Tailor Archive
Thread: OMG Master Level Items for under 2000 credits
SOE did not DICTATE an economy for us. They left the game open which allows the players to form the game and have an effect on the environment we play in. Now, as philosophy majors will tell you, the problem with free will is that as soon as you curtail someone putting it to poor use, you devalue it for everyone. So no, what you are doing is not curtailed by SOE, nor should it be. However, having the right to do something doesn't make it right to do. You are adding to what will obviously pan out as the failure of the player-run economy. You complain that SOE created a game without goals, and then self-righteously proclaim how wonderful you are in adding to the problem. Yeah, SOE expected people to be able to put two and two together. "Hey, if I sell these masterwork items for what it takes a new player 4 hours to earn, I'm taking away an obvious goal and putting a nice dent an economy that I could help create. I GUESS I WON'T DO THAT." What SOE failed to consider is that griefers can master the crafting professions too.
I don't expect to change anyone's mind. But if you're going to sit here and complain about the very problems you're creating, I'm going to point out that you're a toolbox. I realize that you'll just retaliate with more of your pretentious nonsense. I frankly don't care; it's what I'd expect from any griefer. I would be embarassed and apologetic if such a large number of my peers felt that something I was doing was hurting them and the game we were all playing. But then, I'm a functioning human being, and for us, that's the normal response. Don't blame anyone else, and certainly don't blame SOE. It's like blaming Wizards of the Coast because you were running a Monty Haul D&D campaign and all your players got bored.
don't bother he's been spouting the same garbage since day one.
It basically boils down to... in any economy there are those that sell a bit above their material cost margin. These are the minority and really don't effect the big picture. I don't see Phil Knight from Nike selling shoes for 25 cents, although his material cost margin is below that. I don't see Burger King charging 29 cents for a hamburger. I don't see Microsoft charging 15 cents for Windows....
These companies all do fine, make plenty of money, and their portion of the economy is not destroyed by WalMart shoes, the Greasy Spoon, or Linux. I'm not stressing, I don't think it's worth it, just like the people that espouse how we're shafting the players by charging the standard rate, instead of a .0185 credit x the square root of the percentage of the GNP of Naboo...because that makes us a profit. I'm not in it to make a profit. I'm doing this because I enjoy crafting, enjoy tailoring, and the time, effort, and game credits put forth for me to attain the ABILITY to make these items is worth...15k credits per master item. I don't care if it takes 4 hide to make something, I don't charge on resources and never have. I charge on what it is worth as the person that devoted the time to get the skill.
Zafrod wrote:
You complain that SOE created a game without goals, and then self-righteously proclaim how wonderful you are in adding to the problem. Yeah, SOE expected people to be able to put two and two together. "Hey, if I sell these masterwork items for what it takes a new player 4 hours to earn, I'm taking away an obvious goal and putting a nice dent an economy that I could help create. I GUESS I WON'T DO THAT." What SOE failed to consider is that griefers can master the crafting professions too.
Well, Gee. I see it all now. I will immeidately begin making more and more goals for people. Far be it from me to expect the game makers to actually put real goals in the game. We'll concentrate on making more and more credits so that we can buy more and more "goals" from other crafters. Forget meaningful quests (the theme parks are a joke). Forget real story events (we'll have people hunt disks by killing 100000000 PCs. No need for us to write a story that really interacts with players). Forget balance PvP (Hey, let's give the imperials a kill everything pet and the rebels nothing). Let's implement Grand Healer's robes. That will make the game's goals complete.
I think not.
Zafrod wrote:
But then, I'm a functioning human being, and for us, that's the normal response. Don't blame anyone else, and certainly don't blame SOE. It's like blaming Wizards of the Coast because you were running a Monty Haul D&D campaign and all your players got bored.
The idea you believe you're a "functioning human being" based off how you play a video game is the best laugh I've had all morning.
**edit** Leep now your a griefer, hope you dont get banned for your clothing prices.
This thread has degraded well below being useful. Why cant we just agree to disagree, because I for one will never agree with the "Charge more because we can" mentality.
And I really dont get how, by charging less, that Im going to ruin the economy, at the prices I do very well for myself, and no Im not PA funded. Everything I have now, I had before I joined a PA. And even now, I mine all my own resources and either buy or hunt for my own hides.
Not that it applies in game, other than it's a free market economy and the USA is too... but, price fixing is highly illegal in the United States.
