Swordsman Archive

Thread: Bleeds Discussion

mana333
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:13 pm
#79

maybe if we got weapons that did different damage types besides JUST kinetic and blast, this whole bleed nerf thing wouldnt be so bad! maybe a 2handed sword of ice for cold damage or a powerhammer of fire for heat damage.You get the idea.This would greatly offset our bleed nerf, while keeping in line with the direction that the combat revamp is going. Right now a rifleman canpenetrate our armor with their jawa rifles and still manage to stick a good bleed. WHY? because they havea widearray of weapons capable of doing an assortment of damage types.I'm not entirely positive, but i think the scythe is doing kinetic damage as well. Would it have been to much to ask for?.... to make it a different damage type?


uhm can i get on the FOTM newsletter? Does SOE offer it yet? I too would like to know in advance what proffesions to grind or dumpbefore the next patch.



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Sundracon
Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:34 am
#80

Bleeds are still in my toolbar but thats only becuaseI didn't remember to take them out beforeI logged. I will not be using the bleeds anymore as they stand.


As long as it stays this bad i won't ever use them, even on big mobs. I could deal with the horrible defenses, horrible accuracy and horrible speed sinceI had the best bleeds. Thats gone now. Time to go Rifleman/Doc if it stays like this. At least I'd be able to hit something then.


Possible fix: delay between specials reduced, ham costs fixedand an accuracy increase, as everyone else has said.

The Devs keep saying "Combat balance"but until then swordsman is uber gimped compaired to any other melee class. Return the bleeds to the way they were until then, we can see if itreally is "balanced" and better for the combat system over all then, instead of being gimped for the next 2-3 months.


Bezzler
IngraBergma
Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:13 pm
#81

Let me begin this with a little bit about my background (with Swordsman and Melee in general). Swordsman was the first Elite profession that I mastered, followed by Doctor, so for a time I could do just about anything in PvE, and could hold my own in PvP. As a lot of people I got caught up in the Holo-craze and with the click of a Holo I was down the road of Holo-grinders. After 3 professions I was left to my own choosing of a career and, since I had thoroughly enjoyed Swordsman, I decided to try the 3 remaining melee elite professions. My first choices were Teras Kasi and Fencer. I was supremely disappointed to find that Teras Kasi was not challenging in anyway, I believe it is one of the easiest professions in the game, while towering over other melee classes with unparalled attacks and dmg/spd. Fencer was helped along by the nifty Dodge mods, but also the health bleed played a big part in my ability to take down tough kills, also the Center of Being seemed to be more potent than other melee classes. At Blademaster I believe it reached the same effectiveness as Teras Kasi, but only with other factors thrown in (i.e. buffs, armor, foods, etc.). The bleed was still a crucial attack, but scatter hit 2 is very devastating. After these two I made my way into Pikeman, I was a bit skeptical as everyone says Pikeman is a tough prof and not too rewarding. With this profession I was pleasantly surprised. While it doesn't sit equal with the others in most cases, the attacks are nice and the damage numbers superb. The main problem I had, as most I assume, was the accuracy which forced me to constantly keep Center of Being. These 3 were all helped by having Master Brawler throughout each one, the lunge2 and warcry2 attacks help tremendously when first gaining experience toward novice and beginning levels. Fast forward to the future....


A guildmate of mine started down the Swordsman path a few days before the recent Publish (6). By patch time she had achieved master and the patch came down. A lot fo you from the Kettemoor galaxy know our former Swordsman, Keelala. We3 were in the cantina shortly after the patch and he and our current master Swordsman, Oitrechi, decide to show me how the Swordsman profession has suffered from the changes to bleeds. They begin to duel, she does the bleed attack, and they end duel so that I can see the difference in the tick. Needless to say I was disgusted. Bleed went from being the premiere highlight of Swordsman, to barely a useful secondary attack. As a fellow Pikeman present at the time said, "My Pike bleeds are better than your Sword bleeds now". I fail to see how this change blances aspect of combat. Perhaps a slight lowering of damage done by the bleeds was in order, but this seems to be a debilatating change, as far as the Swordsman profession is concerned. I think a solution to this problem might be to separate changes to the types of combat classes (melee&ranged). Because problems in one aren't always problems in the other, but it seems they are dealt with as a whole. As someone who has done all of these professions I can say that I did not experience a balance of power in each, rather they all have unique aspects about them which are beneficial, with Teras Kasi you have unmatched speed/damage with a kd/dizzy (and meditation doesn't hurt either), with Fencer you have a potent CoB, coupled with a very nice attack in scatter hit2, with Pikeman you have area kd and damaging area attacks, but you suffer from high ham costs and low accuracy, with Swordsman you have the advantage of mind attacks, but the highlight here was the bleeds, which is no more. If this is not altered in anyway then I hope the next thing you are looking at is the Combat Medic profession. While Swordsman mind bleeds were high powered lets not forget that with a few Medic skills you can heal those bleeds, in combat or on the run as opposed to Teras Kasi meditation which requires a peaced, unaltered state. With Combat Medics the only cure requires Doctor skills, I ask you, is this balance?


