Tailor Archive
Thread: Tailor Item decay and player colour customization solution
Having a master made item provide additional sockets and condition.
BaronZemm wrote:
Perhaps a system where you can experiment on clothing would be better?
Having a master made item provide additional sockets and condition.
Interesting indeed.
Btw, I am a tailor.
I had though about the dye tub = a bazillion dollars. The previous post is correct though, thats not a good solution.
Beating the horse a little further. I have one more suggestion. An item of clothing can be modified once, the item itself would have to know what pallette it was assembled with. The item can only be coloured to the pallette it was assembled with. Tailors would still have the upperhand with colour selection simply due to experience, knowing what looks good when actually worn.
Couple questions.
If this is such an old issue, why isnt there some kind of visible comprimise made? The joined item colourization is something i would consider a comprimise.
From the sounds of it, most other tailors like having to create dozens of items of various colours each time someone wants an item? I personally find it to be a hassle. Im standing right in front of you, but you cant actaully see what im doing until the item is complete.
If this is the case, it might be a good idea to put a sticky titled.
"Tailors - We like it when you cant see the color options"
or
"Tailors and dye tubs - Why we dont like them"
What makes tailoring in SWG better than tailoring in UO?
Anyways, this is what im left with.
1) If your tired of getting flamed, have a highly visible stick created.
2) Dye tub workaround 1 - You can modify the colour of the item once, based on the pallette used to assemble the item.
3) Dye tub workaround 2 - A 2 way interface allowing tailors and customers to agree on the final colouring of an item. This could probably only be done after the item is created.
4) Dye tub workaround 3 - As snuffleuppagus suggested, some form of fitting room functionality. Allowing the customer to try things on before making a final decision.
Points 3 and 4 are practically the same, and could be implemented in various ways. A joined GUI similair to the ID changes. A artisan created fitting room, or portable fitting room. Which would allow customers to try on clothing, also allowing the tailor to customize the colours in real time.
If the rest of the tailor community feels that the current method of "Assemble the same item 12 times in varying shades of blue" is the ideal solution. I think it should be made known. I looked through the top issues as well as some of the other sticky posts no final solution was agreed upon. That is why I made a post.
Message Edited by BaronZemm on 05-12-2004 04:49 AM
)
BaronZemm wrote:
My friends and I dont buy tailor items for just that reason. Why spend 3k on an item that you probably wont like in a couple of days anyways. People never make things the way you want them to be, getting custom items is just a hassle and the price goes up when the tailor has to spend more than 10 mins thinking about it. Regardless, myself, I cant validate paying 3,5,10k for a 50 resource item.
In another post he writes:
Btw, I am a tailor.
/boggle
No, sorry, you're not a tailor. You might think you are, you might wear a little tag above your head that says you are, but you're not. Not with that attitude.
And as far as why this hasn't been addressed, well, cause we don't want it addressed, that's why. You might think it's important, but we don't, sorry. We've discussed this at length. About 90% of tailors are very strongly against the type of after-the-fact color customizations that you request by non-tailors, and about 50% of tailors are strongly against color customization by tailors after clothing is made, and we've got lots and lots of things that we all agree on that would make tailoring more enjoyable to play, yet almost none of these issues that have been on our top ten since launch have been addressed.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 05-12-2004 10:09 AM
Bleh. I certainly don't want to rehash the bajillion posts on this whole recoloring issue we've already had over the last several months. It's nearly as bad as the bajillion times someone has asked how to macro grind tailor the fastest. Read the FAQ.
However: I read in the ID forum somewhere, a suggestion that DID sound feasible and perhaps desirable. The new before and after UI for IDs but tweaked slightly for Tailor use. Perhaps a single panel screen, as before and after isn't necessary.
Customer and Tailor enter real time transaction screen. Customer wants to see pants. Tailor flips through pants schematics and they appear in the window as it would look ON the customer. Customer browses styles, chooses one. Tailor assembles, it appears in thewindow in the default colors. We are now at the stage of color choices before final assembly. Customer states color preferences, Tailor flips through the palettes until the right combination of colors are found. Customer: "Yay! That's the green I wanted!"Tailor hits final assembly. Item sold.
No remakes to get just that right shade of olive green, wasting resources and crated components, time, patience and credits. No making 12 versions of one thing, all in shades of greens that will never sell off the vendor in 20 blue moons anyway, and you end up destroying them, creating further waste.
No more customers that really have no idea what shade of green they really want, until they see most of them and then choose one, because more often than not they end up choosing a shade far, far off the scale than the one they defined to you in the first place. How many times have you had a customer request olive green, only to have them choose a forest green after you've made a dozen pairs of costly comfortable slacks (with or without BE mods)?
How many times have you had a customer trying to match a loot drop only clothing item, which we all know come in a multitude of barely discernable differences in tans, browns, greens and greys?
How many times have you tried to explain that textures alter hues and item #1 will never exactly match item #2 even if you select the EXACT same box in the color grid only the customer refuses to believe you until after you've made half a dozen items proving your point? Only then to have them state that you must not be a good tailor since you can't match colors. Grrr.
Anyway... I thought the suggestion in the ID forum that wouldn't it be great if Tailors had a UI like the new ID one was a good suggestion. It leaves coloring in the Tailor's realm, where it was meant to be, but still allows for the customer to easily choose what he does want, and for the tailor to show it and make it without any wasted time and resources. And yes, this would mean custom orders would have to be face-to-face, in real time, but many, many of us much, much prefer that interaction anyway! Yes?
