Swordsman Archive
Thread: Anyone else feel like asking for an additional move?
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GTOfire
Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:23 am
#1
I did a bit of counting, excluding master brawler (1 extra move for all) the professions get:
Fencer: 17 attacks
Pikeman: 17 attacks
Swordsman: 16 attacks
Teras Kasi Artist: 16 attacks + meditate (definately counts as a move if you've ever been a TKM you'll understand it's use)
Fencer: 4 general moves (lunge1, hit1-3), 2 combo hits, 5 health attacks, 2 dizzy, 2 blind, 2 Area of Effect Hits
Pikeman: 4 general moves, 5 action attacks, 2 stun, 6 Area of Effect hits
Swordsman: 4 general moves, 5 mind attacks, 7 Area of Effect Hits
Teras Kasi Artist, 4 general moves, 2 combo hits, 1 health attack, 1 action attack, 1 mind attack, 1 dizzy, 1 blind, 1 stun, 2 Area of Effect hits, 2 Knockdown moves.
I like most of what I see here, TKA gets a varied all-round bunch of attacks with all the state effects. But what I see is that both swordsman and pikeman pretty much get the opposite of that, swordsman most of all, and we have one move less then the others even!
I somehow feel a little cheated knowing I have only 3 types of moves I can do. What that also means is that I only ever use 4 or 5 different attacks. I could use 7 AE attacks, but why would I, when one is the most powerful? The others are completely redundant. As a TKA, I would use almost every single one of my available moves except the combo hits quite often.
I therefor feel quite justified in asking for Swordsmen to get an additional move, and I sure wouldn't mind seeing our SEVEN area attack moves reduced to 3 or 4 and replaced by others.
My personal division for swordsman: 4 general moves, 5 mind attacks,1 dizzy,1 stun,4 Area of Effect hits,2 Knockdown moves.
If not the replacement of a few AE with dizzy, stun and the KDs, at least give usone extra move. I don't even really care which of the three types it is, but swordsmen have feelings too, and no reason to get fewer moves.
- and lastly, why does AA3 have the same animation as areaattack2?
Alderonn
Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:52 am
#2
a kd would be nice for sure, but at the same time, we are pretty much (-riflemen) the only class that gets the mind and area attacks that are as useful as ours are.
Soulburner69
Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:02 pm
#3
i'm not all in for getting a knock down... i'm thinking something more along the lines of making our hit 3 a definate dizzy, and giving us a stun attack. reason for that is, using both intimidate, and stun, we level the playing field by making it so they cant dodge/block/counter, and do half damage by intimidating them, and then their melee/ranged/ect defenses are weakened a great deal by stunning them which would really help us hit things more often with the hammer, and other things.
like when i use pikeman skills, i have used intimidate 2, and polearm stun, while using a long vibro axe with -54 range mods, i have hit hit practially every time. (the joys of picking up the defense tree in pikeman to get the bonus defenses to augment swordsman's defenses)
DarkBShadow
Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:58 pm
#4
i like your ideas but i do not want to see a kd in swordman. i used to want it but soon realizedthat having a kd in the swordman tree itself would make us hit for way to much damage. and the kd in master brawler should be the only kd we get for it costs us more skill points to get it. but we should get a diffrent variates of attacks.
maybe like a pvp move that knocks of a random piece of armor from a foe and they can not re equip it till after we hit them for the next attack. i beileve that would give us a bit more varity in the class. and give us a way to by pass a person with high blast and kinetic armor on.
Master Swordman Forever ~ Pve wh0r3 
my other sig is a Corovette. 
GTOfire
Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:07 am
#5
goes to show you how long I've been doing this swordsman business. Last time I had a stun attack I used was two months ago and I never bothered to check wat it did hehe. Perhaps I should use my unarmedstun1 or polearmstun1 a few times while going for pikeman and fencer.
I don't mind getting a stun and not a knockdown, I already have one in the form of lunge2 anyway.
sony-is-a-thief
Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 am
#6
how about a blind to agment our lack of defenses? since we do head attacks and the eyes are in the head and all blinding makes sense
twoheadstalkin
Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:05 am
#7
if they took away our two useless area attacks sweep and spin attack and added some thing that just looked cool like area attack 1 which i just do cause it looks kool then yea i'd luv it but hey anything is nice no matter what it is
twoheadstalkin
Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:06 am
#8
GTOfire wrote:
- and lastly, why does AA3 have the same animation as areaattack2?
yea....
JediJacobus
Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:10 am
#9
I am in favor also of a stun, but not a KD, because a KD would totally cheapen swordsman. I learned alot from mastering brawler and felt very pleased with myself for getting tat KD. Also, were to get a KD and even a dizzy to go with that KD, it would just turn us into a carbon copy of every other brawler prof.
