Tailor Archive

That Idea could possibly work. so even if you die and are insured the clothing would suffer decay?

Either way, somehow we need to be able to cycle clothing out like other objects or you could have a serious database load on your hands as tons and tons of garments come in but never go out of the game.

Thanks for the update Holo.

However, someone (not necessarily you)could have cleared up this misconception caused by the poor wording of the patch notes much sooner. As it stands the boards have been in an uproar over this for the past 6 hours. You need to hire that assistant community manager soon.

basically what we have here is piss poor programming. They can't take the time to port over the armor decay method so they just want to do something that will take 1 loop to decay all items. The best idea i have read here is to just copy over the armorsmith code to the tailor profession. This would be the easiest and fastest solution.

For the armor/clothing crafting tool problem:

Since the idiot programmers decided that 8 bits was enough for everything the tailor/armorsmiths got screwed. All they need to do is copy over the code for the armor/clothing crafting tool and make them seperate tools.

The only problem here is I doubt the Devs call the shots. They get orders from someone above them who says fix combat first since we need the mindless idiots who run around and shoot things more than the crafters. Because of this, the devs will never have enough time to fix the crafting professions and we will be left out to dry .

I don't know why you don't put in clothing decay based on when clothes are actually *worn*...

/shrug

Holocron wrote:

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2) We agree that tailors (and others!) need decay in their crafted items so that there's market turnover. We're trying to solve that solution for all the professions at once via a general solution, though, not implementing a tailor-specific solution.

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This is a bit confusing, the decay on death system won't work with this statement, so obviously it can't be the solution you are currently working on. OMG, I just thought of something. Do you plan to let all items owned, or placed by, or placed inside buildings ownedby someone decay if they die? I didn't think so. Personally I think you can try as you might, you can't come up with a solution that works on every single item in game (ok time based decay works, but as you stated that's out of the question, and I agree). Some solutions I cooked up:

Clothing: Worn

Armor: Worn and taking hits

Harvesters: Used?

Buildings: visited, time spent in by players? Bad idea. I think houses should be an exception to the rule, since they really don't produce anything. Yeah I know, vendors, nonetheless, I get constant input from people not buying houses because of upkeep. Should I tell them soon there will be decay too and they will have to repurchase in about 2 months?

Furniture: based on the decay a house gets? How about let us color the stuff, that will keep the market up for some more time. It's not a final solution though,I know. Look at real life, people spend months laying out their house, buying furnituresoafter that they can settle and enjoy it for a long time (hence decay by time on furniture is bad, since it will impose the same frustration as furniture "decay" IRL). If they get bored by it, they buy new stuff. Do it that way too, implement new furniture to keep the market up, base decay on moving the furniture, placing it and putting it back in your inventory, just like RL moving.

Crafting tools/ Survey tools: based on use

Weapons: based on use, as seen in SWG

I know I missed some items, but I have to move on now. The bottom line: Just start implementing code for different types of items, the sooner you start the sooner you're done with it.

Leon McNamara

Master Artisan//Master Architect

Hehe this is too funny.

The game is out 2 months and they are still thinking about how to solve basicgame principlessuch as item decay.

It really is simple.

First you divide the items into categories.

In group 1 you'd have weapons and armour

In group 2 you'd have clothing and miscellaneous other items.

In group 3 you'd have furniture.

Next implement a system of static decay so that everything decays very slowly in the game. For static decay items in category 1 decay the slowest and items in category 3 the fastest.

Now implement usage decay. With usage items in catgegory 1 decay the fastest and 3 the slowest.

Next factor in the durability of the finished item. Items with 94% durability would decay at 6% of thenormal speed. Items with 60% would decay at 40% speed.

Not only does this make some items virtually indestructable (but not quite) it makes a much higher market for high durability good quality items.

If you buy a gun that has 99% durability you wouldn't have to replace it formaybe a year. The same with a piece of furniture (since it has the fastest static decay).

