Tailor Archive
Thread: Clothing condition
NJ62
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:42 pm
#14
1. Clothing does need to decay.... period. No argument there.
2. The current clothing decay on being hit is too fast. It needs to be slower, or max condition increased.
3. The current clothing decay on being hit is insufficient to address our renewable income problems. Clothing needs to decay for non-combatants as well.
4. If clothing decays too quickly, the result will be combat toons not wearing any because it provides no discernable benefit and it is quickly gone. That kills our market and immersion (underpants, anyone?)
5. BE tissues are far too expensive to decay that quickly. That market will dry up.
6. I do not want experimentation on clothing condition. HOWEVER, I would accept it *only if*
2. The current clothing decay on being hit is too fast. It needs to be slower, or max condition increased.
3. The current clothing decay on being hit is insufficient to address our renewable income problems. Clothing needs to decay for non-combatants as well.
4. If clothing decays too quickly, the result will be combat toons not wearing any because it provides no discernable benefit and it is quickly gone. That kills our market and immersion (underpants, anyone?)
5. BE tissues are far too expensive to decay that quickly. That market will dry up.
6. I do not want experimentation on clothing condition. HOWEVER, I would accept it *only if*
- Clothing decays with USE, period.
- I can experiment on SOCKETS too.
- Subcomponents do NOT have experimentable condition.
- We have no more than TWO stats in a material that are relevant.
- Repairs actually WORK.
Message Edited by NJ62 on 04-20-2005 03:44 PM
Lonaris
Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:16 pm
#15
If they want us to exp .. then I hope we get something besides UT or OQ. Things should be unique to each profession.
I am for exp on say (sockets, Condition and say Decay)
- so we know what sockets are
- Contition would be how much .. like 100 to 1000
- Decay would be how fast it decayed with combat or each time it was equiped (so say each time clothing is equiped it decays ... that would help with non combat decay)
I am not personally up for the whole none combat decay thing. Dancers and other non combat peope have a hard enough time with getting funds ... making them buy a ton of clothes sucks. I feel bad enough for them with the current changes.
Nosyd
Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:20 pm
#16
This is amust also, in my opinion.
NJ62 wrote:
1. Clothing does need to decay.... period. No argument there.
2. The current clothing decay on being hit is too fast. It needs to be slower, or max condition increased.
3. The current clothing decay on being hit is insufficient to address our renewable income problems. Clothing needs to decay for non-combatants as well.
4. If clothing decays too quickly, the result will be combat toons not wearing any because it provides no discernable benefit and it is quickly gone. That kills our market and immersion (underpants, anyone?)
5. BE tissues are far too expensive to decay that quickly. That market will dry up.
6. I do not want experimentation on clothing condition. HOWEVER, I would accept it *only if*
- Clothing decays with USE, period.
- I can experiment on SOCKETS too.
- Subcomponents do NOT have experimentable condition.
- We have no more than TWO stats in a material that are relevant.
- Repairs actually WORK.
Message Edited by NJ62 on 04-20-2005 03:44 PM
Jutewr
Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:44 pm
#17
Clothing should decay in a way that affects *all* players. (Although maybe it could affect combat players more.) The clothing also should be unequippable at 0/0 or 1/1 condition.
And as for experimentation, please no. That is one of the biggest reasons I went tailor rather than some other crafting profession. I hate experimentation and I don't have the money or the time to get high quality resources. If experimentation comes in, then I'll do something I've never done before and seriously think about dropping tailor. 
Shonami
Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:00 pm
#18
I do not want to scrounge for high quality resources, ever, period. Other than the fashion, I am a tailor because of not having to worry about quality of resources. To be honest, if I had to start worrying about finding good resources, I would probably quit not only tailor, but SWG completely. Tailor is the only profession that speaks to my heart. Being a footloose and fancy free tailor is the only thing keeping me in this game. I've tried many other professions and they didn't stack up. I want to concentrate on creativity not on being a slave to harvesters or resource sellers. If I wanted more stress, I'd just turn off my computer and look more closely at real life. And if I wanted to worry about quality in clothing, I'd pull out my old Barbie's in real life and make them naughty outfits.
This game is a hobby to me, and I want my relaxing, joyous, creative, rewarding,and casual (for me) profession to be a delight not a drag.We work hard enough designing our clothing! What other profession works with about 450 schematics in color ranges from about a dozen to 255 to 510 to 600+ colors or combination of colors...even more for for a couple of schematics. It takes serious talent, time, dedication, and zest to be a good tailor, with clothing appealing to a wide range of interests.
