Tailor Archive
Thread: Tailor grind: The future?
I realize everyone wants to make good stuff. I realize that everyone wants to be successful. I realize everyone wants to have fun. BUT, this game is not JUST for the casual gamer.This game is"supposed" to be for alltypes of gamers (casual, consistent, and power to name a few).
-Side Note- Let's be real here. There is NO way in Hades a game can cater to all the gamers listed above. -End Side Note-
In SOE's quest to make a game that caters to all types of gamers, they have to strike some type of advancement balance. Personally, I think they have it pretty close. IMO I think they can up the requirements a "little" more, but I'll take it the way it is. I'm a consistent gamer. I probably play 20 to 25 hours a week (around 3 hours a day give or take 1 or 2. Depends on how much the fiance lets me get away with hehe). Eary this week, I made Novice tailor, am 3 skill boxes away from mastering scout, and I'm working towards Novice pistoleer. I think that's just about right. The master professions are MUCH harder to lvl in which is the way it should be. Talk of lowering skill requirements just makes me wonder how easy people want advancement to be. If they lowered the advancement curve, consistent gamers would max out their skills and quickly become bored with the game, which will mean less money as more people cancel their subscriptions (less money = unhappy SOE). Just my opinion. It seems Im in the major minority though, hehe. But that's okay. I'm used to it.
AM,
President, CashMoney Enterprises
I've got no issue with the rate of advancement in Tailoring at this time.
What I WOULD like to see is a big experience bonus based on the quality of the finished product. Currently in Tailoring we have no incentive to use good materials and experiment, because the Durability stat is predetermined and never changes or decays. If it affected the total potential experience of the item, however, people might grind out fewer pieces of better quality. The quality is irrelevant at this point, but taking some of the junk out of the market would be helpful.
The bonus would have to be substantial enough to offset the time-saving advantages of straight grinding. It would also have to be capped by tier to discourage bottom-feeding -- we don't want people with Casual Wear IV grinding out Novice Tailor ribbed shirts just because they can get better experience bonuses from them.
The game is not trimmed for the power-levels. If it were, NONE us consistent or casual gamers would be anywhere near elite professions. And yes, the Devs may have said the game begins once you get to the top, but that does not mean it should be easy to attain. Half the fun for me is knowing I actually accomplishsed something at the end of the day. Maybe I got another skill box. Maybe I made a new friend/customer. Maybe I helped take down a tough mob. I like the feeling of achievement. It would depress me to no end if I were to walk down a Theedian street and see Elite Master Titles everywhere.
Now, I do agree with you that it would be nice to have a better, more fun way to get tailoring xp. The problem isHOW to accomplish this. The obvious answer would be have the tailor make a variety of stuff the market is interested in. Businesses in RL have experts that work on this enigma. It's just has hard for a developer to determine this in an MMO as well.
All in all, th Devs have done a wonderful job with this game considering its predecessors. I know that if you haven't played other MMO's before, its a lost concept. But trust me, its pretty cool. And ya wanna know the best part? It's just gonna get better! With all the stuff they have planned in the near future (not to mention the space expansion /salivates), this game will evolve into a sight to behold. Just hang on for a little while. You'll see.
AM,
President, CashMoney Enterprises
The devs have stated numerous times that it should take the average player 3 months to reach master status. The average player plays 20 hours a week based on industry wide studies done on multiple games. That means 240 hours. Therefore a casual player who plays 10 hours a week should take 6 months. From what I've read on this post, it sounds like the advancement rate is pretty close to where it was meant to be, if anything it's a bit fast.
Also, the 1/10th xp for factories that i mentioned above is not an upcoming nerf. It is something that was implemented in beta and I thought was still in place. I don't have a factory yet, so could anyone tell me if they have actually done a study to monitor factory xp to see if this is still in place?
Hey, wait a minute! I'm the one that fails at enjoying the gameby other means than levelling up? Aren't you the one who started a thread called: Tailor grind: The future? I have tons of fun playing this game and I don't grind unless I have nothing else to do. Even when I do "grind" I make stuff that I can sell, packs and robes mainly.I like the game the way it is. If you want faster advancement, you have to play more. It's that simple.
AM,
President, CashMoney Enterprises
Solace, dont worry =D You're not the only one.