Unfortunately people hate logging in to see some of their items decayed, but it is totally necessary to a player driven economy. All I'm saying is make it slow enough so it's not too much of an inconvenience.

It seems they have decided on this allready and we are out of luck.

But my idea would be, if an item gets to 0% then it cant be used, not just vanish, people would delete them anyway and aleast know the reason.

There should be 2 decay rates, a higher 1 for use and a very very low one for non-use.

And if we go with this incap/death thing, maybe I should grab random items of furniture out of my house when I go hunting, like a bed, just to get a realistic decay affect.

Come on.... Of corse there is going to be OVERWHELMING desire NOT to have clothing decay... A full set of clothing will now last FOREVER. The OVERWHELMING demand to NOT have it decay is because you have 15,000 players per server and about 100 master tailors (or less). I would think that it would be overwhelming. Do the math... that is les thn 1% of the entire server population. Now they NEVER have to buy clothes again. For some reason I can see the number of Master Tailors dropping from 100 to maybe 10. It is a horrid craft to master (look at the XP required to master it... the highest XP item to craft gives like 330 XP points).

Based on that theroy.. Armor should no longer decay either. It is a form of protection.. it is worn. It carries attributed (enhancements).

Right now armor is so broken (Cannot add BE pieces / Protection enhancements do not work / no way of knowing if they are applied) few people wear it because of the lack of increased protection it seems to provide over encumberment. People therefore spend their money on clothes. Most people will gladly pay 10K credits for a set of clothes especially if t willNEVER decay.

I would like to propose that clothing decay not as armor does (taking damage) but rather over a time basis. The better the experimentation the longer it will take to degrade. The longer you wear it the more it decays. Just like regular clothing. I do not think people would mind if it took 3 months for a shirt they paid 1K for to decay. This is the most similar to RL clothing on average use. We all know that if you are shot with a blaster 10,000 times that it should degrade faster but I think this will be a happy medium for all.

The real problem may be underlying that SoE just cannot figure out how to fix all the articles of clothing already out there. If this is the case.. start them all at about 20K across the board. Then go from there... Unless they cannot figure out how to program it in... In that case they should just say so.

Thanks for your time,

JutMan

Im fairly sure that i am repeating what has already been said several times over in this thread but it seems the outcry yesterday was the only thing that got us a response from the devs.

Clothes need decay. They dont need it in2 months when you guys finally get round to it, they need it now. The market is becoming saturated with master tailors, just as it is becoming saturated by most other master crafting classes. This is great if there is a turnover of goods in the market, but with clothing, there isnt. Someone buys an outfit from us and that is it, they have it forever. We have to rely on people wanting more than one outfit, or fancying a change of colour.

Ive spent a little time looking over my sales for the last month or so. 84% of my sales are from dancers. So you introduce clothing decay on uninsured items. Dancers are notorious for dying lots /sarcasm off. So at some point, the largest percentage of my customer base will have every item that they want.

Now lets add some other factors into this. The bio-engineered components which can give us a little bit of variety on our sales... dont work. Sure, you can see this as being a BE issue rather than a tailor one, but Im just trying to examine other avenues for us here. We can't expand into armoursmithing because of a bug that is still on going preventing us from having more than 256? (i dont exactly remember the number) schematics in our datapad.

Add to this the fact that now experimentation has been removed from clothing components. Armoursmiths dont want to buy from me. They claim there is a difference in the armour they produce dependent on whether the components came from a master tailor who could fully experiment or a just-hit-novice tailor who just cranks them out. Now, why should they buy from me?

So, summarising the situation for tailors :-

1) Clothes dont decay and the immediate solution is to put a decay rate based on death or incapacitation assuming that people havent insure their items.

2) We cant expand into what would be a very nice coupling profession because you havent fixed the bug of too many schematics

3) We cant expand into bio-engineered clothing because you havent made them work.

What exactly do you propose that we do? There are new master tailors popping up daily on the servers and those clothes arent going anywhere.

