older item or a crate item.


• After the server reset colors become permanent and may be changed only with dye kits. Dye kits are craftable items, potentially taking more materials for the "elite" colors.

Example 2: Allow dyeing at any time, by creator only

Pros:

• You won't lose business to another tailor


• You won't have your name on something that you consider a pukey color


• once again, you can tweak color to match an order


• You will not be called upon to dye other tailors' work - which might become a chore to dye bazaar items and novice tailor items.

Cons:

• Tell hell - when I think about how many items I have in circulation after this many months of being a master tailor, I shudder. Please please, don't try to track me down to redye your item!


• The same issues as above: repeat sales


• People who have items from hologrinders who have since dropped the profession cannot have their items recolored.

Potential Solution:

• I just think that this is opening the door to trouble. I definitely would support a time limit on this dyeing ability. It would be nice for the creator to be able to recolor until server reset, for matching purposes. However, there are problems with items being crate-created or simply more than one day old.


• if the "redye timer" were set off by the first dye job this is problematic becuase you have no way of knowing whether your item has been redyed or not (it's like a slice).


• Ultimately when I think about this idea, it's not practicable.

Example 3: dye can only be done a certain number of times

Pros:

• not too much tell hell

Cons:

• Doesn't deal with the difficult customer/matching scenario very well


• how would you know how many times your item has been dyed? (like slicing - how do you know if armor is sliced or not until you try to slice it)

Example 4: dye reduces the overall quality of an item

Pros:

• People will not be dyeing their items every day. Will put a limit on the dye jobs

Cons:

• Until decay means something, this provision has no "bite."


• professions who never go out hunting will find the decay irrelevant.

I'm sure I'm missing some of our combinations that we thought up, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling on discussing the ramifications of the various suggestions for post-creation dye. Please add your thoughts about these issues, or other combinations.

How about dye kits made by tailors, and only in colors allowed at said tailor's current level? And the dye kit only has one use? So, then, master tailors would be selling the kits with the best colors, and making profit off them?

And then there is no point making any clothing of any colour but black. Master tailors would become paint sellers, and people would buy any colour around, it wouldn't matter.

Yes, there is a point, because why buy a shirt and then buy a kit when you can have the tailor make it for you? Adding kits would make something tailors could sell along with their regular clothes. If tailors started just selling black clothes or white clothes and the dye kits, sorry, but I wouldn't buy, I'd keep my current wardrobe and leave it at that. The dyes give people a chance to change the colors on some of their current clothes if they wanted, doesn't stop them from going off and buying new clothes in colors they want, I'd rather not buy the clothes and an addition to get it the color I want. And you guys would still be making credits off it.

Which sounds like what you're after anyway, mind you.

You guys called for decay, you got it, and from what I heard nearly put a good deal of tailors out of business because people stopped buying things. The dyes get put in and people are still buying a service from you and giving you credits for clothes they already own. If they want new clothes in a certain color, they'll most likely order the clothes in that color and use the buy one color item and then a kit as a last resort deal. Not to mention, people'd probably put the kits up for 5k anyway.

---

ChaoKuang wrote:
You guys called for decay, you got it, and from what I heard nearly put a good deal of tailors out of business because people stopped buying things.

---

*sigh*

I wish people would stop trying to sneak the decay issue into every single tailoring topic. I don't mean to sound rude, but after the number of times I've written out long detailed posts contradicting the "you got that decay you wanted" position, I'm a little tired of repeating myself. Claiming that tailors wanted death decay in any way shape or form is plain ignorance of the history of that issue. I'll refrain from saying more out of respect for this thread, I don't want to hijack. If you actually care about the real history of tailors and death decay, I posted yet another partial explaination of it here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=tailor&message.id=23165

This is an excellent thread on a very hot topic, so I apologize again for going on my little pet peeve tangent. But any crack like that over death decay always sets me off after how hard many of us fought it.

I'll try and post an actual on-topic message in here tomorrow...

