Tailor Archive

psshh

you know i think im in the wrong profession. im working my way slowly to master tailor and sure it doesnt bother me there are 8 millionmaster tailors alreadyin the city i live in either. But heck if im going to take the samerealitive time and energy involved to master out a craft skill like a weapon smith i want to be paid for it. any master combat class can make money . heck any master anything can make money. sure clothes isnt a super needed thing like guns or armor. but from a pure profit veiw, i think taliors are getting a bad rep for priceses. one due to the fact clothes are still indestructable and two fancy clothes is a luxury. Yet since when has a luxury been cheap? Heck when i get to master tailor im going to charge alot for my stuff. i mean its a master skill. if a weapon smith can make 30,000 cr on a gun why cant i make 10,000 on a nice article of clothing? some people just ruin it for others....

Raza

The only Twilek girl on intrepid without a maxed out chest meter.

No one'll throw snowballs at ya. You just make it a little (ok, maybe a lot) tougher for some of us to achieve our goals. Different play styles and attitudes are to be expected. Getting your own resources is great and definitely helps to lower prices, but I also account for the difficulty/time spent in obtaining them.The metal/revealing bikinis cost ~50 or sowoolly hide, but man, the time it takes to get that hide! You should see me out there killing peko pekos for woolly hide - quite the sight!

I wish she was on my server. I'd buy all her master items stock and sell them for the average market price on Eclipse. 8-12K.

Then i'd thank her for helping me make money. It doesn't matter that it had her name in it or even the price. People will still buy.

My apologies, Kjeld1. I just get tired of people calling me a cheat, attacking me for my prices, telling me how I’m supposedly ruin the economy or how I don’t value my craft. It just gets me a bit… snippy at times. But that remark by me was uncalled for and I apologize.

It’s just that I don’t understand how people can have such high costs. I might play about 40 hours every week, but very little of that is used to actively pursue tailoring. I spend far more time just with my friends, having fun, talking, etc. Once every two days I make a harvester run which takes me about 15 minutes, longer if resources shifted. I make my own harvesters and gather all my own resources (except hides, where I get help from my friends). As such resources cost me about 0.65cr per unit.

I don’t have a vendor, nor do I plan on getting one. My tailor-based travel expenses are negligible, I have a small house that I don’t use for anything (let alone tailoring business) and I just recently got a factory, which right now is my biggest non-harvester, tailor-based money sink. But even that I can easily afford with what little I sell.

You say that time is a constraint for you, that you have to charge high prices because you don’t have much playing time? How can that be? If you’ve got enough resources you can completely remove your harvesters, making that you don’t have any cost there. And even with a factory it might be worth re-deeding it instead of constantly paying maintenance on something you’re not even using (because you only spend a little time online your material cost must be a lot lower too).

And vendors? Admittedly I don’t have one, never had one and am not planning on getting one anytime soon. But from what I understand the maintenance price of vendors is supposed to be based on the price of items you list on it, over the time that they are listed. So the lower your prices the less you pay your vendor, and the quicker you sell the less you pay your vendor. I might not have much business sense, but it sounds to me that lower prices will only make it easier on you.

I’ve heard ask how I keep up with demand with my prices. Answer is I don’t. I don’t even try. People can buy what I have available on the bazaar or they can contact me personally if they want something specific. And if I don’t happen to have the resources/time then they’re out of luck. I craft clothes for my enjoyment and if it becomes a chore I won’t do it. Though I love crafting for people in person. I might set up a shop (without a vendor) where people can come for custom orders. High quality and service at a very low price. That doesn’t mean that I have to charge high, because my costs are still very low.

As for some other questions. I am indeed in a PA… of four people. And I’m the only (serious) crafter. But the others agree with my prices. Our leader is a Master ID and works purely on tips (if she does at all). My bank account is nearly empty at the moment because we recently bought a PA hall and I bought a factory a few days ago. And I haven’t had anything serious up on the bazaar since the Lianorm Swamp bug. But I’ve got a ton of resources stockpiled and several items ready for sale. And I know that as soon as I post them they’ll be gone again in a few days.

I fully admit that I likely know little of running a business. I’m much more of a mathematician. Thus I calculate my prices and until someone tells me my calculations are wrong (and how to improve them) I’m going by what I’m good at. And if I’d charge much more than what I am I’d feel like I was cheating and taking advantage of the ignorance of my customers. I don’t want to be a dishonest person.