So here are some proposals

if you dont want to implement time based clothing decay, which apparently you dont due to overwhelming opinion in beta (i wasnt in beta, i cant comment) then you are going to have to make different categories which result in clothing decay.

Dancers lose action as they dance, why can't they slowly wear down their clothes? Im fairly sure this wont be popular with them, but surely spending money on the way they look should be one of their main over heads? Thats the nature of their profession, they have to look the part to stand out from the rest.

Fighting classes by the new proposal would suffer clothing decay if they died but werent insured. This isnt good enough. When people are in combat they get wounds. How on earth can they be wounded but suffer zero damage to their clothes? Decay should be based on how much they are fighting and getting wounded, not on whether they hit the dirt or not.

Give people a reason to want clothing. You have reduced the encumberances on armour to be more viable now. Make those bio-engineered enhancements work. Let us produce clothing that has stats. Give us something to advertise to those combat professions as a reason to why they should consider clothing instead of armour. Of course armour should provide the best protection, but that comes at a cost (encumberances), at least give us something decent to provide as an alternative.

You decided to make armour hueable. You decided to link that directly to the tailoring line. This isnt something we cried out for. Now its time that you sat down and fixed that bug which prevents tailors going armoursmith. I trained armoursmith last week and found that i could no longer craft 80% of the schematics for my tailoring line. Sure I could sit down and work out which number in /selectdraftschematic # corresponds to which tailored item. But i play this game for fun, and to be honest, watching paint dry would show serious appeal over doing that for several hours. I refuse to believe that this bug is anything major. Find out whatever error it is in your code which is causing this and get it solved!

Ive played this game since release as have many of the people on this board. Overall I dont think the tailoring community is a particularl "whining" one. I know i have never posted any flames or open attacks about the quality of this game in the past. But come on, we have stuckby you after 2? 3? weeks of factory bugs. We have stuck by you when vendors went crazy and started eating our items of which most people (including myself) never received any compensation for) We have stuck by you through disapearing harvesters / houses, clothes randomly poofing if people put a backpack on over a certain item. We even stuck by you when you managed to "lose" 55 colours from our palete.

You take those servers down every single day for maintenance or restarts. How about you make us realise just why that is and put some fixes in. The clothing market doesnt have time for you guys to sit down and brain storm over this. Our correspondent has quit through sheer frustration. We need a fix NOW and we need a good one at that. I for one, will be one of the tailors hanging up her needle and thread if you guys dont sort this soon. You had a vision of a player driven economy. You will never acheive this unless items disappear from the market as well.

Kind Regards,

Tally, Master Tailor of Naboo, Eclipse

I think clothing should be handled just like real life:

Why do we wear clothing?

It provides protection from environmental conditions such as temperature, weather, etc.

The game already simulates environmental affects with changing weather (to some degree - i.e. Rain Storms). Temperature can be simulated with in game message saying wether its Hot or Cold out (Changing as you move into the snow covered mountains or come down into the warmer valleys...). Messages can say that you are shivering or sweating or just be generic saying your cold. Perhaps an ambient temperature reading could be added to the radar display (That would be my choice). Temperature could be mapped just like a spawned resource density %. As you move around, the temperature reading could display the temperature at your location. Lots of ways to do this....

Just impose a baseenvironmental penalty on all your attributesdue to weather conditions. That will force everyone to wearappropriate clothing (Wooly Jacket anyone?) or suffer...just like real life.

There should be no penalty for anyone indoors (Love that central Heat and AC - not to mention scantily clad dancers).

Next, forget the clothing decay issue and give clothing combat damage just like armor. People wont run around naked due to the weather penalties affecting their attributes/skills.

Dancers clothing not wearing out? Have all entertainers clothing very slowly decay when they perform.

Problem Solved.

xoxoxoxoxox

Look im not a tailor or anything.. i just pound stuff and kill stuff. I dont like the idea that one day im gonna be walking around town and all of a sudden, my muscle shirt or pocketed shorts is gonna come flying apart at the seams.

