Swordsman Archive
Thread: Do the devs know they are going to mess up SWG?
deiterleemer
Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:33 pm
#14
Gwinbladde wrote:
I know nothing about SOE's Combat upgrade, but as I read these posts I am a little scared.
First thing is that I mostly rely on myself, but its clear that no one should beat everything in the game alone. And as someone stated here before, large groups are nightmare. People want to actually play the game, not to wait for another 10 other people to move out when going on somewhat bigger hunt.
I remeber my first and last try of Corvete mission. We waited one hour till we meet before that damn shuttle, then another half hour Doctor was buffing people. When finally inside the Corvete, we encouter two war droids with 150k HAM together with two some Imp soldiers with over 70k HAM and half the group die instantly. I call that unnecessary tough mission.
SOE should make some changes to the combat proffesions, so people can play the game. Maybe the HAM special cost system should be altered in some way too. Just an idea.
Gilias Walla
Human Pistoleer/Artisan
none of the people posting on this thread know anything about the upgrade either, so take anything said here with a grain of salt.
Yeobot
Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:06 pm
#15
This is long....
Okay, this is a subject that is dear to me, so I have to said something :-) First, I think everyone already works with everyone else to some degree. I count on doctors for buffs, I also need weapons, armor, a house, stuff for the house, and other neat stuff I collect along the way. I think the fun of the game is that you can belong toa city, which I do - that's the multiplayer part of the game. Just sitting in a city and watching people interact can really be entertaining at times... You also meet some great people on line and I do look forward to chatting with people on a regular basis...
But when it comes to combat I have to say that I would not play if I couldn't log on at night after the kids are in bed and play on my own for awhile - solo hunting not grouped, but in a solo group, or I will never see Jedi in my life time... -yes it's a contradiction, but I didn't make the system, I only work it to my advantage if there is one... and people vote with their feet, so many agree...
Back to groups, etc... Our mayor took three tries before a group hunt finally worked, and even then some people did not make it. Different time zones, different countries, etc... therefore, I think we should be able to solo stuff like huurton howler lairs, etc, that you should be able to max out your xp in a couple of nights for force sensitive grinding, etc - and remember I didn't invent the grind, I only do it because there is no other way... The high end stuff should take about three to four players and that's about it... This game has to be fun for the average player or else it just won't work... this means that the less than average player will takemore timeand the super players will take less time... but on average it will work and I think that is important.
Perhaps, the only way you can make the game enjoyable for everyone would be to have more instant adventures much like the corvette, only pontentially you get more loot if you are in a larger group... then the game reacts more to the player no matter what their play style... group or solo... but you might get more rewards for going grouped... but you can still enjoy it solo if you play late at night... then perhaps more people could be jedi and it wouldn't ruin the game...
If the devs make everything "group only" then I for one will play even less, as I can't tell my wife she's second to a game, and I can't tell other players I will be somewhere when potentially I can't... it's just that simple. On a final note... I accidentially hit create new character the other day and noticed all servers are light load - many where medium to heavy load when I first joined over a year ago, so people are leaving... so I know something has to be done, but I don't think making it even harder to get somewhere will attract more players, so this combat rebalance had better make the game more fun, not make it harder to become jedi than it already is, and still allow players to enjoy themselves while solo....
Besides, in the end this is Star Wars - anything is possible...
My two cents...
VolvoSsixtyTsix
Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:31 am
#16
Swordman is God.... anyone who is a Master Swordman choose to be and enjoy a God mode. So don't say that it will be great when you can no longer solo high end mobs, we all have MS so we can kill NSE and Krayts solo. Everyone here has enough logic to realize that you can't kill a krayt solo, but still we all do this. If you want challenge in killing and doing missions, pistoleer/carabineer/commando is a ways to go.
Groups will take long, and most of the people in groupswill be10 year old J3rks who can't communicate or hunt constructively. If swordman will lose all of its current qualities in CR what is a point of being one ?
Brainplay
Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:36 am
#17
I get home from work anywhere from 1am-3am central. I know what its like finding people and I tell you its not hard.
Yeobot wrote:
This is long....