I have made it to novice tailor, and half way to my first skill box without ever grinding a single item. I make stuff for my friends, I sell bulk orders to some people with vendors. It all sells! I just got my own factory last night to make synthetic cloth to sell to armorsmiths.
I have a TON of fun.
I was going to apply for the correspondent position, but you know what? I CANT STAND to read these boards anymore. You people who grind just depress me too much. Especially those who make 10,000 ribbed shirts in a factory and get free xp (when you KNOW in your hearts that you're cheating the system). Factories were never meant to give crafting xp. They gave Industrialist XP. And when they cut industrialst somebody just switched over the xp type without realizing the ramifications.
You are not SUPPOSED to get to master tailor in 2 weeks by using your factory to make ribbed shirts. And no matter how much fun those of us who are playing within the spirit of the game are having - sometimes it gets Depressing!.. to know that you are losing so much business to people who jsut want to blow through their profession in the most un-fun and exploitative way possible.
Solace, for now we are still doing okay, because these massive grinders dont actually SELL any of that crap they make on the way to master. But as soon as they are all masters... we will be out of luck.
I used to not care.. you know.. if someone wanted to powerlevel, good for them... they're the ones ruining the game for themselves. But you know what? You ruin it for all of us! And you're darned right I hate you! I HATE grinders.
Hehe, i don't think I'd go so far as hating the grinders, but I do agree with you Alichai. But you know what? As long as I'm enjoying myself, I don't care if any of my stuff sells. Just going to enjoy myself. I wish everyone well in their endeavors.
AM,
President, CashMoney Enterprises
I have my factories make all my components. I have two of them right now, used to have one but armorsmiths where buying all my factory crates of fabrics so I got a second one. Right now I sell about3/4's of what I make in them to armorsmiths, the other 1/4 I use myself to make clothes. I think I can count ontwo hands the number of clothes I've actually destroyed and that's always because I need inventory space for something else and I was full. I'm a merchant on the side and I try to keep my store stocked with goods. Right now I have almost 300 clothes on it. Every day I probably sell about 60 items thru it and double that number face to face.
Do I consider what I'm doing exploiting? Not at all. I'm playing the game the way it is right now. Do I consider myself a horrible grinder? Nope, I grind a bit but I sell almost everything I make.
Right now I'm at field wear 4 and formal 3. Do I think I ruin the game for everyone else? Not on your life. I've helped so many people get clothes that they want that I feel I've helped tons of people so far. Not to mention all the armorsmiths I've supplied with countless crates of synth cloth and reinforced fiberpanels. Without me they would have been SOL for making their armor.
I'm sorry if I have destroyed the game for you but I just don't see it that way. In a game like this you'll never make everybody happy anyway.
TripleDES wrote:
I don't want to grind, but I don't see myself mastering the profession in two months as Raph planned casuals to be able to either.
I don't think Raph ever said this. The only thing I saw from him is that it should take the average player 3 months to master any profession. The industry standard based on multiple gamessays the average player plays20 hours per week. It was never intended for the casual player to be a master in 2 months.
But that strikes me as a very shallow way of playing the game- the more grind, the more you get attached to your character. Haha! Well, repetition is good, so they say.
I get attached to my characters, in a good mmog. This feeling was very strong in UO especially, arguably a mmog with the least grind of the current mainstream crop (though admittedly I haven't played every one of them). Not because I spent a whole lot of time grinding or gaining skills but because of my character's place in the community. I ran a shop, I was part of a player town, I sometimes pvp'ed and made friends there as well. I had a network of friends in game. That's valuable, and that's why I took pride in my character. Not the amount of skills your character has.
I play the game completely the opposite way from you I guess. I view the skillboxes as an arbitrary, mindless hurdle to overcome before I can start with the real meat of the game- business! Or even just making people look good.
Besides that I just can't believe people still advocate the grind- as if it's a good thing in any shape or form.
Having said that, I haven't really encountered real intolerable grind in SWG- advancement is generally fast enough to keep sight of your goals. I am probably a powergamer by Raph's definition though- I have to firmly agree with TripleDES that the advanced professions are all pretty much inaccessible to casual players (less than 20 hours playtime a week). How exactly is that a good thing again? Character attachment? Ex-EQ by any chance?