Tailor Archive
Thread: OMG Master Level Items for under 2000 credits
Hmm that was spike or lag apologies for the above but there is not delete option.
Hi Donnah,
I understand your reluctance to approach dancers in their underwear after reading that. lol Nevertheless, I was a few days into the game and to me the white bra matched the white skirt I used. To me, as a newb, the bra I wore was less revealing than the bras everyone else wore. I hadno problem with the bra and the long skirt. The colors matched.
Irealized I would not be able to buy a top of the line item. I did know, however, thatI wanted some sort of bra or vest to put with the skirt.My expectation wasto build my wardrobe up. I have seenmany new dancers with fleshwraps,large headwear,and exotics.Typically I hear them say they still owe money on them.
When playersask me where I purchase my clothes, weapons, pets, armor I generally share that information and I'll continue to do so, however estatically that may be. It took me a long time to find agreat tailor and I was happy to share his name.
Lora is a sweetie, and should not be harassed or flamed for trying to do something so that all tailors can agree on something. Shame on you.
I'm glad you're happy about your clothing prices, but in all honesty, I, as a tailor who bought nearly all of my skill boxes, cannot justify those prices. I own my own factories, maintain my own vendors (sub let a master merchant that I have to pay for the services), maintain my own harvesters through hired miners and my own lots, and pay scouts for meat and hide. I can't fathom that anyone selling that low doesn't have a PA supplying them, more accounts and macros for harvesting, or is duping. I could be wrong, but if there's a way to do it otherwise, I have yet to find it.
At 2k for a master item, I have gone in the red.
This isn't a fair tailor selling items at cost, because at least for me, this is way, way below cost. This is another tailor claiming to be "fair" and driving his competition out of business. He's more than kind to his customers, but the bottom line is, either you, as a competitor,meet his prices (which you can't do) or you quit and move on to another field. Ingenious. That's one really effective way to get rid of your competition, it happens every day in the real world.
*sigh*
Creepoh wrote:
The one part of this whole debate that I object to is that anyone who does charge over 2K for a flightsuit or whatever is "evil" and a "rip-off artists". Although no one has used these terms outright, if you look at the language that's clearly what they're implying. I have alredy stated several times that people can charge what they want (and if fact you don't even need my permission), and customers can pay what they want.
Dear Creepoh, don't you see that it works both ways? You (as in the higher pricing tailors) might think that we (as in the lower pricing tailors) are calling you "evil" and "rip-off artists", but in return we feel like you're saying that we're willfully destroying the economy, intentionally trying to ruin it for other tailors and maliciously taking away the fun for players. I get the sense that we're painted off as cruel to our customers, that we don't care for our profession, that we're stupid and wasting our time, etc, etc. In fact, many of these things have literally been said to me.
All I'm trying to do is understand how it can be that you're unable to make a profit at lower prices. How it can be that you're unwilling to use lower prices. I've got prices that I'm happy with. It's a little higher than what some charge, and a lot lower than what most charge apparently. But does that make me a bad person? Does that mean that I have any evil intent?
Thus I keep asking, how can it be that you're so fearful of lowering prices? How can it be that you can't make a good profit for less? Nivea's price chart seems rediculously high in my opinion. And her prices seem to be arbitrarily picked based on level. While that might work for many just waving my hand and saying "oh, that's worth about ..." doesn't work for me.
Anyway, I'm glad we've now also heard something from the other side of the player fence (and thank you for your compliment Jiinxxx ). Some player might be willing/able to pay high prices to make them feel special, others either don't have the money because they're new or more focused on other things or they're simply unwilling to pay high prices for clothes. Tailors can provide for either/both groups of players and none of it makes any of us bad people.
It will only affect your enjoyment of the game if you let it.
Oh, and Rarlossk... seems you have a groupie. 
- A. Kimusume
Well, the biggest problem in this game is that its VERY easy to make money, by either doing destroy or deliver missions, even with the lowered payouts.
Any noob, can easily make 20k for a DX2 pistol that wont be able to use it for several skill blocks. But they got around that by adding weapon certifications. You are artificially creating certifications by making easily and cheaply made clothing cost someone out the nose. So even by charging 10-15k for your high end clothes your not really stopping a noob from wearing your oh so special stuff. (that for some reason in your eyes doesnt deserve to wear)
To me the only accomplishments that should really mean anything to people should be: making master in an elite field, finally buying that large house on the hill, starting your PA, and setting down that hard earned PA Hall, and of course making as many friends as you can along the way.
