Swordsman Archive
Thread: st gabe some intresting observations on the new genosian weapons
BomsieBTC
Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:58 pm
#14
Keep in mind, carbineers, pikemen, fencers, and TKA's got no new weapons in this publish, or in any recent publishes.
EasyMcRhinopants
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:18 pm
#15
Well, I don't have a scythe, yet, but...
Wound percentage just isn't important, unless you like to grief people you're pvping. And if that's what your looking for, then your opinion frankly doesn't count.
Vs. the vast majority of possible opponents, an AP3 weapon just mean and extra 25% damage, since there are hardly any AR3 opponents, especially since AR was generally reduced on mobs two months ago. Except for krayts of course, where with AP3 you'd have only 70% of your damage reduced versus AP2, which has 85% reduced.
So the scythe is both the fastest 2H weapon available, and the second-most damaging. What exactly is so weak about it?
The schematic limitation of.. 2? Does seem pretty limiting. I mean, eventually the weapon is gonna wear out, and it would be nice to be able to get more.
Gaidin_OL
Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:41 pm
#16
With the components dropped from the cave, and the now 500+ damage Stun Batons being made I dont think that Fencer needs a new wep. Thats pre powerup too btw.
tometaophion
Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:56 pm
#17
Through mitigation and in pve, the DPS of an awesome, sliced Two handed curved sword is in every manner superior to the Powerhammer. You people really need to look at armor sometime, it has EQUAL resistance to kinetic, lol. The scythe speed and near powerhammer dmg, create in the hands of a master swordsman an adjusted DPS near that of the TKM. It almost achieves awesomeness. You will find creatures with 100% kinetic resist ALSO have 100% Blast resist 
BomsieBTC
Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:00 am
#18
tometaophion wrote:
Through mitigation and in pve, the DPS of an awesome, sliced Two handed curved sword is in every manner superior to the Powerhammer. You people really need to look at armor sometime, it has EQUAL resistance to kinetic, lol. The scythe speed and near powerhammer dmg, create in the hands of a master swordsman an adjusted DPS near that of the TKM. It almost achieves awesomeness. You will find creatures with 100% kinetic resist ALSO have 100% Blast resist
Actually, Nightsister elders are 100% immune to kinetic, and only 25% resistant to blast.
tometaophion
Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:17 am
#19
You will find when considering NPC humanoids that many have resists at 100%, across many different dmg types, their is no specific kinetic problem
From swgcreatures.com
Creatures with 100% kinetic resists and Less than 100% blast resist
Female Malklok Plainswalker
Malklok PLainswaler
Peko Peko Albatross
Out Of 750 Creatures
wyzer301
Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:37 am
#20
I agree with haun. "Plus I would like to see the swordman's best weapon to be a sword and not a hammer, and leave no room for disscusion." he said while beating the dead horse.
StGabriel
Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:45 am
#21
against armor it is pretty useless (we need heavy ap)
Actually armor piercing doesn't really help. It isn't even intended to increase your damage once you match an opponents AR (although testing indicates that it does). Essentially armor piercing is completely seperate from resists. AP3 vs. AR1 will increase your damage by almost 50%, however it will do nothing to prevent the 90% resist that the armor might have. The result would be roughly 15% damage (rather than the 12.5% damage you'd deal with AP2).
Unless AP/AR changes, higher AP isn't really an option. I see lots of possible venues to follow and I've suggested several in the past. Change the way AP works with AR to allow partial bypassing of resists. Change armor so that it is not quite so dominating and invest more into player defenses. Give more player abilities that allow partial bypassing of armor. I don't know all of these have at least some merit I think (and some problems as well). Hopefully we'll see -something- come time for the rebalance.
As per the original question I'm not sure what to say. I think the Scythe is a very nice weapon for those who are not speed-capped through tapes (i.e. most swordsmen). The new rifle is nice as well. I'm not sure that getting the schematics again and again is intended. Unfortunately it's not really that productive to say: ooooh, look what they got. The best I can do is express concerns mentioned here which I've done.