Unlike other's, my server does sell cheap resources. If I buy something instead of harvest it, I can always find junk resources (or even decent ones) for 1 - 2 cpu, even hide. The most I've ever paid for hide (including Nabooian Scaley and Tat Wooly) is 6 cpu. I don't hunt critters for hide (although I have a 113 rated harvest droid for the fun of it); I have a minimum of combat skills (brawler 0003), enough to take care of those dang giant gubbers and crazed durnis I run into when chasing after my harvesters. I already hate running harvesters enough as it is; the thought of having to slave after quality turns me off completely.
I'd rather have clothing not decay at all than have to be a slave to resource hunting. People don't always keep their clothing forever; I have many customers who buy new outfits often because they are tired of their old looks. Don't get me wrong, a decay rate that is fair and just for everyone would be welcome, but not at the expense of my profession. I do not think the "reward" for clothingthat degrades should be an increase in grunt work. There is plenty of that in this game as it is. To me, it's definitely not worth it. My business is booming as it is; I don't see how having degradeable and experimentable clothing would benefit my business if I didn't have the time to restock my product.
Searching for high quality resources (whether harvesting or buying) is way too time-consuming for this profession. We aren't crate factories like so many other professions that need high quality resources. A chef or armorsmith can make crates of items and know that they would sell. How long would it take me to sell the other 24 of the 25 yellow Twi'lek Lekku Wraps that a customer special orders? We can't make a ton of crates and run a successful business. Most of our items are made by hand. I make crates of packs, black uniform boots, black hide boots, black cloaks (hood up and down), black gunman's dusters, and that's about it. The other 3750 items (in a fantabulous range of colors other than black!)that are stockedon my vendors were handmade.
I don't care about sockets, experimentation, or any of that junk. As a Master Tailor, I get 3 and 4 sockets often enough to have no complaints. If I wanted a ton of clothes with four sockets, I'd just run a ton of black clothing through factories, close my shop, and sell them on the bazaar. And I'm not interested in that. My one and no socket clothing sells just as well as 4 sockets. Not everybody are CA hounds. Most people, in my opinion, don't care. I've never even been asked to make a high-socketed item. But I've been asked many, many, many times for certain colors, color schemes, outfits to make someone look "sexy, kewl, evil, like a jedi, like a ninja, etc" as we all have. My customers are definitely interested in the fashion, not the bare utility of an item.
And I do consider myself a crafter, have all the uber crafting tools/station, etc, because I like owning the best. Our work should be in the visual aspects of clothing, not in the "nuts and bolts."
I just want the fun in tailor to stay fun.
Irela
FuschiaD
Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:03 pm
#19
I do not want to have to collect uber resources. The fact that I don't is one of the primary reasons I'm a tailor to begin with. The fact of the matter is, very little of our products actually contribute anything to the wearer (with the obvious exception of the BE clothing, and I guess 4 socket clothing). Typically, people who buy clothing are doing it because they like to buy clothing. I don't know about anyone else, but the majority of mycustomers are just people who want a new outfit. I'm a vanity tailor.Like Sakura, I don't want the added stress of finding the best resources. I just wanna make pretty clothes for people.
Karriath
Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:36 pm
#20
Personally as a long time tailor myself I dont have time to restock my vendor drop outs on a daily basis, deal with "tell hell", fill personal orders, read emails and remake items that have sold from my vendor to keep them fully stocked...blah, blah, blah....You get the picture.
I play with a limited amount of time and I personally dont have time to hunt down "uber " resources, plus take time to restock. Sometimes doing what I do starts to feel like a real life job at times as it is.
Besides that, that would mean higher prices for the consumer if I had to pay higer prices for hides.
I cant help but laugh when someone insists that I buy this really HQ hide for 20+ cpu. All a tailor needs is quanity not quality. Or someone wants to sell me a tailor ex tape for $$$$$$$$$$$ ROFL TAKE NOTE! THEY ARE USELESS!
Karriath
Gyopi
Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:08 am
#21
Well so far it looks like most people who have posted do not want to experiment, which is what I expected. I don't want to just ask for a flat condition only to find out people's wishes had changed since the last time this was asked. I think we have time to wait a day or two but right now it is looking like we should just ask for condition to be raised. What I *don't* want to happen is for the decay rate to be too high and end up having it removed again as a blacklash.
