Tailor Archive

It occurred to me the other day how long it'd been since I'd had to deal with my weaponsmith, any armorsmith, any droid engineer - in other words, any artisan other than surveyers.

Yeah, my droid degrades every time it gets incapacitated. Which hasn't happened since I bought my new, better-armored droid, so at this rate, I won't need another one until some time next year.

Yeah, my gun degrades every time I fire a special with a powerup on. On the other hand, I don't shoot it all day every day. At my present rate of decay, I'll need another one in a couple of months. Except that I have two. So we're talking early spring.

Yeah, my armor degrades. It degrades even more slowly than the gun. And increasingly, I don't even bother to wear it. Now that I have the Combat spam window open, I can see that it really would be necessary to wear a complete set to make a big difference, and I don't see how anybody can afford that kind of encumbrance penalty. I know I can't! So unless I get a wild hair and decide to try a different style of armor, I figure I'll need more armor ... well, probably never.

Now, do you think they're going to give tailors item decay that goes any faster than weapon, armor, droid, or pet decay? I think people would scream bloody murder, just like they have when those items decayed faster.

No, the "salvation" of tailors is going to be linked to two things: lots of schematics, lots of colors, and a steady stream of new people. All of which we've got, more or less. Sure we'd love more schematics - who wouldn't?

Given a choice between more schematics and item decay, it occurred to me today that I'd probably rather have more schematics, because it's more likely to result in increased sales.

(And besides, what a role-playing event! We could do a showing of the New Spring Styles at the local theaters.)

Brad, i would appreciate being treated on a equal basis as the armor/weapon smtihs. Decay would mean some sales, as opposed to clothes that last forever.

Do a lot of PvP ? maybe that would make the decay increase on your armor/droid. As far as not knowing how people handle the full set of armour and its encumbrance...go see a Master Doc. Eat some good food.

Its also not the case that Tailors have to give up more schematics/more colours to have decay, they don't seem to be mutually exclusive. I prefer all the above.

Clothing Decay is Equitable. If it's of such little impact as you say, it harms no one, and lets me have a little fun experimenting trying to get that 100% clothing

I need to say that we don't have a steady stream of new folks and everyday the number of folks that need clothing declines. Because we have a server cap on the number of folks that are on the server, eventually the server will be full with only a few folks being able to be added to the server. New servers will be added and those will get most of the new folks. This is not a bad thing, but it does add to the problem we tailors will have...eventually. Down the road there will be few new folks, a large number of tailors and a finite number of folks that need clothing...if we have no decay.

Decay will help the problem...some. We will also need to have a steady stream of new items added to our schematics and new color schemes to keep the business fresh. Unlike other artisans, tailoring needs to have some way for tailors to be original and inventive. Guns are guns, houses are houses...but...clothing needs to have some unique quality...or tailors need to be given a way to be unique. If I walk into K-Mart and buy a shirt, I don't have a problem seeing myself walking toward me on the street. But if I go into an exclusive shop and buy a shirt...I'd really expect to go out and not see that same piece of clothing on the woman sitting next to me in the resturant...thus I think one of the answers for tailors is for them to have the ability to make some unique things that are their own to make. Not sure how that would be implemented and if it ever was...I'd figure it would be a long way down the road. But to help us now...and consequently help the player economy that makes SWG so attractive, I think decay is a must have thing.

I believe also, for decay to work, it has to be implemented in a smart way. It needs to be reasonable. If someone comes into my shop and buys a formal gown, then goes out and wears it one time...I'd really not want to hear that it decayed on them in a week while it stood in a corner of their bedroom. Rather that dress may fade over a period of time...or the cloth might tatter so that they won't want to wear it 2 months later. I'd also rather see a LONG decay period. Even if it was 3 months from the date the person bought the item...I'd still eventually see them again for another pair of pants. The only thing that worries me is...are items we make going to decay so quickly that they will decay while sitting on a vendor?

These are the things that I think about when considering decay. Even with all the problems we may have regarding decay...I still believe its one of the things that will help keep tailors tailoring. Already we are are seening master tailors surrendering their skill. Its sad.

Bridget
Wanderhome

I'm inclined to agree that decay (as currently implemented for other items) wouldn't help much.

But let's not forget that there *is* decay, of a sorts. Clothing decays when:

- Someone's out in the field and runs out of inventory space. That spare outfit just isn't as important as another stack of something saleable. Clothes are destroyed.

- Someone posts their old outfit for sale on the bazaar. The item sits for 7 days and never gets sold. This person, being unfamiliar with the bazaar, doesn't realize that in another 72 hours their stuff is gone forever. Clothes rot away into oblivion.

- Someone buys a whole wardrobe for their Dancer. Then their friend starts playing on another server. To say hi, they create a Brawler... and find out they love it. Dancer sits in their full closet with clothes in limbo. Clothes leave economy.

If they were to implement decay on clothes, I think they should do it this way: items have a chance to decay when they change hands (except the first time, of course). That way, they remain the same durability as long as the same person owns them, and so people don't feel heartbroken when their favorite Intricate Dress that they love to wear when hunting falls apart. But they can only be traded a finite number of times before they're gone. They leave the economy, but with less "emotional" impact on a player. (I would think that the decay jump would be pretty large, like 200 points, and the chance would increase from say 25% to 75% with successive trades.) Of course, I think all decay should work this way, if it's just an economic balance and not a realism thing. But anyway.

