Swordsman Archive
Thread: SWORDSMEN'S ROUND TABLE: PVP damage output...please discuss
First off, I am a master rifleman, swordsman (working to master, but a ways to go).
You need to be careful in this discussion. There is a huge difference between PvP (used to mean battles between multiple opponents) and duels (1v1). Balance in PvP is not the same as balance in duels.
The damage output of a swordsman is in my experiance equal or better than most ranged weapons. (excepting heavy weapons, the LLC, and a pre-nerf T-21) I currently have 3 power hammers that are all higher damage than a current T-21. (all sliced for damage using max damage powerups) Personally, charging headon into a LLC, flamethrower or machinegun (strafe2 is a master skill for rifle) is a futile jesture anyway. In group PvP, the successful melee players are those who dont charge straight in, but are the ones who pick their targets well and close using cover / distractions.
The problem is not in the offensive output, but in the defensive abilities of the swordsman. If the current changes to fencer and TKA on test were carried over to swordsman, it would go a very long way to solving the problem. Ranged and Melee defense in particular need to be rased to number in the area of what fencers are getting. This will make kiters much less likely to hit you.
There also seem to be additional modifiers for moving accuracy. This will help as well. A good bump to defense is a much needed change.
The very fact that people *have* to take another elite melee class (TKA -- not even going to mention CH) to support their main (sword/pike/fence) should be evidence enough there's something fundamentally wrong with the other three. Period.
Also I know a few swordsmen that do extreamly well in PvP.
I'm not saying the class does not need attention. Posture changes were a big thing to your class and with the 30s timer it kinda handicaped you. However your dammage output is rather frightening. Of course that is also limited by your general inability to maintain or easily apply the dammage to targets. All in all however, if you play smart, you will do very well.
Also TKM's should stand very little chance of beating a master swordsman. If your wearing good armor TKM dammage is quite tolerable. I'd wager you could bleed a TKM and then just stand there in good armor and outlive them.
Also if people want to do well, they need to get over this singular class concept. You need offense, you need defense, you need to heal. BH is the closest to a total package, but because of thier lack of defense I don't find them very tough. You don't spend all too many skill points on mastering sword, so use your points wisely and make a custom chr that works for you.
TaimaishuYun wrote:
u guys also get to hit mind which people cant heal...
Yes, but the fact we can do mind damage (only with Headshotthough) is insignificant in comparison to the penalties we take...I do nearly as much mind damage to myself with a rifle as I do to my opponent and my rate of fire is very low, especially since our best weapon (Laser Rifle) has a base speed of about 5.9, is only any good between 61-64m and doesn't exactly do astronomical damage, about 50-400. And I know the best swords come in around 2.5, 100-250 (as I make 'em, hehe) and that's not exactly shabby.
Throw on that melee damage multiplier and we never win in one-on-one PvP. PvP should be like rock, paper, scissor...classes should be at an advantage over some and at a disadvantage against other. We have the advantage over no combat classes.
Anyway, we aren't talking about Riflemen (hehe sorry, you set me off!)...we're talking about ranged attacks in general...I do think melee fighters should be given the upper hand for sure, but the method in which the advantage is given should be determined by accuracy, not damage modifiers. It makes more sense and is more realistic. The fact is, skilled melee fighters should hardly ever miss when they get up-close.
Yeah, so I got drawn here by Thunderheart's post. I'm a pistoleer, but one of my good buddies is a 2h swordsman.
A Master pistoleer can spam stopping shot at the speed capif they have a 1.1 or 1.2 second gun. A person who has BH pistol and some pistoleer speed boxes can spam any special move with any pistol at 1 second. 500 damage in pvp would mean 2000 raw damage, and that is indeed possible with stopping shot and a good, powered up FWG. However, the FWG, and most pistols, are AP0 weapons, so against armor they're taking a 50% performance hit, minimum.
As an aside, most other special moves are 1 second at master pistoleer, unless you have the really slow weapons (tangle pistol, etc). However, there is a huge speed boost at master, so the rest of the pistoleers are often attacking much slower.
Everyone seems to be forgetting the usefulness of of having EVERY weapon in your arsenal (except for Vibro Axes, but those don't really count as 'weapons') being AP2. You know how about half the chuckleheads in pvp are running around in composite armor? Well, now you can chew through that armor much easier than everybody except riflemen and their precious T-21's.
And mind bleeds being a 1 way ticket to an incap has got to be pretty useful, you must admit. 
for thos of you who r complaning about tkas an swords mens dam
there melee if ur a fool enogh to let them get in 15-5m ur a fool all master of any melee should instintly kill in one hit no matter what
and leav the dam of the swords men and tka alone unles ur going to buff it
and all other melee master should be 1 hit kills
and i persnoly think melee should be abel to pumb out 2x as much dam as any rang proffesion
u know evry one wants to be the most powerfull so when they get killed they cry nerf (plzs stop befor u trash ur selfs)
Smokeybone wrote:
This game is Star Wars.. It's supposed to be Star Warsy. Ranged weapons are the focus in Star Wars. Yes Jedi use swords. But the only reason they are any where significantly good with them is because they have the force. They block and repel gunfire. Have any of you guys seen Indiana Jones? Remember that guy swinging his swords around? What'd Indy do? Well he pulled out his pistol and shot him in the face. Dead. End note.
good job we're not playing Indiana Jones: Galaxies then I guess 
But Really....there are a lot of things in this game that aren't "Star Warsy" ...so picking on Melee classes...claiming theySHOULD diebecause their not as"star warsy" as firing laser beams is forgetting 1 vital important factor. One of the most important factors of any GAME, especially those that involve PvP
BALANCE.