Holo has even mentioned that ALL artisan items will one day take dmg.... you trying to tell me that some couch i have in my house is just going to decay? I have a guild hall... i pay a huge amount for upkeep everyday, it should cover all things in my home.

I agree that one day no one would buy more clothes if they had everything already, thats why the art department needs to come up with more items for you guys to make on a regular basis (like a Ranger Hat).

If it gets too bad ill just run around in underwear all the time. im TKA and ranger, i need very little.

Holocron is NOT missing the point here.

I was in beta.. and item decay was horrible! The only reason items should decay is if you are USING THEM!

If I store items ina bag.. and leave them there.. they should not decay. Its just like putting your suits in a suit bag and placing them in your closet.. how long do they last? Years.. decades.. centuries. Clothing is well tailored.. not to mention the future how the genre of SWG is based on will be using much more advanced clothing crating techniques.

I dont care if clothing decays when I wear it.. because I wear many different outfits constantly.. and so do TONS of other people even in battle. Armor is nice.. but when you are solo it is just not worth the cost of HAM (IMO).

If clothing starts decaying while sitting in my packs.. I just wont buy clothing. I will wear armor which I can craft myself. And if they do implement the code to decay items which are stored in containers etc.. then I expect the same to happen with armor. Because its only fair that way!

The only reason tailors are asking for clothing to decay whether its stored or not is because they can replace it easily for themselves.

uhmm....Tailors aren't asking for items to decay while stored...quite the opposite if you read the thread. Most all of us agree that's a bad bad policy all around.

I think most tailors want clothing to decay on USE...and not at massively short rates either. I, for one, would like clothing to decay over a LONG space of time...months. Its not made of paper after all. LOL more than half the stuff I make uses some sort of metal in it...and I don't feel its even rational to think that clothing would decay very quickly.

Bridget

I am not a tailor, I am not even a crafter, but come on! Even I know this is just dumb! No decay? Decay only from death? Heck I'd never take my clothes with me, just my armor!

You say you did thid because of community feedback, well I can just imagine whose feedback this is and what else they they are whining for. If you continue to listen to these pple, I can just imagine future "fixes":

• Corpse retreival will not be implemented again, we have recieved overwhelmeing community feedback, and well players want a quick way to get home when they are out in the boonies, and they really don't want to walk back half naked to get their stuff. Of course this also removes the need to insure anything. Heck you know what? No need to clone either, now when you die you are given the choice to pop back up anywhere in the world you like or just stand back up where you are with full health and kepp on fighting!


• Novice Creature handlers rejoice! You can now own a Rancor! Yes, you heard right, we heard the overwhelming requests and complaints that you should so be able to use them and the non-CH's were practically almost sorta even better than you, so you may now go pick up a Rancor from your Creature Handler trainer, free of charge. I mean come on why make you even go out and find one, you would get it eventually anyway, right?


• Well we have scaned the board over real fast and pickout the posts that stood out the most, you know the ones in caps and highlights all the way through. Ok we hear ya! Because of overwhenling community feedback, every new player will start with one profession of their choice mastered, 250k credits in the bank, 500 skill points,10k FP of their choice, and ofcourse you will all be FS. But wait, we know you are saying, but DEVS WE HAVE BEEN HERE FOR LIKE EVER, YOU KNOW 3 WHOLE MONTHS, AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT, WE SHOULD GET DOUBLE EVERYTHING THEY DO!! Well you will! You now have double the skillpoints they do, you have one new profession of your choice added and mastered, 500k credits added to your bank, 20k FP of your choice, and you are all Master Jedi!!

Ok so I eggagerate a bit, hehe. But it does seem that the devs have really dropped the ball on this one and have kowtowed so the pple who want the easy way through everything. I for one plan on buying new clothes on a regular basis even if I don't need to, just to help out tailors, but I am prob'ly part of a minority, and I doubt that we are enough to keep the tailors heads above water.