Tailor Archive
Thread: Tailors and the Economy
Nema0879
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:16 am
#14
Sunikka wrote:
What is a "non-tailor server"...?
Akaara wrote:
On my non-tailor server I have ONE house FULL of clothes!
my guess is the server where they're not a tailor?
Aori
Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:18 pm
#15
I feel the exact same way. I know this has been pointed out in threads before, but it usually seems like tailors who are newer to the market end up pricing their clothing much less than the tailors who have been around longer. I think experience is key. Once you've had tailor for a while, you realise how time consuming it can be.You can easily sell a good 30 items on your vendor to a single person, and the time that it took you to make those 30 items of clothing should reflect the amount yougot back from it.If you price things too low, you end up going through stock so fast that you burn out quickly, because its so hard to keep up with it. Its with experience that you truely understand the value of your time and effort, beyond that of just resources, and get a better understanding of how the market and economy works. I think there will always be those tailors who severely underprice their items, but from what I learned, a customer is *much* more likely to return to a vendor that has an amazing stock and selection of clothing, and those extra bonuses (customized items, outfits, etc) that the underpricers don't have the time to do because they are too busy trying to replace their deplenished stock or are still trying to get more business to their shops in general. I think that tailors should stick together, and maybe the only way to help eleviate this problem is to almost "adopt a tailor" by being there for advice if needed. I know when I was new to the tailor profession, I had a lot of questions for the already well-established tailors that really helped me get going. I don't see my fellow tailors on my server as competitors, but as people I highly respect, since they would be able to completely relate to all my tailoring frustrations/joys, and theres no way a single tailor could handle the market alone, especially on something like clothing that doesn't get as much profit as other goods out there do. Sadly, not every tailor reads these forums and end up missing out on a valuable resource.
But when Im really frustrated at an underpricer, I always remind myself, "Give them a month or so...With that experience they will have either 1) Learned from their experience and adjusted their business practices, 2) Burnt out". You can't keep underpricing forever and not spontaneously combust from being over-worked and stressed out by it, if you care at all about having a quality vendor/business.
Message Edited by Aori on 11-23-2004 05:20 PM
Message Edited by Aori on 11-23-2004 05:21 PM
Jaqe
Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:36 pm
#16
That is a truth in the Armor biz as well, there is always some upstart coming along and undercutting all the masters who've been doing it since day one. They usually go poof pretty quickly once they realize how much work it is to keep a successfull shop functioning. Most are in it just for the quick buck to support their grinding chars. Give it time, and the loosers weed themselves out.
Privateer21
Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:53 am
#17
Iwas berated one night for about 15 minutes because someone didn't like the price I quoted them on a grand twi'lek headpiece and a grand ball gown. Come on those are Master level items with several factory comps each. I will be the first to admit my prices are on the expensive side (15k and change each for those items), but if you don't like the price, don't chew me outfor it. "You're robbing people, I have a tailor on blahblah server and I know for a fact that only costs 1,000 credits to make." Fine, go back to whatever server you came from, make it there, and wear it all you want. Then I got the "I'm going to find that item from someone else and send you an email with the price." Please do. Needless to say I haven't received an email yet.
People need to remember that each servers economy is different. Some are very depressed, others very inflated. Besides, I don't want to sit there crafting flightsuits and grand ball gowns with their multiple components, factory this, factory that, and only get 5,000 for it. Especially if I sit there during my game time and make it custom for you. I already can't keep up with restocking from my vendor sales. If I sold for less, I'd be crafting 100% of my play time, and like most players, I do like to actually play the game.
I've been a tailor since day one, so I'd like to think I know what I'm doing by now. I keep my vendor above 600 items, the bulk of that being shirts, pants and dresses, everything from 250 credit casual pantsto 17k credit robe of honor. If you want the cool stuff, it costs money. A lot of it. Product, in game or real life, never sells for what it cost to make. There's also pricing to curtail demand. Yeah, that car you just bought for 20k? You think it cost 20k to build? Or even more to home. that XBox you just got on sale for $149? it probably cost less than half that in parts/material. Labor, shipping, marketing, packaging, all that stuff adds to it. While not a perfect model, SWG does show some parallels to a real life economy. With a freely flowing money source from missions, i have no problem charging what I do. If I means I get a more upscale (read: rich) clientele, so be it.