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Snowleeper wrote:
Well, Gee. I see it all now. I will immeidately begin making more and more goals for people. Far be it from me to expect the game makers to actually put real goals in the game. We'll concentrate on making more and more credits so that we can buy more and more "goals" from other crafters. Forget meaningful quests (the theme parks are a joke). Forget real story events (we'll have people hunt disks by killing 100000000 PCs. No need for us to write a story that really interacts with players). Forget balance PvP (Hey, let's give the imperials a kill everything pet and the rebels nothing). Let's implement Grand Healer's robes. That will make the game's goals complete.
I think not.
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I'll certainly agree with the last sentence. The rest, well, there you go, Snow. It's everybody else's responsibility. Yes, yes, I know. Yet it seems to me, if a game without prescripted goals doesn't appeal to you, this isn't the game for you. Some of us like the fact that we aren't railed into goals that are dictated for us. Instead, we create goals for ourselves and, yes, we create goals for each other. See, this is how a community works... we've purchased an online game because we prefer a gaming experience with other people. This game is complete. Everything they add is a bonus. It's not meant for people like you. Seriously. It's meant for people who can make their own fun and work as a community to keep things fresh and interesting. Since you are, as evidenced by your complaints, incapable of this, you complain about the game being incomplete, whine about people who are creating a community and roleplaying (remember your old diatribe about roleplayers? I do.), and sabatoge the system the game was designed to use. You think not indeed.
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Snowleeper wrote:
The idea you believe you're a "functioning human being" based off how you play a video game is the best laugh I've had all morning.
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Doesn't surprise me in the least. Most griefers feel the same way... that the anonymity of online games excuses them from the responsibility of acting like a decent person. Sure, you wouldn't be so callous and self-righteous if you were looking in our faces. But see, some of us don't feel we need to find excuses to behave badly... we just don't feel the need to behave badly. And simply because you're older and educated doesn't make your behavior any more acceptable... if anything, you should know better. Those of us practiced in social interaction know that when we're doing something that our peers find distasteful and damaging, one's best bet is to take a critical look at what one is doing and change. If you choose to play a social game, you take on the responsibility of socially acceptable behavior. Out of sheer curiosity, do you feel none of this responsibility in your real life, or is it only in game you find social responsibility to be laughable?
Zafrod wrote:
I'll certainly agree with the last sentence. The rest, well, there you go, Snow. It's everybody else's responsibility. Yes, yes, I know. Yet it seems to me, if a game without prescripted goals doesn't appeal to you, this isn't the game for you. Some of us like the fact that we aren't railed into goals that are dictated for us. Instead, we create goals for ourselves and, yes, we create goals for each other. See, this is how a community works... we've purchased an online game because we prefer a gaming experience with other people. This game is complete. Everything they add is a bonus. It's not meant for people like you. Seriously. It's meant for people who can make their own fun and work as a community to keep things fresh and interesting. Since you are, as evidenced by your complaints, incapable of this, you complain about the game being incomplete, whine about people who are creating a community and roleplaying (remember your old diatribe about roleplayers? I do.), and sabatoge the system the game was designed to use. You think not indeed.
That's a silly position. The game is complete? Well, let's not bother with player cities and vehicles then. Let's not make any changes in the code. No further story events. The game is complete and we need no more content. In fact, let's not have a space expansion. After all, the MMO is finished out of the box. Bugs and all. From the look of the in development page, it'll be quite sometime before they fix the broken-on-release content like theme parks. Of course, you believe that the scripts intended to hand out rewards where designed that way. After all the game is complete. Add in all the class skills that don't work or broken recipes for tradecrafting, sounds to me like it's a complete game.
As far as making a viable community, every MMO on the market has a community that works together. It's just that those other MMOs actually have something to do in between community events. SWG doesn't have any such features. Want to sell your goods? You don't even have to meet face to face. Load up the bazaar. Want to heal? Walk into a hospital or bar and offer credits. Want to buy X "goal" from Y crafter? Run missions for money. Even the "story telling" events in game are simple search and destroy missions. Where's the depth? Where's GMs running them? Not present. Just a bunch of players claiming their roleplay is supposed to be the content and tell you to run 35 destory missions to "earn" the "goal" of a having a Grand Healer's Robe. WOO HOO. Nothing like achievement of spending 9 hours running missions to buy a piece of clothing that cost the crafter 500 credits to make. WOW. What an achievement.