But when it comes to combat I have to say that I would not play if I couldn't log on at night after the kids are in bed and play on my own for awhile - solo hunting not grouped, but in a solo group, or I will never see Jedi in my life time... -yes it's a contradiction, but I didn't make the system, I only work it to my advantage if there is one... and people vote with their feet, so many agree... For all we know there may be a Jedi revamp 3.0 along with the combat upgrade. I understand your want for experience to grind FS and I really think that they should make it like space where the experience is equally given to everyone for a single kill as opposed to dividing it up. But lets face it, solo groups were bad for the game in the long run.
Back to groups, etc... Our mayor took three tries before a group hunt finally worked, and even then some people did not make it. Different time zones, different countries, etc... therefore, I think we should be able to solo stuff like huurton howler lairs, etc, that you should be able to max out your xp in a couple of nights for force sensitive grinding, etc - and remember I didn't invent the grind, I only do it because there is no other way... The high end stuff should take about three to four players and that's about it... This game has to be fun for the average player or else it just won't work... this means that the less than average player will takemore timeand the super players will take less time... but on average it will work and I think that is important. I agree that some lower end stuff should be readily soloable. I also believe that their should be certains teirs of npc's which take a few or alot of people to kill. Grinding is prevelant in just about every game out there and those who dedicated more time to their characters of course will surpass those that don't. Then again once you've mastered what you were after....what do you plan on doing? This game has no goals or extended missions other than the JTL squadrons to keep us occupied. As for your mayor's problem with a group hunt you gotta ask yourself why anyone should do it in the first place when they can already solo everything on their own?
Perhaps, the only way you can make the game enjoyable for everyone would be to have more instant adventures much like the corvette, only pontentially you get more loot if you are in a larger group... then the game reacts more to the player no matter what their play style... group or solo... but you might get more rewards for going grouped... but you can still enjoy it solo if you play late at night... then perhaps more people could be jedi and it wouldn't ruin the game... "Instanced" dungeons is a relatively new idea and I'm not sure if it was Everquest that started it but thats where I experienced it. It was great but other than getting loot there wasn't much point. It turned into a grind mostly except for a few of the rescue or assasinate missions which gave you a brief goal to work towards. Jedi....probably the worst implemented profession in a game who's themerevolves around them. Instanced dungeons aren't going to solve the problem and if you ever want to be a knight then you'll have to learn to PvP for afterwards.
If the devs make everything "group only" then I for one will play even less, as I can't tell my wife she's second to a game, and I can't tell other players I will be somewhere when potentially I can't... it's just that simple. On a final note... I accidentially hit create new character the other day and noticed all servers are light load - many where medium to heavy load when I first joined over a year ago, so people are leaving... so I know something has to be done, but I don't think making it even harder to get somewhere will attract more players, so this combat rebalance had better make the game more fun, not make it harder to become jedi than it already is, and still allow players to enjoy themselves while solo....You dont have to always group with guildies or friends. Complete strangers work just as well and will expand your friendship base as well. Jedi have become the "goal" that everyone seeks because its considered endgame. Unfortunately when you finish your Jedi template you'll be right back where you started from...looking for stuff to do. Whatever you may think just compare it to when JTL first came out. Jedi grinding slowed to a crawl for a while as everyone had another goal they could reach. Ace.
Besides, in the end this is Star Wars - anything is possible...
My two cents...
Neomonk
Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:22 am
#18
VolvoSsixtyTsix wrote:
Swordman is God.... anyone who is a Master Swordman choose to be and enjoy a God mode. So don't say that it will be great when you can no longer solo high end mobs, we all have MS so we can kill NSE and Krayts solo. Everyone here has enough logic to realize that you can't kill a krayt solo, but still we all do this. If you want challenge in killing and doing missions, pistoleer/carabineer/commando is a ways to go.
Groups will take long, and most of the people in groupswill be10 year old J3rks who can't communicate or hunt constructively. If swordman will lose all of its current qualities in CR what is a point of being one ?