Once we see the combat rebalance, if we're still lacking, then I think I will have good leverage to really push for some changes and it may be that the Scythe is one of these. From feedback I've received back I think this is the best we can do for now.
StGabe.
Actually armor piercing doesn't really help. It isn't even intended to increase your damage once you match an opponents AR (although testing indicates that it does). Essentially armor piercing is completely seperate from resists. AP3 vs. AR1 will increase your damage by almost 50%, however it will do nothing to prevent the 90% resist that the armor might have. The result would be roughly 15% damage (rather than the 12.5% damage you'd deal with AP2).
Unless AP/AR changes, higher AP isn't really an option. I see lots of possible venues to follow and I've suggested several in the past. Change the way AP works with AR to allow partial bypassing of resists. Change armor so that it is not quite so dominating and invest more into player defenses. Give more player abilities that allow partial bypassing of armor. I don't know all of these have at least some merit I think (and some problems as well). Hopefully we'll see -something- come time for the rebalance.
As per the original question I'm not sure what to say. I think the Scythe is a very nice weapon for those who are not speed-capped through tapes (i.e. most swordsmen). The new rifle is nice as well. I'm not sure that getting the schematics again and again is intended. Unfortunately it's not really that productive to say: ooooh, look what they got. The best I can do is express concerns mentioned here which I've done.
Once we see the combat rebalance, if we're still lacking, then I think I will have good leverage to really push for some changes and it may be that the Scythe is one of these. From feedback I've received back I think this is the best we can do for now.
StGabe.
Knocky
Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:53 am
#22
Leverage?
I don't know Gab, Warcry and Intimidate getting nerfed right after they nerfed bleed? A move like this tells me the Devs dont particularly care what we think.
NashDarksabre
Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:10 am
#23
>and leave no room for disscusion...
Yeah, that's the part that bugs me the most. Here we have to spend all this time getting good parts to make one, and hope we get a good slice, to get a weapon that might be a little better than a power hammer.
It would be nice to finally get a SWORD that was better than these weapons.
But actually, I'm hoping the devs do a good job on the weapon patch (though I'm rather doubtful). I'd much rather have all of our weapons be useful, instead of having one weapon that is the best.
Yeah, that's the part that bugs me the most. Here we have to spend all this time getting good parts to make one, and hope we get a good slice, to get a weapon that might be a little better than a power hammer.
It would be nice to finally get a SWORD that was better than these weapons.
But actually, I'm hoping the devs do a good job on the weapon patch (though I'm rather doubtful). I'd much rather have all of our weapons be useful, instead of having one weapon that is the best.
Message Edited by NashDarksabre on 03-02-2004 01:11 AM
Gimperial666
Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:03 am
#24
....waiting for the revamps.... Then the revamp hot fixes.
Thats all the time they have with me.
Thats all the time they have with me.
haun
Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:58 am
#25
EasyMcRhinopants wrote:
Well, I don't have a scythe, yet, but...
Wound percentage just isn't important, unless you like to grief people you're pvping. And if that's what your looking for, then your opinion frankly doesn't count.
Vs. the vast majority of possible opponents, an AP3 weapon just mean and extra 25% damage, since there are hardly any AR3 opponents, especially since AR was generally reduced on mobs two months ago. Except for krayts of course, where with AP3 you'd have only 70% of your damage reduced versus AP2, which has 85% reduced.
So the scythe is both the fastest 2H weapon available, and the second-most damaging. What exactly is so weak about it?
The schematic limitation of.. 2? Does seem pretty limiting. I mean, eventually the weapon is gonna wear out, and it would be nice to be able to get more.
thats the dumbest thing i have read today.
so all BH,s and commandos are griefers because they cause wounds?
FtB
Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:45 pm
#26
EasyMcRhinopants wrote:Wound percentage just isn't important, unless you like to grief people you're pvping. And if that's what your looking for, then your opinion frankly doesn't count.
Not true.
Causing wounds has nothing to do with griefing.
In a raid on a base, poeple will die and clone over and over. If you can cause them heavy wounds, they have to heal or find a medic before running back out to the fight, slowing them down considerably.