Zafrod wrote:
Doesn't surprise me in the least. Most griefers feel the same way... that the anonymity of online games excuses them from the responsibility of acting like a decent person. Sure, you wouldn't be so callous and self-righteous if you were looking in our faces. But see, some of us don't feel we need to find excuses to behave badly... we just don't feel the need to behave badly. And simply because you're older and educated doesn't make your behavior any more acceptable... if anything, you should know better. Those of us practiced in social interaction know that when we're doing something that our peers find distasteful and damaging, one's best bet is to take a critical look at what one is doing and change. If you choose to play a social game, you take on the responsibility of socially acceptable behavior. Out of sheer curiosity, do you feel none of this responsibility in your real life, or is it only in game you find social responsibility to be laughable?
In the 13th century a priest in a European city began to sell salt at a price that most poor people could acutally afford. His "peers" were upset that he priced his salt at half their cost. They were so upset they couldn't cheat the poor, they eventually framed him for selling ashes as salt. Theyclaimed that the only way he could sell so cheap what by poisoning the poor. They tried to have him put to death and his property seized so they could maintain their salt monoply. If he was a crafter in this game, you're call him a griefer and demand he stop ruining the "economy." In truth he was simply selling his product for a small affordable profit when the others were gouging the townspeople. He was also showing that the "peers" are not alway correct.
Need another example? The "good" germans who quietly stood by as the Jews were rounded up and gassed. They believed the community and society were doing what was right for the Volk. The few people that stood up against the mob were jailed and killed along side of the Jews. Using your logic it served them right for going against their peers and the community.
Looks like I'm in good company by not yielding to your mob mentality. Don't like it, tough.
Learn to think for yourself. Marching in lockstep with people just makes you a robot in jackboots.
You are comparing a video game to the Holocaust?
I think with that, this thread needs to be put to rest. End it here, folks.
"" Ri'a Ocoli"" Uniform Marshal, Kettemoor
"" Clothes by Ri'a is 1km north of Keren at 1190, 3770
"" .. my door is always open, stop by any time!
No, I'm comparing the statement that the community and your peers always knows what's best in game to same concept that caused the holocaust. Why? Because that attitude directly resulted in the holocaust. Just because someone else is doing what you're doing, doesn't make it right.
Yeah, I'm with Anita here. Don't think I need to point out the inanity of comparing selling masterwork tailor items to the gassing of innocent jews. I'm done here. Go nuts, Leeper. Grief away. You're not fooling anybody but yourself, and I'm tired of caring.
"I'm out of it for a little while, and everybody starts getting delusions of grandeur."
Barsook wrote:
Not that it applies in game, other than it's a free market economy and the USA is too... but, price fixing is highly illegal in the United States.
In Real Life you need money to eat, have a place to sleep and survive in society. My tailor is never hungry (though he can get full), never tired (though I have to sleep) and only needs to pay rent as a luxury. You cannot compare real life to SWG, otherwise people would starve to death and have to make a new character.
Some people are going to charge a pittance for clothes 'cos they take X and y resources in whatever amount. In real life these people would probably be out of business, or eking out a meagre existence. In SWG, you can go away for eight days and come back with nothing different to your character (barring maint fees).
So, of course, if time has no value, people don't feel the need to charge for their time.
I disagree. My time I spend with my customer is time I could spend earning money running missions or doing something really fun. Especially now that I'm a Master Tailor and I have no need for tailoring XP, any time spent crafting for little or no monetary reward is time I could spend elsewhere.
I like serving my customers. I enjoy getting them into that outfit that they had in their mind's eye when they came into my shop. But I'm not doing it for free. I'm a businessman, not a philanthropist.
*AHEM*
on a related note, some guy came in asking me how much my flightsuits are. i said 8k, and he told me "but they're on the bazaar for 3k". i told him that i can't help it when people undercut me, and that 8k is my price. my customer i was helping defended me by saying "i rather pay more for quality", in which the response was "you think your clothes are 3 times better"
no, i mean mine are 8k. i understand other people sell it cheaper, but if it says Pappi Inc on it, and i made it, it's going for the price i set. it might very well be looted... but don't come into my shop and question my prices, then proceed to offer a wookiee arm wrap for 50cr, even when i announced that i ignore all offers 
i also had some guy stalk me after i banned him from my shop, but that's for a different thread... is it just me, or do tailors generally attract strange people? 