My idea of an accomplishment isnt being the first to break a million credits in my bank. And I dont buy the excuse that I'm goin to run anyone out of business with my prices. At the prices I charge, I am doing quite well for myself, I dont have anywhere near a million credits, but that isnt a very good measuring stick anyways. If you cant stay profitable with charging MUCH less than you are, then its obviously you who have the business problems.
In my opinion, if someone can make enough money to pay the prices I ask for something, then they deserve it just as much as any one else whether theyre a noob or Master Bounty Hunter.
Oh and by the way it only costs a Master WS, about 500 credits worth of material to make that DX2. Which is why I still dont have one, even though Ive had the cert for it for a month. My 3k credit FWG5 is just fine.
Ayan, people don't "feel" you making accusations, they have read your posts. Let's try to use more neutral language. We are not "fearful" of lower prices. I'm not afraid of you, you sound like a very nice person (except possibly when you are telling off naughty tailors). What are you going to do, hug me to death?
We have different ideas about what things are worth. You judge the worth of something you make by the cost to you of making it, including the free hides your friends give you.
Some of us judge the cost by what we think a credit is worth, based on the world around us in SWG. Someone could sell a flight suit for 1500 credits, for example. In fact, I know a tailor who does. To me (and i know not to you), 1500 credits = 500 units of metal, one and a half missions, one sixth of a decent FWG5, or something like 1/40 of a piece of armour. I think a flightsuit is worth more - I think it's worth about 1500 units of metal, half a decent FWG5 etc. So that's what I sell it at.
It seems fair to me. Maybe not to you. Probably not to plenty of other talors who think it is worth *more* than that, and they may be right. It certainly seems fair to my customers, who insist on tipping me more than I charge on a regular basis.
I'm not trying to make you change your prices. I'm trying to explain to you what you repeatedly come on thsi board claiming you don't understand.
Something that helps me when I start to think that maybe my prices are too high is to think of an Imperial credit as equal to one American penny.
If you can complete four 900 credit missions in an hour, you're making about $36 an hour on that scale, not a bad wage, but close enough to average for some rough comparisons.
That means my top-of-the-line designer original isabout $150. That doesn't strike me as outrageous to ask of somebody making $36 an hour.
(It also means that architects are charging about $600 for a medium house, but that's their issue to resolve).
Real world comparisons are sometimes fatally flawed when applied to the virtual realm, but this one is a useful rule of thumb for my purposes.
I'm curious to those who advocate rock bottom prices for Master Tailor items with one question. If there was 1 item on the bazzar for sale for 3k, would you put the same item up there for sale for 2950, or would you put it up for sale for 500 credits. Now you might say to yourself, you want to provide for the folks who don't have many credits, and I've seen this defense laid out by a few, but who doesn't have a ton of credits? Everyone is rich, except for those who are lazy and don't even try. So the only reason for setting the price at 500 credits would be to bring down the market for the item to a significant lower price imo. If 2950 was you answer, congratulations, you probably took some economics classes in hs and college and understand the basics of healthy business competition.
One thing the lower price advocates are really slipping up on is you are only figuring in cost of resources, what about your time? Time to reach Master, time to gather the resources, time to actually craft it, time to think up prices, time to put together advertisments, time to get to Merchant skills, time to stock your vendor. This is a VARIABLE as in it changes. I change it many times myself, somedays I'm in a good mood and feel like crafting, sometimes those days I'll hand out things to free. Other days I don't feel like crafting, and if someone wants a specific item, they'll pay a premium or go elsewhere.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, 2k for a Master Tailor item? Don't you value the time you've spent to get there and maintain that level of crafting as more than 2k? You aren't helping people who are deprived of money, becuase thanks to game mechanics, EVERYONE has money. If that's the case, and others sell the same item for 10k, why not price it at 9.5 k. That's healthy competition in economics. 2k is changing the entire mindset of the customer base.
It is a free market system of course, and although I strongly disagree with the low prices, and feel folks are really shooting them selves in the foot by not valueing their time more than they are, it has to be lived with. I've created my own responses to those who say they can get it for 2k, encouraging them to pick me up extras cause I can't and won't sell something that cheap.
Anyways, just my 2 cents. I'd encorage those who charge for Master Tailor items, what most people charge for Decorated Belts, to look at a broader equation. Add in the variables of time, level of your crafting skill, and the skills you are giving up by maintaing such a high level of crafting and vendors. It may change your outlook, or it may stay the same, but I feel you aren't giving yourself enough credit for the work you have and continue to put in. Either way, good luck to all.
--Jewel
Yukon
Thats part of the problem, your clothing is neither designer or original. There is nothing for you to differentiate yourself from another master tailor except for your prices, policies, and attitude.
