Swordsman Archive

Hiya all,

as the moment where i will finally be ablegiving yousome more info about where our journey will be taking us approaches (if things go well, probably next week), i want to use this thread as a kickoff for a new set of discussions i have planned together with an FAQ, which becomes more and more a necessity, as our community definitely seems to have grown (whether because of holo's or various other reasons). In short: the next 2-3 months seem to become rather interesting and we will most probably see quite a bit of things happening.

For now i would like to go back to the basics though and see what your opinions are about the following:

As most of you probably already know through TH's posts, the whole combat system is going to be re-evaluated, with the goal to create a balance between the different professions, while still giving each profession a specific role.

In order to get a feeling about how you guys see our role therefore my question:

What should in your opinion be a swordsman's role compared to other melee professions and in general ?

What do you want to be our strength...our "special something" ? What trade-off can you live with in order to take over that role ? (For example: you want us to be the damage dealers and could live instead with reductions in speed....or you want us to be the fastest wielders out there and therefore maybe not hand out a bit less damage etc......once more: these are pure examples)

Thanks for your feedback and have a nice end of day.

/bow

i personally see melee defenses like this: (or how they SHOULD be)

ranked offense
1. pikeman.. slow weapons, big hits
2. swordsman.. faster weapons, less powerfull hits but not far behind in DPS
3. TKA. very fast hits, alot of defensive bonuses, plus the meditate line
4. fencer primarly defensive profession

ranked defense
1. fencer, all about being a tank
2. TKA, but more about absorbing the damage that they take instead of avoiding it completly
3. swordsman
4. pikeman

In the TKA forums they are going nuts drawing up all kinds of threads to counter the "impending nerfs"

Well... for swordsman (as well as carbineers), I think that they should take +counterattack off of our defense line as our main defensive skill. They should instead give us a defensive mod called +parry, which makes more sense. +counterattack can then be placed as a secondary defensive mod to all professions.

ex.Say you are a masterfencer dueling a TKA. You have mad dodge and you dodge most of the attacks. with the secondary +counterattack mod, you will have a chance of counterattacking when you dodge, block, or parry. So you dodge the tka's attack, and then through a certain algorithm, it calculates your chances of counterattacking after a dodge.

2 mathematical formulas in this... one formula to calculate your chances of succeeding with a dodge, block, or parry. Another formula to calculate your chances of succeeding with a counterattack IF the dodge, block, or parry was successful.

Right now, I like to think of our role as being strong damage dealers but not being able to take hits too well, while being able to take out many enemies at once. Our spin attacks are murder to our surrounding enemies. We don't have too many state changing techniques, which we could use a few. We do mind damage through head hits, which in logic, hitting someone in the head could stun them or dizzy them, even incappacitate someone, so why not give us a stun or dizzy mod for some attacks. Yeah, area hit 3 has a *blind*, which last time i checked didn't work, but thats about all that we have, even though we are good at quick kills onmost mobs, but forstronger mobs, it would be nice if we had some kind of state changing attack.

Other than that, I am completely happy with our profession, excluding the lack of weapon assortments. The cleaver could be greatly upgraded, as well as the introduction to a heavy vibro sword.

---

What should in your opinion be a swordsman's role compared to other melee professions and in general ?

---

Here a

Sorry about that :/

Here are my thoughts on the melees

All four of the melee professionsneed to be good tanks, I would make them rate like this:

#1 Pikeman, medium-lowtoughness butextraordinaryblocking ability
#2 TK, high toughness and medium defense acuity
#3 Fencer, low toughhess buthigh dodge mods
#4 Swordsman, medium toughness and low counterattack

I'd make theoffensive nature of the professions like this:TK, super fast hits with AP0 and AP1,and especially strong against single opponents.Fencer, fast hits with AP0 and AP1 weapons, strong vs. single opponents but also formidible versus multiples.Pikeman,slower AP1 and AP2 weapons,but better thanFencer doing area damage.Swordsman mostly AP2,able to land big hits and powerful area damage.

Ibelieve currently,Swordsman is the melee profession that can do the highest single-hit damage. I'd like to see us keep that distinction.

1) Put something in the Expert Finese box, maybe a condition changing mod, like dizzy, or something.