As for the bazaar undercutters. It's been a problem since the game started, altho not as bad now that the hologrind is over. During holo-season, it was a nightmare. Grinders selling whatever they had to make a little money to further finance their grinding. The only thing you can do is buy up the bazaar sales and resell them yourself at a reasonable price. Hell, I've done it. I've seen them for sale at less than my cost. That's just smart business sense.
regards
P
Jaqe
Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:49 pm
#18
What I don't like about this game and the crafting system in and of itself is the fact that true masters of their professions are no better than the resources they own.I have been an Armorsmith since I started in this game, and any chump can come along, get the same resources as me and make the same quality of stuff. The only advantage is the knowledge I have and the extra experimentation points that cost a fortune, but even then a noob can aquire an exp suit and once again be on par. They need to work out a system whereby the real crafters who put all their time into their profession can stand out of the crowd and actually be recognized as masters of their field.Although I would say the best always get reputation, but reputation isn't enough in my opionion. I want something special that makes my work stand out from all the rest of the FOTM crafters.
Just a ramble. . .
Selenei
Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:45 pm
#19
Jaqe wrote:What I don't like about this game and the crafting system in and of itself is the fact that true masters of their professions are no better than the resources they own. I have been an Armorsmith since I started in this game, and any chump can come along, get the same resources as me and make the same quality of stuff. The only advantage is the knowledge I have and the extra experimentation points that cost a fortune, but even then a noob can aquire an exp suit and once again be on par. They need to work out a system whereby the real crafters who put all their time into their profession can stand out of the crowd and actually be recognized as masters of their field. Although I would say the best always get reputation, but reputation isn't enough in my opionion. I want something special that makes my work stand out from all the rest of the FOTM crafters.Just a ramble. . .
true.
but, as you've been playing longer, you probably hoarded some of those nice über resources when they were in shift. A new armour/weapon smith will have to spend big bucks to get the really good stuff. Same goes for the experimentation sea's, they can get them, but they cost a fortune. So it will either be a long time before they get them, or they have to finance it through some other profession or character.
-243 1240
Falech
Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:15 am
#20
Okay, I haven't read the entire thread, anxious as I am to spill my guts on this as well, so I may be telling you something you've seen before in here...
I'm tired of people telling me that "the taylor prof is teh easiest in teh game!" (note the exlamation...) whenever we talk about our mutual professions. They never tell me why, however and leave me behind guessing about it...
The way I see it:
Okay, we don't experiment BUT... We have colors! Do you know what it takes to get a good balance of colors on multi-color items? Do you know what it takes to get a good ensemble of multiple items fit together smoothly in terms of style AND colors? Do you know the dedication and discipline that goes into the craft?
Craft item... Try color combo's... Like it? Finish item... Try it on self... Examine self... Nah, doesn't look good after all... Take it off... Destroy (or keep for selling to style-less customers 
)... Craft same item again... Try color combo's again... Like it? Finish item, again... Try it on self, again... Examine self, again... Nah, doesn't look good after all (AGAIN)... Take it off, again (GRRR)... Destroy (/sigh AGAIN)... Craft item... and so on, and so on.
)... Craft same item again... Try color combo's again... Like it? Finish item, again... Try it on self, again... Examine self, again... Nah, doesn't look good after all (AGAIN)... Take it off, again (GRRR)... Destroy (/sigh AGAIN)... Craft item... and so on, and so on.And this for like 10 times in a row... for EACH clothing item before we're satisfied we have something that looks good and stylish! (Okay, okay, more gifted Tailors do it in less perhaps or even at once, but still...)
Great, now that that's done, all I have to do is make some nice ensembles... Another couple-of-hours-long session of crafting, trying different styles AND colors this time... /sigh
Our profession takes time, a feeling of style, time,a feeling of color, talent, time, crafting, did I mention time? dedication, time, discipline, time...
The others have it easy... They slap together some resources and craft... All they need to do is experiment to get the best results. Oh yes, they have to craft again and again also to try different experimentation combinations... Hehe, big deal. Still easier than what we do, in my opinion.
I think those that see Tailors as useless, game content fillers that overcharge and have an easy life, either don't know the intricate process involved in creating garments so the server may roam the lands in styleOR don't know how to dress properly and think visiting the local Cantina in a full Comp-suit (with helmet equipped no less, so no one can see your face) is completely acceptable... 
No, indeed we don't have the most difficult profession in the game... No, indeed we don't have to hunt for specific resources like most others do. But whatever we don't have that you do, is made up for by what we havethat you don't. Get it?