Let me end by saying I am excited to see the combat professions evolving into, hopefully, a more balanced state of affairs. I hope with all sincerity that this bleed issue is given thought and altered in some way to make bleeds something like they once were. I am saddened because I wished to return to Swordsman in the future, and had been looking forward to the Scythe for months, with these new changes though I have begun my search for a new profession of choice. Thank you to all who post here and to any developers that put effort into correcting/altering this change.


Cheers!

AlonzoOdantis
Sun Feb 15, 2004 4:53 am
#82

I usually stick to my server forum for my board browsing ways...but i have to speak up.


I have beena swordsman now for a good deal. I completely enjoyed every aspect of it. I thought it was HORRIBLE that we had spin attack and sweep...i jsut want to hear a dev say ONE reason...ONE why we should EVER use these. Completely worthless I only used once each to see if they had cool animations. Now, our bleeds. Our wonderful bleeds. I think bulleted shortline lists stick out well to devs when they browse so I'm going to do that:


1- We have no defense


2- We are meant, seemingly to be the berserkers. A high end offensive dynamo with little defense.


3- With damage mitigation we lost the high end of our damage


4- This left our bleeds. Remove stacking...FINE....do a friggin EQ type patch where if the monster is trying to run us down the bleed does less damage, this prevents the bleed and run. I never bleed and ran anyway. The only people I know who bleed and ran were NOT swordsmen, but ranged combatants.


5- the bleed is utterly worthless. I do not know HOW this passed the floor. It makes NO SENSE. The first time I dueled someone after patch I could have sworn he was cheating. His normal mind regen was outperforming my bleed. How do you go "hmm this is a bit overpowered" and decide an 80% reduction in damage, no stacking, AND armor resists affecting it is the right course. That means that a bleed now goes through this process:


a) it has to hit


b) In pvp a 75% reduction is applied


c) Then if the person is wearing 80% armor, very common, it gets reduced by ANOTHER 80%


d) on top of that bleed damge by default is 80% less.


e) how can they NOT think it will be useless


No I will NOT use bleeds anyone who does is a fool in this current state. There is ZERO point to using them.


As far as the no soloing tough things? That's a crap line too. I still stood toe to toe with a NS elder tonight. I could use my warcry2/CoB/Int2 to keep her off of me. I fought her for 37 minutes. I had done 50,000 damage to her health, this from my random normal attacks. My mind bleed, which had been reapplied every minute just in case, had done a whopping 30k damage. Then I realized, a partner in my group (2-3 people myself included was the total group) had also dropped her mind bleed....meaning in 37 minutes of a fight, 2 swordsmen had bled 30k of mind. With her 85% resist we could NOT touch her. You just made combat a stalemate for us in PVE and PVP we are truly a laughing stock. There is ZERO reward in being swordsman over rifleman for example...hell they even get more melee defense than we do!


I cannot believe the fact they would do this, and the fact that I KNOW they will not even CONSIDER hotfixing this back to a reasonable level UNTIL they publish this "mystical" combat revamp makes me even more furious. It would take what? a couple hours to go back and say raise the bleed level to 50%? or hell remove just ONE of the reduction phases our bleed has to pass through.


I will not drop my swordsman, I will continue to try (only now without hope of succeeding) to bring down a friggin TKM.


Thanks devs, this was a fun one.




The Viceroy
You're gonna get pwned, RP style
- I support the CURB, the Devs and the attempt to make SWG a better game! - You can too!-

Rielyx
Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:01 pm
#83

with nearly master HSM i realy see no point in using a bleed thats only dishing on average 100 damage aver 20 seconds or so. just dosn't make sens to was the time and ham on it when the thin you fighting has more than 100 times that.


i can understand the push toward more active combat, but with our heavy HAM cost active combat, wich i understand and "spamming" specials, is more detrimental to us then running around dathomir in the buff smeared in carbosyrup. jsut dosn't make alot of sense to push for that and not make it something that is conducive to long life.


any way, yeah for active combat, boo for crappy implimentation



RandomToon: "Whats your location?"
Rielyx: "The middle of a big #$%@ing fight..."
Rielyx Aeberhardt
Swordsman Master
Combat Medic 4/4/0/4
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