Also, in regards to stun and such, WE HIT PEOPLE IN THE HEAD, I think they would be blind, stunned, bleeding, dizzy, and/or even dead 
Eviscerae
Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:34 am
#10
This is kind of off topic, as it's not swordsman specific, but:
I'll take something like an innate improved run speed (shamelessly ripped form EQ).
It gets old when you go on missions with people who stop 100 meters out to start shooting at things while you're still running up. You get to the mob at half health, get off your bike, re-aquire the now 1/4 health target and hit once to kill it. Rinse, repeat.
In PVP it's even worse. I run up to a rebel, he sees my "master heavy swordsman" tag and the power hammer i'm going to beat him with, and he takes off burst running. By this point i'm already burstrunning as i knew he'd do this. At this point i can only hope he comes to some sort of cross fire or dead end of sorts for me to catch up to him.
With ranged attacks, there isn't as pressing a need for run speed. Swordsmen (and all melee for that matter) need the ability to get in and out of a situation very quickly. Ranged professions can simply hit tab to get another target and start attacking it. If that target is 20m away, we need to run up to it before we can attack it.
I know, this has been talked about till everyone was blue in the face, but it's something that would help balance out the target acquisition problem that most melee professions have.
I'll take something like an innate improved run speed (shamelessly ripped form EQ).
It gets old when you go on missions with people who stop 100 meters out to start shooting at things while you're still running up. You get to the mob at half health, get off your bike, re-aquire the now 1/4 health target and hit once to kill it. Rinse, repeat.
In PVP it's even worse. I run up to a rebel, he sees my "master heavy swordsman" tag and the power hammer i'm going to beat him with, and he takes off burst running. By this point i'm already burstrunning as i knew he'd do this. At this point i can only hope he comes to some sort of cross fire or dead end of sorts for me to catch up to him.
With ranged attacks, there isn't as pressing a need for run speed. Swordsmen (and all melee for that matter) need the ability to get in and out of a situation very quickly. Ranged professions can simply hit tab to get another target and start attacking it. If that target is 20m away, we need to run up to it before we can attack it.
I know, this has been talked about till everyone was blue in the face, but it's something that would help balance out the target acquisition problem that most melee professions have.
Makarish
Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:36 am
#11
what i really want is a attack that intimidates and had a good chance if it, then i think i could easily give up master brawler after the nerf.
Edit: after reading the other post above another thing i wouldnt mind seeing borrowed from other fantasy games is a hamstring/snare, that way you can run up and hit a ranged character with a hamstring and they would run for say 1/2 speed for 20-30 seconds. it seems like this cant be that hard to code because there are already scout traps that do exactly the same thing as what im asking for.
Message Edited by Makarish on 03-08-2004 09:41 AM
GTOfire
Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:08 am
#12
snares and the like are Scout/Ranger business, not something we melee folks should want or get. I suppose a brawler might want to use a net against NPCs, but that's not very realistic/SW-ish I reckon.
About Swordsman and carbon copies: Fencer gets blind, dizzy, health hits, Pikeman gets stun and AoE and action hits, Swordsman just gets AoEand mind hits, and TKA gets it all but no bleeds.
Giving swordsman a state effect and a KD won't make them a carbon copy at all. Of TKA, sure, because TKA already has it all. But Fencer has no KD, Pikeman has no dizzy (and no single KD, AE hits are nice, but not when you don't want to agro anything else).
Not to mention two things: Our weapons of choice are pretty much the power hammer or the curved sword, heavy vs samurai style. If you knock something in the head with a huge hammer, you can bet they go down. Sword arts incorporate dozens of ways to bring an opponent to the ground as well, surprising me we couldn't already. Right now I don't need a KD because I'm a Master Brawler. But with the destruction of warcry in battle, KD isn't going to be very useful at all. Dizzyand aposture change (which we already have) will keep someone on the ground as well. Against creatures dizzy wouldn't work to keep them down anyway.
My greatest preference for a single new move goes to dizzy. Second in line is stun, but most of all I'd like the sweeps and spin attacks replaced by both stun and dizzy, a KD would be nice in that case too. I don't think we need to get blind, that's fencer territory.
Soulburner69
Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:55 am
#13
"I don't need a KD because I'm a Master Brawler. But with the destruction of warcry in battle, KD isn't going to be very useful at all. "
actually i dont agree with that. in many cases i dont use both warcry and lunge, unless of course i'm fighting rancors or other big things. the main two skills i use from master brawler are intimidate, and lunge2, the lunge comes in really handy to take things like pickets or moderate level npc's down, because the knock down automaticlay gives you one to two free hits at higher damage (and i use a 5.3 speed damage sliced hammer). and of course we all know the bonuses and attributes of using intimidate. yes the warcry nerf will cripple the people that rely on it as a crutch for everything, i know i will be hindered by the nerf, and agree warcry doesnt need to be nerfed, but my guess would be no matter how much everybody argues it will not be put back to how it was, so we can only ask for changes to it that we could hope will help us, and findof use, instead of the devs giving us something that is completely useless, and unreliable.
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