Tailor Archive

Thread: Usage XP for Tailors?

p4Samwise
Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:39 pm
#1

Hi folks,


I'm a stranger to this here board and haven't done the Tailor profession (yet) but, inspired by the mind-numbing grind to Weaponsmith, I've started drafting a proposal for a Usage Experience system that would provide an alternative to grinding.


You may have already seen this doc on the Core Systems forum, but I just now added a section on how tailors might be able to benefit from this thing:




and I'd very much appreciate it if some folks who have done the tailor grind and/or operate successful tailor shops could provide some feedback on how good my numbers sound. In particular, how realistic do my numbers sound on the UXP advancement example - would an advancing tailor realistically be able to find 144 people to clothe completely in order to make it to master? Would that be too easy? Just about right?


(It's not quite as simple as just clothing 144 people, sincethere's also a requirement that the clothes be worn over time... it's all explained in that monster of a document if you have the patience to wade through it.)


Thank you very much in advance for any feedback you can provide.



"Prettiest shim on Bria!" - Sev
Certified "cool" by the Darth Vader of Bria

Blue glowie.
p4Samwise
Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:01 pm
#2

(nudge)


Nothing?



"Prettiest shim on Bria!" - Sev
Certified "cool" by the Darth Vader of Bria

Blue glowie.
Milarella
Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:59 pm
#3

I skimmed through it, and you seem to be saying that the game doesn't have usage exp but needs it. That is incorrect; usage exp is already in the game. In fact, if your items are popular enough, you can watch your exp bar move throughout the play session. It's not nearly as fast as grinding, but it is there. For people like me, who choose the long road to master, it's actually rather helpful.


If you're suggesting we get more usage exp than we currently do, keep in mind that, knowing the devs, they will probably take away some of the exp that we get from creating an item if they add more usage exp.


Milarella
Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:04 pm
#4

I've been master for about a month now. There was a period of time after publish 5 that I wasn't seeing any usage exp, but it might have been just a display bug, I'm not really sure because it came back again maybe a week or two later. All the way up to master I was getting usage exp.


As for your other question about whether it's too slow without grinding, well, I can't claim to speak for the majority, but I would have to say it's just right. I felt that leveling was far, far too slow in Dark Age of Camelot, for example. I thought that, the one time I decided to try a macro, it went way too fast and I didn't have that feeling of accomplishment after. That's just me, though
p4Samwise
Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:18 pm
#5






Milarella wrote:

I've been master for about a month now. There was a period of time after publish 5 that I wasn't seeing any usage exp, but it might have been just a display bug, I'm not really sure because it came back again maybe a week or two later. All the way up to master I was getting usage exp.


As for your other question about whether it's too slow without grinding, well, I can't claim to speak for the majority, but I would have to say it's just right. I felt that leveling was far, far too slow in Dark Age of Camelot, for example. I thought that, the one time I decided to try a macro, it went way too fast and I didn't have that feeling of accomplishment after. That's just me, though






That's very useful information to have. So you were able to make a bunch of clothes and actually sell them, all the way up to master? I wasn't quite sure what the demand was like for tailoring, given that clothes don't really wear out and a lot of people seem to go around in the same outfit all the time.



"Prettiest shim on Bria!" - Sev
Certified "cool" by the Darth Vader of Bria

Blue glowie.
donnah42
Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:19 pm
#6

Tailoring is slow to the point of painful without any grinding. I know, I did it. It took me about four months. Maybe if grinding was near impossible it wouldn't have been that bad, but it was always heartbreaking to me having Master Tailors coming up to me saying "I picked up tailor last week, how do I [insert type of very basic tailoring skill]?" Or having customers assume I was a new tailor and didn't know what I was doing because I didn't have the schem they wanted yet.

It was just extremely frustrating. My combat friends, even the ones that didn't play as much, seemed to level so quickly, and there I was, trying to fill my boxes one sale at a time...



Kara Vasa
----------------
Radiant Master Tailor
Mayor of Barsoom, Rori
p4Samwise
Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:30 pm
#7

One of the design goals for my UXP system is to make leveling in a crafting profession take about as much time investment as leveling in a combat profession at the same level (e.g. mastering Weaponsmith should require about as much time as mastering Rifleman, without any deliberate grinding). So if you find that your combat friends were surpassing you quickly, that indicates some more XP is needed.