So don't tell me that Tailors have an easy life. Whatever you pay for clothes, it's not just for the crafting and the resources. It's mostly for the heart, soul and creativity of the Tailor.
And don't even get me started on decorating a shop, setting up, stocking and keeping well-stocked with plenty ofvariety in style and colors so the demanding "mak me cool cloth now plz"-customer has something to choose from, clothing vendors.
Now, considering the "mak me look cool/badass/whatever" type of general customer,such anamount of effort is really a waste of time. Why I even do it? because I like it, I like it a lot. And the customer likes it better that way, even ifhe doesn't realize it.
And to those of them that say "get a lif man its just a game so dont fus about it"I say, "Hey, SWG isa MMORPG... It'sa ROLEPLAYING game, so I'm supposed to be at least a little fussy about it or else we'd all better go and play some First Person Shooter or Arcade game and save ourselves the trouble and the fun." I don't go about knocking your head off because all you do is thatPvP or PvE all the time which you'd probably be better off at in Half Life or Counterstrike anyway?
And as far as undercutting tailors are concerned (note the non-use of a capital t...), they're probably tailors that Tailors would rather not see if they were customers...
Shoo!Go away now! You're inhibiting the creative juices here...
In all honesty, I was more like /rofl making this post than getting a heartburn from stressing over it, hehe... But the point is clear I think.
Message Edited by Falech on 12-07-2004 03:01 PM
aibo220
Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:46 pm
#22
I dislike tailors who undercut prices.
Yeah, it doesn't take much to make master items when compared to armor or weapons but then again clothes don't have much use when compared to those items as well... So in my opinion, it all evens out.
However, the cost of SP it takes to hold master tailor not to mention the time and effort and cost to grind up to Master... That holds just as much worth as does master AS and WS.
I honestly don't understand how some tailors can make clothes and then put them on the Bazaar for less then 1k credits.
Whenever I go shopping for clothes, I'll pay the low prices. But if there is an actual tailor store that sells items for more... I'd go shop there instead. I don't mind paying extra as I have an alt who is a tailor that makes no money... Especially off the vendor.
But I also price everything from 2k-12k credits because stocking a tailor vendor is 10x more difficult then a WS or AS stocking their vendor. AS/WS can run a schematic then throw it all onto their vendor. A tailor has to stand there for hours hand making each and every item indivually in several different colors. When I had a vendor, I would remake the same item 6x for each color and I used about 8 colors. So it took forever.
Anyway... I let the shop crash and burn and closed my tailor account. I really want to have a store though again so I'm thinking of opening my tailor account but I also have a ID/Musician account I could open as well. Because of the lack of worth tailors have in the economy I'm really not sure if it is worth opening that account over the ID/Musician.
Yeah, it doesn't take much to make master items when compared to armor or weapons but then again clothes don't have much use when compared to those items as well... So in my opinion, it all evens out.
However, the cost of SP it takes to hold master tailor not to mention the time and effort and cost to grind up to Master... That holds just as much worth as does master AS and WS.
I honestly don't understand how some tailors can make clothes and then put them on the Bazaar for less then 1k credits.
Whenever I go shopping for clothes, I'll pay the low prices. But if there is an actual tailor store that sells items for more... I'd go shop there instead. I don't mind paying extra as I have an alt who is a tailor that makes no money... Especially off the vendor.
But I also price everything from 2k-12k credits because stocking a tailor vendor is 10x more difficult then a WS or AS stocking their vendor. AS/WS can run a schematic then throw it all onto their vendor. A tailor has to stand there for hours hand making each and every item indivually in several different colors. When I had a vendor, I would remake the same item 6x for each color and I used about 8 colors. So it took forever.
Anyway... I let the shop crash and burn and closed my tailor account. I really want to have a store though again so I'm thinking of opening my tailor account but I also have a ID/Musician account I could open as well. Because of the lack of worth tailors have in the economy I'm really not sure if it is worth opening that account over the ID/Musician.
Falech
Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:09 am
#23
It was my pleasure
/bow
Message Edited by Falech on 12-08-2004 07:10 PM
Aynianu
Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:14 am
#24
While i had quit a while ago, i never found that i was undervalued, ever.
I was fortunate (if one could call it that) to be on a server where tailors where extreamly rare. and ones with stock on vendors even rarer.