2) Make HAM usage for the Power Hammer less than what it is, it should not kill your HAMs in the manner that its been, it makes PvP almost unbearable........

3) Make the probability of area dizzy for area attack happen more often...........

I know that real world doesn't account for much here but as far as speed goes here is how I think the speed and damage should work.

1. TKA - Fastest melee overall but least amount in damage/second, with the highest accuracy.

2. Fencer - Comes in close behind TKA in speed and more damage/second than TKA.

3 . Swordsman - Just ahead of pikeman in speed as their weaponsare smaller and lighter than pikemans, but does less damage/second as the weapons are lighter and smaller.

4. Pikeman - Uses the largest melee weapons in the game. Highest damage/second rate but the slowest melee overall, with the least accuracy.

Here is how I think the defenses should work out.

1. TKA - Should have a high dodge/counterattack rate but poor toughness. (The only weapon they wield can't weight more than a 1/4 pound, and doesn't make for a very good defense)

2. Fencer - less dodge/counterattack more toughness. (Bigger weapon better defensive ability)

3. Swordsman - even less dodge/counterattack but the second highest toughness in melee overall.

4. Pikeman - least amount of dodge/counterattack but the highest toughness rating.

I think that makes the melee profession fairly balanced. TKA does a lot of damage quick, doesn't miss very often buy goes down first in a prolonged fight. Pikeman does a ton of damage but ata much slower rate but is prone to miss due to wielding such a large weapon, but will still be standing after everybody else has long since been incapped.

Pikeman -> Crowd Control(Carbinier). Lots of area status/posture changes. #3 on DPS, #3 on toughness/defense.

Swordsman -> Heavy Hitter(Rifleman). Huge damage with good piercing. #1 on DPS through armor piercing being fixed not necessarily speed, #4 on toughness/defense.

Fencer -> Defense Specialist(Pistoleer). Awesome status and range/melee defense. #4 on DPS, #1 on toughness/defense.

Teras Kasi -> Little of each(BH). Fast enough to engage in close quarters and dish out hits as well as take them, decent damage with some armor piercing, moderate defenses. #2 on DPS, #2 on toughness/defense.

Now why.

Pikemen, with a little accuracy boost and -mods taken off weapons, would be great at controlling tight areas. They have the Foot Soldier title, make them able to jump into a situation and make a difference.

Swordsmen are perfect where they are. HUGE damage, but less defenses to compensate. True Warriors know the best defense is an impecible offense.

Fencers. Fencer is a wierd situation. They have the least resisted damage type, but have quite low damage across the spectrum of their weapons. Lack of armor piercing and DPS is made up for with CoB, status and range/melee defenses. The art of Fencing is a finesse sport: patience until the lethal strike can be made.

Teras Kasi are the dominant melee profession right now, why? Not armor piercing, norHAM costs. Huge toughness(+62 for dosh master brawler/TK), decent defense mods, and pure speed make up for those shortcomings. Charging Wampa isn't bad either in a PvP situation.

That said.. let's look at PvP, since PvE is irrelevant after a certain point.

Right now, if you get within 6m of a TKM, you have about 80% mortality rate. If you get within 6m of Slitsu on SS, you have about 95% mortality rate. This should hold true for all melee professions, but for different reasons. TKA have Charging Wampa and 210 accuracy, 'nuff said there. Fencers are impossible to hit, but they won't kill you unless they're smarter than you are.Swordsmen can 2-shot most unbuffed players, making them perfect for lightning raids. Pikemen should be able to hold down a chokepoint, with AE status and posture changes.

As far as changing the speed caps, I could handle Swordsmen being at that 2.5-3second cap. Most of us swing that fast anyhow, using damage sliced PH at master. As long as ALL attacks hit the cap at master, it'll be fine. If I'm slugging out hit3s with my highest damage weaponslower than an artisan punches, I'm gonna be unhappy Also, weapon changes would have to come as well. Pistoleers tossing out Stopping Shot for 1500+ a second wouldn't be acceptable if I were only doing 4k every 3

---

Gorecki wrote:

What do you want to be our strength...our "special something" ? What trade-off can you live with in order to take over that role ?

