Swordsman Archive
Thread: Bleeds Discussion
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StGabriel
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:00 pm
#1
So . . . bleeds.
Obviously they are less powerful in their current form and that hurts Swordsmen rather a lot as bleeds were one of our strong advantages. If possible I'd like to gather feedback in one thread.
A couple points first:
1) I've already pushed the dev's on the matter that Swordsman are losing a lot of overall damage damage and this problem was acknowledged. Actually I've gotten some really promising feedback. I believe the intent is that overall damage remains roughly the same but that damage must be applied more actively. In other words: tactics like bleed and run should be discouraged while damage output from actively attacking remains high. Bleed is being made more of a secondary damage item, an effect like stun or dizzy, and not a primary source of damage -- but hopefully other damage sources will increase to make up for this.
2) The issue with hitting random pools was something that I already brought up. It was acknowledged and should be changed. Apparently that simply didn't make it to the initial push of the patch.
Basically, further changes are coming. Now maybe they should have held off on changes until we got the whole package. Unfortunately that's not really an option now, so no use crying over spilt milk. What we can focus on for now is the current implementation of bleed. Are there other problems specifically with this implementationi? What would be good solutions for making up for this damage loss?
Obviously they are less powerful in their current form and that hurts Swordsmen rather a lot as bleeds were one of our strong advantages. If possible I'd like to gather feedback in one thread.
A couple points first:
1) I've already pushed the dev's on the matter that Swordsman are losing a lot of overall damage damage and this problem was acknowledged. Actually I've gotten some really promising feedback. I believe the intent is that overall damage remains roughly the same but that damage must be applied more actively. In other words: tactics like bleed and run should be discouraged while damage output from actively attacking remains high. Bleed is being made more of a secondary damage item, an effect like stun or dizzy, and not a primary source of damage -- but hopefully other damage sources will increase to make up for this.
2) The issue with hitting random pools was something that I already brought up. It was acknowledged and should be changed. Apparently that simply didn't make it to the initial push of the patch.
Basically, further changes are coming. Now maybe they should have held off on changes until we got the whole package. Unfortunately that's not really an option now, so no use crying over spilt milk. What we can focus on for now is the current implementation of bleed. Are there other problems specifically with this implementationi? What would be good solutions for making up for this damage loss?
ChryssSR
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:15 pm
#2
I doubt this would happen because it would mean a major upgrade in the DPS of the bleeds, but how about decreasing the time between ticks? I would even be willing for a slight decrease in the damage done if they would shorten the time between ticks on the bleeds. At least this way we would gain some benefit earlier than how it is working at the moment.
Erryk
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:17 pm
#3
I would be satisfied if they could show us substantial evidence that the new bleed system is necessary for some HAM changes in the upcoming combat rebalance.
The biggest thing that angers me is the fact that combat medics can now officially do better mind DOT damage than us.
and the random pool bleed thing DEFINITELY needs to be fixed.
Obi007
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:18 pm
#4
The fact is this hurts swordsmen more than any other profession. Our weapons are pretty high ham cost and we need to wear armor to stay toe to toe. So the main way a swordsmen would take out a creature was to put bleeds on him (doing just two specials) and then soak up damage until you do a head hit (3 specials total). We can no longer do that now and there is no way we can spam specials to take out a creature because we need armor with our poor defense. Add to the fact that our best specials are the least often randomly hit HAM bar and we're well and truely stuffed, even if I do 4 or 5 head hits i'll still end up killing a creature through health or action bar.
You really need to make it clear to the devs how much this bleed nerf has hurt swordsmen I would think its hurt us more than any other profession and therefore they really need to make it up to us and before the combat adjustment.
StGabriel
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:21 pm
#5
By the way, the reason to channel into one thread is so that I can later point to the thread and ask a dev to look at it -- if good ideas and discussion come out of it.
I'm not trying to dominate discussion or control of the issue.
Say what you will.
I'm not trying to dominate discussion or control of the issue.
Say what you will.
shutout
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:23 pm
#6
we can't bleed and run. commandos can't burn and run. but combat medics can disease/poison and run. yeah, that's fair. and we can't even bleed multiple targets at once. commandos can burn mulitple targets, but they have to be within 16m of you. this is just wrong. combat medics can take out a whole army of people in pvp, yet they nerf other classes because they say we can solo things too easy.
ChryssSR
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:24 pm
#7
Maybe get them to back off a little bit on the damage reduction. I can understand why they felt the bleed/kite tactic needed to be addressed, but reducing the damage all the way down to 20% is pretty steep.
Henzo-Kauri
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:24 pm
#8
The bleed is not to a random pool, its the intial damage,the mind bleeds still drain mind but its pretty pathetic. But with bleeds only doing 20-40 damage or so a tick i think they should re-impliment incap from bleeds.
killabyte
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:27 pm
#9
As a master heavy swordsman, I am near useless in pvp. Using a 700dmg power hammer, i finally got a bleed of 250 on my opponent, as i watched it do a few ticks, he took all of 30 mind damage....
With 80% kinetic resists from composite armor, I wonder if swordsman is now completely useless? Might as well go fencer/pistoleer or grab rifleman like everyone else.
This is just my experience, but have we been crippled?
-Iyepo
Obi007
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:30 pm
#10
Mind bleeds were the thing that made swordsmen special. We had the best mind bleeds in the game, if devs feel its important to remove them (which is almost what they've done) Then we need something else to make us special.
antares_Kauri
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:38 pm
#11
This affects many professions in the same manner it affects swordsmen. The exception being that the swordsmen mind bleeds are more valuable than a pikeman's action bleeds, for example, and therefore swordsman has lost a lot more in value than other professions.
antares
master pikeman
antares
master pikeman
AriasImmortal
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:47 pm
#12
Give swordsman more speed mods in order to up the damage output, thats all i can think of. Because with 80% kinetic comp, even the fast/high damaging scythes won't be useful, we will have to rely on PHs.
cheechcheech
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:49 pm
#13
Henzo-Kauri wrote:
The bleed is not to a random pool, its the intial damage,the mind bleeds still drain mind but its pretty pathetic. But with bleeds only doing 20-40 damage or so a tick i think they should re-impliment incap from bleeds.
Hell no. CM already destroy everyone in PvP. This would just make them uber.
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