I hope all of that made sense.

- A. Kimusume
[Casual III::Formal IV:::Tailoring I]

Now that I see you don't have a vendor and sell items on the Bazaar, Ayane, I have a little better handle on your situation.

My response is still this: Demand, demand, demand.

Does a $10,000Vera Wang wedding gown cost 10 times more to make than an off-the-rack $1000 gown from Filene's Basement? I highly doubt it. A woman buys the Vera Wang because of the design and the name, not the materials. For her, it is *worth* the extra money, or she would not pay it.

Your calculations do not take into account the most fundamental rule of economics: demand. Since the Bazaar has a 3000 credit cap, you have no way of experimenting with higher prices to see where sales level off. So, by your definition, your calucations will always be "right"; you make a level of profit acceptable to you, and stuff flies off the shelf.

Is it dishonest to make as much money as I can off of an item? I really don't think so. In fact, it is my most educated customers who are willing to pay the higher prices. Usually they just ask me for an outfit and ask the total cost; they don't even want a breakdown.

All Tailors are free to charge what they want. Like many others it does pain me to see Master level items go for sub-2K, but I will stand bya person's right to do that. I am making much more money in the BE enhanced clothing, and once that is working 100% I expect that to be the majority of my business. A bandolier that gives +13 defense vs. Stun and +4 Melee defense? I'm curious to see what someone would pay for that.

So, in closing, I don't think all "undercutters" are tryting to ruin our profesion, and I *certainly* don't think charging what the market will bear is "dishonest" in any way, shape or form.

Well, it's admirable that you don't want to be a dishonest person and you want to be fair to your customers. There are two sides here though. Your customers and your fellow players. Players... this isn't like real life where undercutting and using your math formulas will get you ahead and keep you afloat. The way I see it, it's about the game quality. Making it enjoyable for everyone. Your prices and your profit are outstanding because you choose to have very little overhead. That is your choice. For other Players there is a whole world of business (vendors), large houses (shops), droids (with crafting modules) and other things that take virtual credits. While it's true we could all choose the bare minimum as you have, strip down to nothing, remove our showhouses, remove our vendors, we would all be in the same situation as you. We'd have very little overhead and a high profit margin.

But lets take math out of it. Let's even take business out of it. Let's talk about the fun factor of the GAME. For the other people who really enjoy the aspect ofthe merchant line. Setting up their virtual little shops, with their little displaysand taking care of theirfellow MMORPG playingcustomers. There is an aspect of fun that it involves. You don't want to participate in that aspect of fun. That's fine, no one is asking you to. However, for these people to enjoy this aspect of the game, they have to put out virtual credits for maintenance.

The overhead for most tailors is almost or equal to 5 credits per resource. That is what you are basing your prices on am I correct? For me alone I pay 5 credits per unit for wooly hide. If I tried to compete with you on a low cut top...I'd be screwed. I'd end up eating credits for a lot of things.Even if it is under 5 credits per resource there is only maybe a 1credit profit margin to it to buy a droid, a weapon, a travel ticket, furniture...whatever else that that individual may want to make the game fun for them.

Basically lets say you make 4 credits profit per resource. You have no overhead. You pocket the four credits with one item. For another tailor who does have overhead. To match your four credits profit they have to make four items. So from a business prospective in the real world. You'd make bank. Then you are doing things right. Bringing down competition to meet your prices when you have such low overhead.That may be one of the reasons people are saying you play dirty and unfair. From a gaming view where this is for fun, you're making it so that everyone else has to play by your preferred play style. Which is strip down to the bare minimum and have nothing in name but harvesters. By raising your prices it is a win/win/win situation. For one, you get more money, no it's not dishonest to get paid money even if it's not within scope of the resources used. Your customers still get a great product and you don't have to charge the high end, you could still be within the scale of prices accepted by your fellow tailors, but just at the low end of it. And your fellow tailors won't feel like they either have to give up the profession or just pack up everything and play the way you do. No shop, no vendors, no nothing. Not very fun for a lot of people who enjoy it.