---

High Offense / Low Defense

swordsman: damage dealer, with both slow and powerfull weapons and fast-good dps 2h swords, good AP capab, 2-3 damage type. Poor defence based mostly on a good counterattack, good area damage attacks, some debuff and control opponent too

pikeman: control opponent-area attack guy, slow high damage weapons (still less damaging than swordsman)or fast very low damage rods (for control), very good area attack with control capability, mid-low defence based on thougness and block

fencer: medium damage, fast - good dps weapon but with low ap, very good defence based on avioid damage with good dodge and melee-ranged defence, poor thoughness, medium area attack moves and poor control capability

tka: low damage, very fast but low damage, very good defence based on damage absorption (mid melee and ranged def and very good thougness), debuff opponents and buff themselves, poor area attack moves, good control capab.

sorry for bad english

I disagree with some of these people about us having low defence. We have the second largest melee weapons, in which master swordsman use to block/perry and counterattack. A swordsman knows how to defend against a hit. He is not a one hitter-quitter; i.e. making powerful attacks but not being able to take a hit because of low defense. All of the melee classes are an art unto themselves, with a fencer and a swordsman being the most closely linked. Therefor all the melee classes should have equal defenses at master, thus balanced.

A masterfully placed unarmed attack can be just as deadly as any masterfully placed polearm attack, against a human target. The difference here is the range at which the attack was launched. If anything, polearms should have the longest reach over all the melee classes. Verses large animals and such(mobs), that is where the difference in damage should show; unarmed being the weakest and polearm and swordsman the highest.

Unarmed specializes in the closest form of melee combat, using your opponents energy against him and striking at opportune moments. This is the basis of all melee combat. Melee weapons like swords and polearms are an extension of your own body. Therefor unarmed combat is the root of all the other melee classes. If you do not know your own body, how can you evermasterfully wield an extension of that same body?

Major differences between classes now that it has been established that they all are arts derived from the same concepts:

Unarmed(TKA): the fastest, shortest range, unable to peirce body armor, alot of attacks used to throw the opponent off balance(knockdown, dizzy), mostly bashing damage, at novice levels the lowest potential damage, at novice level the lowest potential defence. Least player vs. mob damage. Special Note: At closest possible range: the best over all offensive and defensive stats(that is where master unarmed fighters are at home).

Fencer: Second fastest, second shortest range,piercing(light armor only)damage mostly, most attacks launched when opponent is recovering from its last swing(dodge, counterattack). Hey don't yell, ever watched a fencing match? Dodge, counter, repeat, look for opening, strike when it presents itself. Attacks should include bleeding. More potential novice damage than unarmed, less than two-hand Swordsman. More potential novice defence than unarmed, less than two-hand Swordsman. More player vs. mob damage than unarmed.

Swordsman: Third fastest, second longest range under polearms, second heaviest armor piercing damage of the melee classes(most weapons with medium armor piercing though), attacks launched like fencer(dodge, counterattack), good ability to block, mostly slashing damage, head bleeds should also dizzy. Most potential novice damage, secondhighest novice defense. More player vs. mob damage than Fencer.

Pikeman: Could be one of the slowest, but seeing as there are two sides to their weapons I do not know if this should be the case, should depend on the weapon. Longest range. Heaviest armor piercing damage(come on now! Look at the vibro axe or lance. Long reach, plenty of leverage for heavy thrusting attacks! You could stab the end of one of those straight through a rancors head!). Lots of ability to sweep your opponent(knockdown). Very easy to block your opponent. Slashing, bashing or piercing depending on the weapon. Good potential novice damagesecond toswordsman. Best potential novice defence. Highest player vs. mob damage especially for the bladed weapons. Special note for Pikeman: at the closest possible range: lowest defense and offense(getting inside the arc of the weapon is a good strategy for defeating a polearm, the trouble is getting there).

At Master, all melee classes should have an equal number of defensive points! At Master the Polearms and Swordsman should have the highest mob damage!

There! Good and balanced!! Except the range, but come on now its the truth!

One more thingto clarify, sorry!

All melee, at Master, should have equal defensive points: Melee defense, knockdown, dizzy, stun, etc. All Masters should also have equal amounts of counterattack, block and dodge. Who ever heard of any master Swordsman, Fencer, Kung-fu Master or Pikeman only blocking and never counterattacking or dodging? They are used by all classes!

Differences: range, damage types (blunt, slashing, piercing), speed and armor piercing.