For realism's sake, I wish that clothes decayed, and that certain activities... like running long distances or hunting... caused them to decay faster. And that some clothes (say, that Intricate Dress mentioned above) decayed faster than others (like Reinforced whatever) during those activities. Around town, they might all have the same low rate, but if you're going to be hard on your clothes, you should wear clothes that can take it.

I'd love to have the gun that lasts for months! I have a FWG5 that's never had a power-up even, and it was down to 387 from 985 in less than 3 weeks. And I'm an Artisan, not a gun bunny!

I think clothing decay would be simple. 1pt/6hr starting from the moment it's first equipped. Rate upped to pt/2hr while equipped. When you're not in-game, it counts as not equipped.

That would do it.

Well in real life clothes don't decay that fast either. I agree that it would not change a lot, but it would change some, which would be well better than nothing.

On the other hand it seems to me that lots of people stop playing before their clothes would decay and that most customers are new players hehe.

I'm not really sure about this -- simply because a great portion of my business comes from folks who like to update their clothes on a very regular basis (sometimes as frequently as every two or three days). They love the clothes I can make for them, love the huge variety of colours... and I'm not convinced that, were decay implemented at, say, a weapon's rate, they'd be purchasing more clothes. In fact, I'm thinking my business would suffer -- who wants more than one set of clothes if they're all going to decay pretty soon anyhow?

I'm in the same boat as Darcy, with the same sort of customers. And Darcy also raises a good point that illustrates how important the *method* of decay used is. I have one customer who owns dozens of items I've made for her. If the rule was something like "All clothing decays by x amount every day, whether worn or not," it'd be creating major hassles for customers like her just to keep her closet full of clothes intact!

Now, granted, I doubt they'd do this - more likely would be some sort of usage-based decay, which would mean each person would more or less face the same decay rate - though with some it'd be spread over multiple outfits.

On balance, I think clothing decay of some sort is desirable. But I *don't* think it's some sort of magic bullet that will end the woes of all tailors everywhere. If you're a tailor who's doing mediocre business today, and clothing decay was instituted tomorrow, I don't think your business is gonna suddenly boom just because of it.

But the real point is that, for me, anyhow, the "I only need one set of clothes, ever" customer is a pretty small portion of my customer base.

The clotheshorse customers are going to run out of closet space, and probably sooner than later.

Decay isn't a panacea, but it's a necessary first step -- not just for tailors but for bio-engineers and combatants who harvest skill enhancers. Whether the decay rate is two weeks or two years is largely immaterial, as long as every item of clothing that enters the game eventually leaves it. From that basis we can build a meaningful experimentation system and be assured of enough turnover to make it worthwhile.

Another thing I think people tend to underestimate is "player churn." People leave and enter fee-based services like SWG all the time. (And this isn't a "SWG is so horribly broken, people are leaving in droves! It's the worst game in gaming history! Fix it, evil devs!" comment, btw.) A portion of the "lack of decay means the death of all tailors!" worry seems premised on a static population. But in reality, there are lots of characters leaving the game (and I suppose not all of them take their clothes with them, but I bet the vast majority do), and people entering to take their place, with 250 credits and some newbie clothes.

Again, not arguing with the essential point, that decay would be A Good Thing, and the devs should implement it, yada yada yada.... It's just that we shouldn't expect to see huge, instantly-perceivable, changes from it.

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BradBradley wrote:

It occurred to me the other day how long it'd been since I'd had to deal with my weaponsmith, any armorsmith, any droid engineer - in other words, any artisan other than surveyers.

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I'm not really a warrior, I didn't build this character that way, but I do have some marksman skill (carbine 4, ranged 3) and I do enjoy a good hunt and it provides materials I need. And when I travel between harvesters or between the shop and the city I usually leave a trail of dead gubbers and durnis in my wake. Even with this fairly casual, light to medium usage, I sem to burn through a gun every 2-3 weeks. I actually have a "special" backpack with like 4 brand new guns in there, never been used, cause I don't want to be without a gun when I absolutely need one, lol, and whenever I see a new one I just "gotta have" I buy it and throw it in that backpack (that's how I ended up with 4 spares, and if I see another for a good price, I'll probably chuck it in there too, lol).

Armor seems to wear out much more slowly for me, only replaced armor once since I've started playing. But even so, I also do have 2 new sets of armor also in a backpack waiting to be used

I'm not sure how typical I am in that regard, but for me, yea, absolutey the wear and tear my weapons and armor takes has affected my buying behavior. I buy spares, I do burn through them, and I find myself constantly shopping for the "next gun" because I know it's going to wear out. Now on the other hand furniture... I just bought some once, and forgot about it. Have not shopped for it since, never check the bazars or stores for it, and why should I? I'm happy with what I have now, and it's always gonna be there. I think clothes are much the same.

Personally, on the decay front, I'd prefer a long delay, but have it decay much faster when in combat. Armor decays when it gets shot (understandably), but armor is DESIGNED to be shot. Clothing is not Thusly it would make logical sense for clothing to last quite a while if it was only being worn, say while dancing, but much quicker when doing something that would damage it... say being shot, stabbed, clawed etc.

Just my two centicredits

"Whether the decay rate is two weeks or two years is largely immaterial, as long as every item of clothing that enters the game eventually leaves it."

Well, currently, probably at least 80% of the clothing that enters the game eventually leaves it, by the mechanisms I listed above. If the decay rate is largely immaterial, then the decay mechanisms already in existence should be adequate. If they're not, that suggests there is a more "optimal" decay rate.