NJ62
Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:03 am
#22
I know this is a poll thread, but here is one point that comes up a lot in this game - that we can't fix one thing, because it is a proxy for something else that is broken.
Example: An anonymous feature. All crafters want it. But bounty hunters wail because they need to know that their jedi are online. They claim that because their droids don't work properly, they need to be able to see if jedi are online. The solution should be to fix both, but instead neither is fixed.
Example: Clothing decay and skill tapes. People whine and whine about how their precious skill tapes will decay to nothing. The solution should be to increase the skill tape drop rate to match clothing decay, but instead neither is fixed.
See what I mean? The problem mentioned above is that entertainers don't have enough money to afford high-priced clothes. Well, is that a problem with the entertainer professions or with the tailor profession? And is it right for us to disregard our need for renewable income out of deference to a game mechanic that simply doesn't work? Should we remain broken because another profession is? If that were the case, nothing would get fixed, because different things get fixed at different times, and there will always be some sort of imbalance while one thing is fixed and another is broken.
Example: An anonymous feature. All crafters want it. But bounty hunters wail because they need to know that their jedi are online. They claim that because their droids don't work properly, they need to be able to see if jedi are online. The solution should be to fix both, but instead neither is fixed.
Example: Clothing decay and skill tapes. People whine and whine about how their precious skill tapes will decay to nothing. The solution should be to increase the skill tape drop rate to match clothing decay, but instead neither is fixed.
See what I mean? The problem mentioned above is that entertainers don't have enough money to afford high-priced clothes. Well, is that a problem with the entertainer professions or with the tailor profession? And is it right for us to disregard our need for renewable income out of deference to a game mechanic that simply doesn't work? Should we remain broken because another profession is? If that were the case, nothing would get fixed, because different things get fixed at different times, and there will always be some sort of imbalance while one thing is fixed and another is broken.
Oblox
Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:43 am
#23
People who can afford skill tapes will no doubt look to ADK the garments since weapons in the CU are seemingly very similar and wont be as advantagious to apply an ADK to.
Ents who wont have high combat levels to earn money through combat and will probably earn less due to ent nerfs in the CU will get hit hard.
It would be the little guy who would lsoe out on condition decay not the pure fighters or rich people.
Ents who wont have high combat levels to earn money through combat and will probably earn less due to ent nerfs in the CU will get hit hard.
It would be the little guy who would lsoe out on condition decay not the pure fighters or rich people.
adam2975
Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:53 am
#24
NJ62 wrote:
I know this is a poll thread, but here is one point that comes up a lot in this game - that we can't fix one thing, because it is a proxy for something else that is broken.
Example: An anonymous feature. All crafters want it. But bounty hunters wail because they need to know that their jedi are online. They claim that because their droids don't work properly, they need to be able to see if jedi are online. The solution should be to fix both, but instead neither is fixed.
Example: Clothing decay and skill tapes. People whine and whine about how their precious skill tapes will decay to nothing. The solution should be to increase the skill tape drop rate to match clothing decay, but instead neither is fixed.
See what I mean? The problem mentioned above is that entertainers don't have enough money to afford high-priced clothes. Well, is that a problem with the entertainer professions or with the tailor profession? And is it right for us to disregard our need for renewable income out of deference to a game mechanic that simply doesn't work? Should we remain broken because another profession is? If that were the case, nothing would get fixed, because different things get fixed at different times, and there will always be some sort of imbalance while one thing is fixed and another is broken.
Bravo, nail on the head and all that.
I vote for clothing experimentation and decay in whatever form it comes in, yeah i'll loose tapes the same as the next person but at the end of the day i would prefer to see the profession move forward.
Ananais2
Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:08 am
#25
i dont mind combat decay so much, tho currently it seems far to high, and while in theory i agree with clothing decaying out of combat i honestly am reluctant to ask for it because it has the potential to cause a lot of people a lot of trouble. If implamented it would lightly either be based on the number of times the pice of clothing was equiped, or the number of actions performed with the pice of clothing equiped.
If it went by the number of times equiped, well it wouldent effect full blown crafters so much, as they would just never unequip it, entertainers on the other hand like to change cloths a lot, this way would really effect them much more than most people, but if done properly may be workable. The people who i really see loseing on this are crafter/combatants, as they would have to equip and unequip there crafting suit every time they crafted.