But if the Devs ever did decide to give coloring to everyone, with or without a "dye kit" or dye tub" well... color me gone! Patch in some clothing dispensing terminals in all the NPC cities and be done with it.
Qitu
For those that said there ISNT a problem let me re-iterate.
The problem is this: You have to make 12-20 items before you meet the exact colour combination desired. Software can be created to prevent this.
I apologize for stirring up all sorts of OLD ideas. Im restless, I cant help it.
Also, ArthurDentOnBria, if you dont want me to be part of the community thats cool. Whatever. If you want the tailor profession to stay the same forever, then thats fine. If everyone else agrees with you that is also fine. Thats the choice you guys have decided for the profession.
Past updates illustrate that good things can come out of change, and I think that pattern will continue.
P.S. I'm a tailor so we dont have to deal with the hassle anymore.
Message Edited by BaronZemm on 05-12-2004 11:28 AM
You know, I never have the problem of having toeat the cost of12 items to get the color the customer wants. Why? Because before I will make a custom order, I ask the customer if they are trying to match something they already own. If they are, I insist on holding that item so I can examine it and match the color. If not, and the customer does not like the color, I tell them that they can return item for a different color once for free, but any additional attempts will be paid for as we go. If I am left with items that won't sell on a vendor, I place them on the bazaar. There is so little clothing offered on the bazaar anymore, even the oddest colors and styles sell very quickly. Even on a server with an inflated economy, very few of my items cost more than 6000 credits, so I rarely lose money. I also rarely have complaints about my re-make policy, possibly for this reason.
I don't think "you tailors have to make 24 items for free to sell one" is ever going to be a winning argument for allowing non-tailors to color their own clothing, and I feel a bit sorry for any tailor who is allowing customers to dictate to her in this fashion.
Just my 2 credits.
The idea of the holo-preview, or fitting room, or something along those lines has been brought up plenty of times, and like Syzygy said it's been met with generally positive, but somewhat uninthusiastic response. I'd be all for it, but I think there are much bigger items that need addressing first. This sort of thing would seem to me to be a very big effort development-wise, with a smallish payout for us in terms of making tailor better to play.
To me,thebigger gains would be focusing onhaving compelling products that people would be eager to purchase, long before we start worrying about how we go about interfacing with the customer to actually sell them. If the devs fixed no more bugs, didn't finish the implementation of decay, didn't give us any new holo-preview thingies, or any new bells and whistles, I'd be happy IF they just simply gave us half a dozen new schematics each month that go right into our skill tree and aren't some looted thing-a-ma-bob, or some component to enhance some other artisan's stuff.
I talk to so many folks who constantly ask me "so, what's new?" or specifically request things that we can't make (glasses, hooded items, NPC items, things from the movie, things from other movies, and so forth) or request certain bio bonuses we can't give (things for artisans, things for pvp, things for specific advanced classes, and so forth) it gets tiresome answering "there is absolutely nothing new, and no we can't make anything like that".
BaronZemm,
It sounds like you have some good ideas, and are willing to discuss them, perhaps next time you won't start off by stating how much you and your buddies dislike going to tailors and how we rip you off, then saying you are a tailor, lol, still trying to figure that one out.
I started off with the dye tub, I then moved on to talking about the annoyances of getting items made to match desire. I then stated that I had picked up tailor to try and reduce those annoyances. Which has thus far, been successfull.
YES! Thank you Arthur! You cut to the chase. Thank you. The core of dis-satisfaction for both tailors and other players is no new stuff! We want new stuff to make. Simple as that.
Not just one or two items wedged in due to another profession's revamp. Not just rare quest loot schems we can't even get on our own. A few new schematics every publish or so. Like the architects get with the paintings! Simple as that.
Then fix our bugs. Please.
Then give us some content geared to our profession that doesn't force us to rely on a combat profession to group with and protect us or sell the reward to us. Give us more storage, more efficient ways to display our wares, a way to package sell an entire outfit, but viewable on the vendor to the customer, directed sales, commission sales. Maybe even a tailor specific vendor type that allows for one of each style to be listed,with a subcategory listingto see and choose specific colors of that item stored in the stockroom. An actual stockroom that the buyer can pull stock from and purchase!?
(The impending vendor item limit disproportionately penalizes crafters who have a large list of variable schematics and the need to be able to provide a wide variety to appease customer demands and expectations. It forces tailors, weaponsmiths, armorsmiths and architects to spend a lot of skill points in Merchant to be able to have enough vendors to make life easier on both crafter AND customer. The new limits coming will make this even more imperative.)
And then, maybe then a UI that makes viewing styles and color selecting and selling clothing easier on everyone.
And yes, the holo-imaging mirror, or clothing viewer has been discussed here lots of times. But we always thought of it as probably an unprogrammable pipe dream... until we saw the new ID UI. Ooooo. /drools
When the recolorizing issue pops up on it's regular basis here, all these other more pressing concerns are what gets it shoved aside. If we could only ever get some of the above, or find outmaybe when we will, then the issue of recoloring will be moot.
On the other hand, I love how many things we can make, and all the colors, and the fun in working with a customer to choose a style that they like that also looks good on them, the social interaction, the whole hand-crafting every item aspect, the role playability of the profession... it's fun.
I just wish it was easier to have fun doing it without so much micro-managing, time-sinking, bug-irritating, tailor and customer frustrating limitations. And I wish non-crafter, non-social professions would see we have a place here and are a valuable, worthy and fun contribution to the game.
Qitu