Any master tailor can make exactly what you make.
I would like to see rare quest based schematics for all crafters, or maybe a way to invent something new, even if it was just a flexform shirt with a new stripe pattern or something.
I understand that it is a two way street. I shy away from saying that undercutters are willfully trying to destroy the economy. In the end I think both sides will have to walk away from this agreeing to disagree, and the Great Invisible Hand will decide who is Right, and hwo is Wrong.
As for why I am fearful of lowering my prices? (And that's an odd way to put it, I might add...
) For one thing, I like making money. I think one of the underlying assumptions of economics is that everyone will try to maximize their own profits. If a Doctor's Dress could be sold for 60K, I'd be the first in line to it, but they just can't. I've seen items sell for as high as 18K, so that seems to be the limit people are willing to pay. Of course, this was is the early days where there were very few Master Tailors. I always assumed that prices would go down as more people got into the business, but that they would level off because Tailors wanted to make money, even if they would never be as rich as Weapon and Armorsmiths.You make a level of profit that is acceptable to you, but my level of profit is "as much as I can get someone to pay".
Ayane, as a non-tailor but someone that reads around all the profession forums for interest and to keep up to date, as well as someone that travels all over the place a lot more freely than most tailors, especially master tailors, the biggest problem I have with any master level craftsperson cutting prices down to the levels some are is that is grossly unfair to new entrants. How is a new tailor supposed to even start playing these days if prices are already down to just a few k for master level? THE BEST items a tailor can make being sold for less than 30 mins work by a one-day-old marksman character (I tested it on an alt server - it took me 28 minutes to make 5k with a character less than 6 hours old). Money is still ridiculously easy to make. Heck, I made 30k odd last night just on Corellia doing a few hunting missions while wandering around getting dna, and dna sample kills don't even count for hunting! That was without trying, using novice carbineer skills. Master and near master combat classes can make many times that amount in the same time, don't let then kid you otherwise.
Yes, you are free to charge what you want, but please realise that an established tailor charging 2500 for a master level item is basically preventing any new player from entering the market, potentially ruining the entire game for them. Melodramatic? Not especially. As a CH/BE I have seen fairly experienced players quitting because they can't match what master levels are doing selling creatures, even though they started playing just to do that. What chance does a new player that bought the game a few days ago have to build up any kind of client base to start the slow process of making master. Can you even imagine how hard it will be for them to save up for a factory??
Master level items from any profession should be expensive, or whats the point. I have seen all the 'I'm just playing to have fun, not make money' arguements and they are typically only superficially thought through. You can't claim to be doing people a favour and just being nice by charging low prices at the same time you are using established market position to exclude new entrants, which is exactly what is happening. If you are just trying to be nice, and I expect most are, then please try to look at it from the point of view of a brand new player that starts getting into playing, sees they cannot possibly match prices and gives up tailoring, maybe even the game?
I can be pretty harsh in game and out to idiots and griefers, but to know I hadruined the game for even one genuine, decent player would ruin the game for me as well.
Donnah
I wasnt being dismissive of those points, thats exactly what I was trying to put forward, was that they are very important.
But I would have to agree with you about the, color/item matching skill being different. But also with that being said, you dont have the ability to make something that I dont. And without unique or atleast rare item schematics there will be little to differentiate yourself, besides price, policy and attitude, which ARE very important, but not ALL important.
The funny thing about the world of fashion is that once you unveil a designer original, any 15-year-old home ec student with a sewing machine can make a knock-off. If it's a talented student, you'd be hard-pressed to tell it from the original.
It is largely a world of attitude, name recognition, and an airy disregard of the cold hard fact that it's just clothes, and the multi-million dollar budgets and glitter and light shows are all fluff.
But.... it reminds me of a story. This story is probably not true, but it is nonetheless instructional:
Henry Ford was having a problem with a steam boiler on his new-fangled assembly line, and he contracted a specialist to come in and fix the problem. The man stood and looked at the boiler for a time, then took out a piece of chalk and drew an 'X' on the side. He then took out a hammer and gave the boiler a solid whack.
The boiler was turned on, and worked splendidly. Mr. Ford thanked the specialist, who said he would send a bill. When the bill arrived, it was a simple statement for $1000. Outrageous! Ford wrote the man back, demanding a detailed and itemized account of how he could justify charging such an outlandish fee for the simple act of hitting a boiler with a hammer.
The man's statement came back the next day. It read;
- Hitting boiler with hammer: $1.00
- Knowing where to put the 'X': $999.00
Ford paid the bill.