What's the point of the dye poll anyway? The dying option for armor was available for a week only, why try to make it something permanent to another profession? I am confused.

Thanks n'Jessi, that's a great summary.

---

Songe wrote:
What's the point of the dye poll anyway? The dying option for armor was available for a week only, why try to make it something permanent to another profession? I am confused.

---

I guess you could say the poll is a litmus test?

The whole recoloring thing was only brought up in this forum at all because the armorsmith and image designer forums were talking about having clothing get recoloring options. Talking about it. As far as I know, this was never laid out as a proposal by any dev. The topic simply got out of hand and started being discussed as if it were a feature about to be patched in despite our protests. This is not so! As I last posted in my original thread, I merely posted links to the relevent discussions in the other two forums as a heads up to Tailors that other professions were trying to include OUR profession in THEIR profession wish lists! (and they still are talking about us over there.)

Miscommunication. That's all. Recoloring, in any way, shape or form has not been proposed as a change to the tailor profession. Albeit, now it's been discussed to hell and back, and the number of tailors supporting the idea in one form or another, some Dev is going to trawl through here one day soon, see that, and run to the designers and go "lookie lookie!" Argh. *waves to Dev* NO! No recoloriing.

Good job Jess, as always girl

My best case scenario: they leave it alone

My worst case scenario: they change something

Sergia/Midnight Sun

---

ChaoKuang wrote:
How about dye kits made by tailors, and only in colors allowed at said tailor's current level? And the dye kit only has one use? So, then, master tailors would be selling the kits with the best colors, and making profit off them?

---

Because I like to make outfits and work with customers to get just the right look. The tag over my head says Master Tailor, not Master dyemaker. Yes, I would probably sell a lot of dye kits, but this is irrelevant! If I just wanted to make a lot of money I would go into a more profitable profession like armorsmith or weaponsmith, or even become a master fighting class and take 30K missions!

I think we've already agreed that selling dye kits to customers is a no-no. The dye kits I mentioned were to be used by the creator only - sort of like stims or rez packs. They could only be used by a tailor with the same tailoring mod - so most likely just the creator.

I think the real question boils down to whether we want to provide this service for customers.

• Will providing this service be a hassle?




• Will the hassle be overshadowed by the ease of colormatching at time of custom order and placating difficult customers?


• Will this force tailors into face-to-face interaction when they prefer vendor sales only?


• Will this have an effect on sales?




• Will customers want items redyed rather than buying new items?


• Will customers buy from novice tailors and then call upon masters to dye?




• If so, will this be beneficial to the profession as a whole because novice tailors will be able to sell items other than synth cloths, and will not feel pressure to grind?

So we have to ask ourselves not about selling this or that, but whether we are willing to perform dyeing services on garments - when, for what price, with what devices, on what terms? Think of it as an image design question - the customer meets you, face to face, to change something.

• Do you want that kind of interaction?


• Will that way of business bother the "resale" tailor who has no desire to interact with customers and rather sells goods to a merchant?


• Will tailors who prefer not to do custom orders be adversely affected by an unwillingness to perform dye services?

Let's think about these issues, because ultimately if dye is introduced, it will have a profound social effect on the way that we currently do business. The ramifications of this potential change need to be fleshed-out before we lobby for - or oppose - any changes to the profession.

big problem i think that will go along with this over and above tell hell and being a glorified paint vendor is what about pallets?

if they have a generic dye it wont be a problem but someone was talking about making better colors take more resources or that the color choices would reflect the tailors level

cause then people will be able to dye a leather peice in a metal pallet etc

with certain pieces like luxurious gown (id love to be able to make the top in a leather red) are due for a color upgrade. i dont know if it would be wise to let people make thier reinforced jacket metal colored and thier wookie battle padding pink.

-Biana

Personally, I do not want to have this type of interaction with my customers. I like making clothes for people. Not repairing clothes (too many failures), not making bio-e clothes, not coloring clothes....simply making clothes.