My price lists was 2k as my cheapest item, 15k as most expensive on regular clothing. 40k - 100k on BE clothing (depending on tissues used)
300k-500k on Schematic made items.
100k for my special set outfits. (regular clothing but sets from the films etc)
Before i raised my prices to these above i was getting 400 - 600 vendor sales a day, i raised them in an effort to lessen my work. I was wrong, my sales didnt decrease at all and i ended up getting in excess of 5 million a day quite often. Which i admit made me feel a little happier about spending so much time restocking.
Never one complaint about prices, only Compliments about my selection, which was 2750 items of just clothing, made by a pure tailor who spent her time doing nothing but makingclothes.
I still think and allways will, that having vendors with the biggest selection you can achieve will get you customers much more constant and consistantly than just having cheap prices.
When i see tailors who sell really cheap, i find i cant bring myself to respect them, as i dont beleive they respect their proffession. If they are selling cheap to try and attract customers then they will be in for a lot of wasted effort because i find in my experiance people are not worried weather an item is 250 or 2k, if they can find 20 hotpants all in different colours they'd happily pay 2k for the colour they want, when they want, any hour of the day. any whim they suddenly have.
Message Edited by Aynianu on 12-09-2004 09:18 AM
Imperial-devotie
Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:49 am
#25
WOW Aynanu I am soooo envious. How did you manage that many sales aday?
I am fairly new to Tailor about 2 months, and I am seriously disapointed with my Tailor sales.
I have 2 toons on bira and 24 vendors between them (6 of which are tailor) I make good credits from my Loot vendors and even my Spice dispenser.
But but Tailor Vendors just make me no credits- maybe you could advise me?
This is what a currently do:
I price all items at 2.5k-10k and i made factory crates so i have 2 of each colour of EVERY main item on the vendor.
AndI have in store
- 1 vendor for tops
- 1 vendor for bottoms
- 1 vendor for hats, shoes etc
- 1 vendor for BE 1 vendor for factory crates
- 1 vendor for uniforms (imperial maninly)
- 1 vendor for cloaks
- and one for custom order pick ups
I advertise on the auction channel and I have a Ad barker droid at Theed starport (not that anyone can see what he's saying with the amount of spam)
and i sit in the local cantina getting orders overnight and make them the following day.
I have emailed all guild leaders i could find off the forum to do there tailor needs (only got 2 replies).
what more can I do? I love Tailor its a great prof, but when I make 100k a night for selling those damn loot kit parts and only 2500 for clothing its upsetting.
and to make matters worse 2 new master tailors have taken to standing OVER my ad droid spamming 
Anyones help is appreciated.
AllyaEcati
Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:05 am
#26
Aynianu wrote:
While i had quit a while ago, i never found that i was undervalued, ever.
I was fortunate (if one could call it that) to be on a server where tailors where extreamly rare. and ones with stock on vendors even rarer.
My price lists was 2k as my cheapest item, 15k as most expensive on regular clothing. 40k - 100k on BE clothing (depending on tissues used)
300k-500k on Schematic made items.
100k for my special set outfits. (regular clothing but sets from the films etc)
Before i raised my prices to these above i was getting 400 - 600 vendor sales a day, i raised them in an effort to lessen my work. I was wrong, my sales didnt decrease at all and i ended up getting in excess of 5 million a day quite often. Which i admit made me feel a little happier about spending so much time restocking.
Never one complaint about prices, only Compliments about my selection, which was 2750 items of just clothing, made by a pure tailor who spent her time doing nothing but makingclothes.
I still think and allways will, that having vendors with the biggest selection you can achieve will get you customers much more constant and consistantly than just having cheap prices.
When i see tailors who sell really cheap, i find i cant bring myself to respect them, as i dont beleive they respect their proffession. If they are selling cheap to try and attract customers then they will be in for a lot of wasted effort because i find in my experiance people are not worried weather an item is 250 or 2k, if they can find 20 hotpants all in different colours they'd happily pay 2k for the colour they want, when they want, any hour of the day. any whim they suddenly have.
Message Edited by Aynianu on 12-09-2004 09:18 AM
Totally agree! In fact stocked vendors are kicking me in the butt now. I have been taking a semi tailor break. I just wanted to maintain status quo, however restocking and special ordershave beencatching up to me and causing me to spend more hours in my shop than I want to. The list of clothing I need to replace is growing and I had between 200-300 items expire last night. UGH! I'm debating raising my prices again.