At that sort of a profit margin, it's not fun. It's really difficult, and while you may make tons of money at those prices, most of your fellow tailors cannot without cutting back on their lifestyle. This is a game. If people want to indulge then by all means they should and can. However, if it becomes simply frustrating to be able to enjoy a game because of one player that doesn't open their mind to the bigger picture then...well...it becomesa topic of debate ona board like this

When you start selling your wares for that amount of money other players will expect it of all the master tailors. It's unfair to the enjoyment of the game for other Players who choose to be a tailor on your server. As for your customers. They can afford it, you aren't sucking them dry you aren't taking advantage of them. They are enjoying the game just fine. If anything, they are taking advantage of you because they know that master quality anything should be worth more, but they aren't going to argue with a give away deal.

As for the vendors. We don't know what they will decide. The many pages long post concerning it many people asked for a percentage cost based on the item sold, not the overall amount or cost inside the vendor. SOE specifically asked for input, so I have faith they may even listen to this one since no one agreed with it. So to use the vendors as a basis to stay low cost is not a valid one until we know more.

So pretty much, this is my take on it. You have two sides to be fair to. Customers and your fellow tailors. This is a game. Why not let everyone enjoy it. If you want to be cheapest, be the cheapest within a range that doesn't totally destroy the others. Be curteous to your fellow Players, as curteous as you are to your Customer Players.

I for one am starting to get in contact with master tailors on my server so we can make certain we are within range of one another. We don't have to sell for exactly the same amounts, but being within range is acourtesy we are trying to extend to one another. Why? Because it's so everyone can have a piece of the pie and everyone can enjoy playing the profession in a game that we like to spend time playing. You may want to try to do the same. Be the cheapest but be within an acceptable range. 2.5k and 10k are not acceptable ranges.

All other professions with the exception of Chef make money at what they do. Not just a modest living but good money when they become masters. Tailors should not be an exception. We're just asking please don't drive down the price of goods that sell perfectly well for the amount that they've been selling forto a point that they are less than the cost of raw resources.We don't all want to be miners. We want to be tailors and be paid for it and have fun doing it.

I suspect the game isn't very fun for you at the moment either. You'd probably enjoy it more with cooperation.

I'm not understanding at all how any price level could be considered dishonest by a reasonable, rational player. A price makes no explicit nor implied warranty to be dishonest about. All a price says is, "this is how much I think my effort is worth". All the power in that transaction lies with the customer, who can agree with that assessment or reject it and seek a lower price. Where does "dishonesty" enter into the debate?

My prices are what they are because I value my labor highly. My character is the virtual equivilent of a top fashion designer. While we might love it if Calvin Klein charged only the manufacturing cost for a couple yards of denim and some scrap copper, believing that this should be the case betrays a profound lack of understanding of what design, fashion, marketing, and capitalism itself is all about.

But it's all good. If you value your labor at the level of a Thai child laborer, there's never a shortage of people who will be delighted to use you in just that capacity.

I'm amazed that anyone can get away with charging 50k for a BE enhanced item since they don't work *coughreadtheBEforums* LOL----when skill enhancers and BE enhancers DO work, I'm sure prices will jump tho

I've been to 9 Master Tailor's stores on my server (mostly on Tatooine and Corellia) including our little undercutter who is selling Grand Healers Robes for 1k!!!!!! I was furious but then realized that there was no way they could begin to keep up the buisness the rest of us do and they were basically shooting themselves in the foot.

I was also pleased to notice that with the exception of one very high priced MT, the rest of us are all charging about the same thing for MT items. Of course we all have our bargains, but overall we are all in the same ballpark. That makes me feel more like we are all on the same team rather than each other's competition. Since I am based on Tatooine, if I get a tailoring request while on Corellia I generally reccomend one of the local tailors there. That's a nice thing about not having pricewars.

No hard feelings, and I know where you are coming from.

For the remark about my playtime, the harvesters costs are actually less than half of my "offline costs" : it's eaten by my house/shop, my association of friends large house/common supermarket, the cost of my vendors : those are the one I need to compensate by charging a bit high.

Javrie perfectly described our "side" of the coin, and I think we are speaking of two different kind of attitudes toward tailoring.

You tailor casually. You have no shop, you produce what you need with your harvesters, you craft items at your whim. Apparently, you have not"rushed" to master by powercrafting (which is a good thing in the spirit of the game, but see the other side of the coin: tailors who took upon themselves to invest time, effort and money to provide awanted anddesired service to the community are not always egoisitic powergamers).So you have few stocks, and can pretty much fund your crafting as you go, and get benefits (albeit small ones)across the journey.