You can't simply ignore balance for the sake of being "realistic" or more "star warsy" because the idea of the game is to have fun. What your basically saying in this post is that melee shouldn't even exist in this game in your opinion, so who cares if their balanced or have fun.
After all...... In a film that has nothing to do with star wars, some guy shot some other guythat had a sword!! You can't beat that "logic"ey? 
Jandreww wrote:
TaimaishuYun wrote:
u guys also get to hit mind which people cant heal...
Yes, but the fact we can do mind damage (only with Headshotthough) is insignificant in comparison to the penalties we take...I do nearly as much mind damage to myself with a rifle as I do to my opponent and my rate of fire is very low, especially since our best weapon (Laser Rifle) has a base speed of about 5.9, is only any good between 61-64m and doesn't exactly do astronomical damage, about 50-400. And I know the best swords come in around 2.5, 100-250 (as I make 'em, hehe) and that's not exactly shabby.
Throw on that melee damage multiplier and we never win in one-on-one PvP. PvP should be like rock, paper, scissor...classes should be at an advantage over some and at a disadvantage against other. We have the advantage over no combat classes.
I believe he was talking about us Swordsman. Not about Riflemen heh
Get some armor and get some enhances and none of those classes are nearly as big a threat.
The cocky BH that comes up against me with his LLC will find that it does crap for damage because I'm wearing 80% electricity resist composite.
Commandos it's even worse because 1 they have to be within 16m to hit me (lunge is 15m so I can hit them right back) and 2 they get the nasty rifleman style melee penalty with that weapon equipped.
Unless a commando completely surprises you he will have no chance to kill you before you demolish him, and again with buffs and armor that one hit won't kill you (though you'll need to find water and heal wounds after you kill him).
Riflemen have terrible accuracy once you get within 30m of them, just close distance as quickly as you can or break line of sight and get out of there to bring them into your range. Again, I cannot stress the importance of armor and buffs (in this case a combo dancer/musician buff will make you impossible to kill in one shot, much less enough for you to close range).
Pistoleer and smuggler both hit the health pool, which you can heal. They won't do enough damage in enough time if you've got armor and enhances.
Really, the only way to fight these days is with armor and enhances. You will die, and quickly, without them.
-Shi
The Game World:
Classes should be balanced in one way or another, and there is no way a Fencer, Pikeman, Swordsman or even a TKA is a match for a ranged player. Mostly because most ranged players use the EXPLOIT of running around. HOW IS THIS AN EXPLOIT? The effect of running around is that lag (even 100 ping) makes it almost impossible for a melee player to hit a ranged player. I have literally chased a guy for 20+ seconds with him always showing as in range but never being able to attack because he is out of range. How can this be, in range but yet still out of range? Yea it's the fault of lag, but ranged players are exploiting that. If it shows as in range on our screen, then they need to be in range.
SOE don't respond to tickets(had one in for 3 weeks), and they have yet to respond to any bug reports about this, so it must be an exploit as SOE refuse to treat it as any other problem. Or maybe they don't care about us melee guys(the minority).
Fix the Exploit: We all need to start reporting this every time it happens as an exploit. Send in every incident toSOE until they fix it. Report players names that use it and ask they be banned. Take screen shots of it happening. Flood them with tons of reports until they fix it. After all it is our right as subscribers to demand a properly working game. Yea maybe I am being a bit a a jerk about this, but I am sick of them not responding to bugs/exploits only nerfing stuff. I am not paying for my character to be nerfed, I am paying to play a game that actually works as it meant to.
Real life: Ranged vs. Melee
Yes ranged has some advantages. But hitting a target while you are standing stillfarther than7 metersis not good(handgun). During actual combat your best shots are at least 50% less likely to hit . While running, itwould be a miracle, in fact I believe you have a better chance of shooting yourself(handgun) while running from someone at full speed than hitting a target chasing you. Anyone that's had any type of weapons training knows this. That's why police & military personnel always shoot standing or prone, except for maybe cover fire.
Then there is armor that makes it almost impossible to kill someone with a gun, anyone remember the attempted bank robbery in North Hollywood?It took 200+ police more than 20minutes of shooting and how many hits? 40(29 & 11) hits on the bank robbers. Even worse hit ratio on the robbers end.
On the other handa man with a sword would almost always hit a humanoid target standing in front of him, even with him trying to evade the blow. Of course this assumes the target has no way to defend against the blow, with say a sword, armor or shield. A prone opponent would be asure 1hitkill.
So if you want to try and say that ranged players should have an advantage over melee fine, but then make them almost impossible to hit someone while running, and dead meat if someone closes on them. And we could make it that it takes 200+ ranged players 20 minute to kill 2 Storm Troopers.
OK, on with your comments if you want. But if I die from a heart attack its because someone from SOE finally responds after3 months of trying to get melee players fixed. But they wont, to busy nerfing characters and counting our money for that.