If it went by actions performed,it again would lightly come down on the ents harder on haveing to replace cloths more frequently, but i think it would be a lot more serious to them this way as cloths would lightly decay faster than with the above method.As forcrafters, tho they may not need to replace as often, would loose multi million credit suits, tho it would take longer for some who mostly make schems, others like shipwrights, who are getting exp tapes now, would suffer more from this. It would also come down pretty hard on tailors with assembely suits as it isnt really practicle to make clothing in a factory.
really i think either way has the potential to cause problems if not implamented very carefully, a lot of people could stand to loose some very expensive modded clothing, and while i know that isnt a tailor problem, i would be very reluctant to ask for changes that in theory let me sell more, but at the cost of others looseing what may be some of there most expensive posetions, and possibley just makeing them not be so interested in cloths, as they just become one more consumably then need to replace all the time, which is a hassle.
as for experimentation, i would like to see it have its place, but not make tailor all about the high end resources.
the way i would do it would be with 3 experiment lines, durability, condition and sockets.
durability would effect how much condition the clothing looses in combat, a full durability experiment (90%+)i would be happy with takeing say 1 point of condition per hit mabey.
condition would obviously add to the condition, this would be usefull i would hope as it would extend the amount of times the item could be repaired to a useable condition, tho i am aware repairs v condition can be debated and proven of limited use, it would also let the warer use the clothing pice for longer between repairs or replacement.
sockets again pretty obvious, say first socket at 20%, second 40%, third 60%, fourth 80% experimentation. Now this would allow for makeing 4 socket suits much easier, but would sacrifice some other stats, people would have to decide if they really "need" 4 sockets on everything now.
now the main thaught behind this idea, is that it should not overly effect fashion tailors, clothing would still start at 1000 condition, and would not decay from use, so in theory it would remain unchanged as much as possible, apart from the number of sockets, even with junk resources, some experiment would still be possible, which could be used on sockets anyway.
this would however give tailors a choice to dabble into the combat clothing market with some higher experimented clothing. Now i would not like to see our sub comps experimented on, just the main pice of clothing and i would definitly not want any well used stats like OQ comeing into play.I am aware that it would lightly go hand in hand with BE clothing for the most part, and would be far from solveing all of tailors problems as i see it, but it dose seem like it would atleast help the situation some, as it would add a form of renewable income which isnt there right now.
Message Edited by Ananais2 on 04-21-2005 04:12 PM
MeciniaLua
Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:12 am
#26
NJ62 wrote:
I know this is a poll thread, but here is one point that comes up a lot in this game - that we can't fix one thing, because it is a proxy for something else that is broken.
Example: An anonymous feature. All crafters want it. But bounty hunters wail because they need to know that their jedi are online. They claim that because their droids don't work properly, they need to be able to see if jedi are online. The solution should be to fix both, but instead neither is fixed.
Example: Clothing decay and skill tapes. People whine and whine about how their precious skill tapes will decay to nothing. The solution should be to increase the skill tape drop rate to match clothing decay, but instead neither is fixed.
See what I mean? The problem mentioned above is that entertainers don't have enough money to afford high-priced clothes. Well, is that a problem with the entertainer professions or with the tailor profession? And is it right for us to disregard our need for renewable income out of deference to a game mechanic that simply doesn't work? Should we remain broken because another profession is? If that were the case, nothing would get fixed, because different things get fixed at different times, and there will always be some sort of imbalance while one thing is fixed and another is broken.
You're not broken. Most average people do not buy clothes every year.
They are not going to increase the drop rates of the experiment and assembly tapes...they should I agree and if they did it would be less an issue. But from past experience they won't.
Combat decay should give us sufficient resales. Keep in mind Jedi and TKMs will not be able to wear armor. However I do agree with your earlier point that if the decay is to fast than folks will just do without. ( One reason I don't think Inspiration buffs are going to be used or generate money for entertainers. Of the groups I've joined in the past on TC, I've been the only one using them ).
Incidentally BH droids work just so you know. One of my toons is a BH so I should know, those that continue to whine just haven't tried..... I've had no trouble finding my target ( I've found the best thing to do is when you take a mission on a player from the terms is to add them to your friends list. Then when you see them come on, remove them and launch the droid )