On the other hand, you have the tailors who advertise, who take upon themselves to have large shops, with full displays (lots of expensive clothes not for sale but for decoration), who keep multiple vendors fully supplied with multiple colors of various items, including items that have colors that don't sell well (ie not black ) and rarer items not many people want, just on the off chance someone will like it a lot and purchase it. They will have varied, complete outfits ...Some people take time, a lot of time, and invest in game credits, to play the "merchant" game, to providethe best and mostvaried selections of clothing(including going fast to master, whether you condone grinding or not), who make themselves fully available every time they are online.

Those people will have, maybe, 200 clothes on display, and perhaps 300, 400, 500 or more items on sale, that are renewed each time one of them is sold, pemanently, first, to have the best choices available for the customers, second, just because it is fun for them, enjoyable, to have a big and colorful shop.

Those are the huge overhead costs various posters are talking about - you have to get a big cash flow running to afford to have 500+ clothes permanently made in advance(and the dedication, the extra "service" people find right to take into account considering prices).

It's a different game, a different point of view, a different idea of fun, and each point of view is as valid as the other.

Theoretically, both playstyles should co-exist well : if someone has the chance and opportunity to find you online, then he can get the item he wants for pretty cheap, or just happen to find this item on the bazaar at the right time at the right moment. If someone wants huge choice, and a reliable source of varied clothing, let's pay more and go shopping.

However, the non tailors, are like us, short sighted They WILL compare the prices, even if it is not the same situation. Thus, it creates tension between the two camps. So, we have the egoist greedy gougers on one hand, and the disgusting undersellers who sells their profession short on the other hands.

Really hard to conciliate

Hope a middle ground can be found. Honestly, I hope some prices will go down a bit (I honestly think Niveas price schemes are a bit high, especially on the low-mid end items ... but again that's ok, leaves room for the novice tailors), but 1.5k for a flightsuit shocksme . Heck, like I said, it is half the cost of the crappy buggy factory redeeding (and as apparently you just got your factory, you'll see what I mean when you'll start to need a dozen factory identical components, and how pain in the ... they are to make consistently.

Blodie... call it the 'placebo effect' but Medics I sell to *do* claim they get some results from my Active Bionsensor gear.

I tell customers (if I'm around when they buy) that I have no idea if the stuff works or not, but some people have claimed that certain aspects of it do. Remember that Active Bionsesnors give mods to *three* skills.

At any rate, I assume that when BE stuff is working 100%, all of my items will be working as well. If a customer comes back to me when the Devs sort it out and it *still* doesn't work... I'll make them a replacement for free or refund their money.

I used to become really irritated when I read of these super-low prices. Now I've realized it doesn't matter that much. Yes, it would become an issue if lots of tailors suddenly dropped prices to bargain-basement levels. A few might, but most won't. I won't. I did drop about 10-15% when the mission reward changed. Not that I really thought people couldn't afford the items -- I figured it was more of a perception thing. Worked well. So well in fact that I will probably have to raise them since I can't keep up.

I sell master items for about 8500-10500 these days. Except for bugged items that can't have sockets, I never sell anything without 4 sockets. I used to discount them and not put my name on the front of the item name, but now I usually destroy them or wear them myself. Why? Because I feel like it. I have a boutique -- I'm not looking to be a discount store or a wholesaler. I don't see these prices as gouging either. Is Neiman Marcus gouging because they sell sweaters for $400? Who cares, if you want a $400 sweater, well that's what you want. What's that? You want another all black outfit, you dont care what it is as long as it's black and cheap? Too bad, go look on the bazaar. A nice ice-blue flightsuit with 4 sockets? Ok that's more like it

So, sell items for 1000 I don't care. As someone mentioned, there is no way one or even a few people doing that can keep up with demand. I've had customers buy 5 different tactical suits then want more (for one person). Most discount tailors will either get burned out trying to keep up with the crazy amount of tells and e-mails, or end up just making a few things here and there. Either way, it will stabilize in the end. Now all I really need is to earn some interest on those credits in the bank, and get someone to build me a nice swimming pool for my house on the hill

-- Izzienne Z'vih

Izzienne wrote:

Now all I really need is to earn some interest on those credits in the bank, and get someone to build me a nice swimming pool for my house on the hill