Given the UXP guidelines I presented in that doc (e.g. sell 36 items of clothing to people who like them and wear them constantly in order to get a first-tier skill box), do you think the leveling process would have been more reasonable? Would it have been too fast? As a rough estimate, how much "usage" of your items by other players do you think should lead to mastering the tailor profession?



"Prettiest shim on Bria!" - Sev
Certified "cool" by the Darth Vader of Bria

Blue glowie.
p4Samwise
Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:45 am
#8






Milarella wrote:

I skimmed through it, and you seem to be saying that the game doesn't have usage exp but needs it. That is incorrect; usage exp is already in the game. In fact, if your items are popular enough, you can watch your exp bar move throughout the play session. It's not nearly as fast as grinding, but it is there. For people like me, who choose the long road to master, it's actually rather helpful.


If you're suggesting we get more usage exp than we currently do, keep in mind that, knowing the devs, they will probably take away some of the exp that we get from creating an item if they add more usage exp.







I know for a fact that I'm not getting usage XPfor weapons. It worked while I was going up the artisan tree (though it was really ridiculously minor, something like 10% of the CXP, which I could have gotten much more easily through practice mode), but as far as I can tell it's gone the way of the dodo.


When do you get UXP as a tailor? Is it in one chunk when someone puts on an article of clothing? Have you tested this out recently? How big is the UXP award? (10% of the CXP for the item?)




"Prettiest shim on Bria!" - Sev
Certified "cool" by the Darth Vader of Bria

Blue glowie.
p4Samwise
Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:55 am
#9






Milarella wrote:

If you're suggesting we get more usage exp than we currently do, keep in mind that, knowing the devs, they will probably take away some of the exp that we get from creating an item if they add more usage exp.





Actually, the question I should have asked: do you think that the advancement rate for tailors is currently reasonable if you don't grind? Are people able to master tailor within a decent time frame without grinding?




"Prettiest shim on Bria!" - Sev
Certified "cool" by the Darth Vader of Bria

Blue glowie.
Ackdel
Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:59 am
#10

The main problem with UXP is that to sell an artisan (or elite artisan) item with regularity, you really need to be a master. For tailor, most customers want clothes in the colors available to masters, weaponsmiths don't sell many low-end guns, etc. So by the time you could get a nice stream of UXP rolling in, you would be a master and no longer need it.




Crowne Morril
12pt Droid Engineer - 14pt Artisan (Retired)
Lorde Morril - "He'll zerg your Cloudsong"
Kwee
Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:13 am
#11

I consider myself a casual player (can't play unless my little guys are asleep which doesn't leave much time), and I have one and a half boxes left before Master Tailor. I've been at it since launch, sewing anywhere from two to seven days a week. Keeping a vendor stocked in the 80-150 item range... I've done a little grinding to finish a box off the last several boxes. I think I must just be the slowest Tailor in the world though. I take ages to pick the color I want for each item I would definitely welcome more usage based exp. Those that are going to grind won't be affected by it, and those of us trying to progress naturally would be rewarded.




Kwee Glitterwing of Starsider
Ex Image Designer Correspondent ~ Elder Tailor
& Kwee-kwee ~ Master Image Designer
Gamer Girl Columnist ~ swg.warcry.com
Ivory & Topaz of TC ~ Elder Dancers, IDs, Musicians

NJ62
Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:22 am
#12

The only downside to usage xp, is that tailors may give away items at low levels, thereby borking the economy, just to get the uxp. But in theory this should reward those who sell items, which will do a lot to prevent carpal tunnel in the general population.



n'Jessi
former correspondent, former player

All your hawtpants are belong to me.
www.swgtailor.com
PLEASE REGISTER FOR THE SWGTAILOR OFFSITE FORUM (IMAGE DESIGNERS WELCOME TOO)

Kwee
Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:04 am
#13


Good point n'Jessi, but this late in the game, how easy would it be for them to give away low items? A couple months into the game I would try to give away free Casual tree items to entertainers in cantinas to be nice, and none of them would want any lol. Of course they were mostly wearing exotic leotards/flesh wraps


Edit: typo

Message Edited by Kwee on 03-06-2004 11:11 AM




Kwee Glitterwing of Starsider
Ex Image Designer Correspondent ~ Elder Tailor
& Kwee-kwee ~ Master Image Designer
Gamer Girl Columnist ~ swg.warcry.com
Ivory & Topaz of TC ~ Elder Dancers, IDs, Musicians

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