Swordsman was the first combat profession I mastered (along with Ranger) and I loved it back then. I then moved on to Bounty Hunter and Pistoleer. At first it was fun because it was new. Then it started to get dull and I am currently switching back to Swordsman because I had a lot more fun with that. I chose swordsman because I like it. At the time I initially chose it, I had no idea how powerful it was. I know this now, but its not why I am switching back. I just like swordsman, plain and simple. Take away our uber-ness and I will still enjoy swordsman.
That being said, I hope they don't make it so we need 20 people to kill high-end stuff. A group of 5 people is anice sized group and hopefully will be able to hunt effectively.
framz
Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:32 pm
#19
Yeobot wrote:
This is long....
Okay, this is a subject that is dear to me, so I have to said something :-) First, I think everyone already works with everyone else to some degree. I count on doctors for buffs, I also need weapons, armor, a house, stuff for the house, and other neat stuff I collect along the way. I think the fun of the game is that you can belong toa city, which I do - that's the multiplayer part of the game. Just sitting in a city and watching people interact can really be entertaining at times... You also meet some great people on line and I do look forward to chatting with people on a regular basis...
But when it comes to combat I have to say that I would not play if I couldn't log on at night after the kids are in bed and play on my own for awhile - solo hunting not grouped, but in a solo group, or I will never see Jedi in my life time... -yes it's a contradiction, but I didn't make the system, I only work it to my advantage if there is one... and people vote with their feet, so many agree...
Back to groups, etc... Our mayor took three tries before a group hunt finally worked, and even then some people did not make it. Different time zones, different countries, etc... therefore, I think we should be able to solo stuff like huurton howler lairs, etc, that you should be able to max out your xp in a couple of nights for force sensitive grinding, etc - and remember I didn't invent the grind, I only do it because there is no other way... The high end stuff should take about three to four players and that's about it... This game has to be fun for the average player or else it just won't work... this means that the less than average player will takemore timeand the super players will take less time... but on average it will work and I think that is important.
Perhaps, the only way you can make the game enjoyable for everyone would be to have more instant adventures much like the corvette, only pontentially you get more loot if you are in a larger group... then the game reacts more to the player no matter what their play style... group or solo... but you might get more rewards for going grouped... but you can still enjoy it solo if you play late at night... then perhaps more people could be jedi and it wouldn't ruin the game...
If the devs make everything "group only" then I for one will play even less, as I can't tell my wife she's second to a game, and I can't tell other players I will be somewhere when potentially I can't... it's just that simple. On a final note... I accidentially hit create new character the other day and noticed all servers are light load - many where medium to heavy load when I first joined over a year ago, so people are leaving... so I know something has to be done, but I don't think making it even harder to get somewhere will attract more players, so this combat rebalance had better make the game more fun, not make it harder to become jedi than it already is, and still allow players to enjoy themselves while solo....
Besides, in the end this is Star Wars - anything is possible...
My two cents...
Yeah, I see it the same way. Hope we will not be forced to flee somewhere else, becouse idea of 15 people group on some medium mob.
AcEKenshin
Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:27 pm
#20
All I know is that I played Final Fantasy XI for 3 weeks and got to level 7 because my frickin' groupmates were about as smart as a rock. (nothing against rocks)
If SWG becomes anything like FFXI, I may just die.
I DO think if you have played SWG over a year (like i have) and are on the verge of jedi or already have jedi, you should be able to solo NS, Rancors, and all that crap.
I do have to admit the most fun times in SWG are when me and 2 other friends go to Dath and tear up any NS who looks at us funny, but that's just 3 people. If the DEVs want massive groups of people (15-20) then they have another thing coming, because that is not fun at all.
And for all you people who say "Well if you want to solo then go play KOTOR.", if I wanted to play KOTOR, don't you think I'd be playing it??? Besides, KOTOR is the same thing over and over, because it is a one-player game. SWG, on the otherhand, is never the same, and that's why I enjoy it.
Jagbar
Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:47 pm
#21
Moosemanuk wrote:
been a swordsman for months and soloing stuff is quite frankly dull ... don't you all realise that the second M in MMORPG stands for 'Multiplayer' ?
When SOE set out to write a multiplayer Star Wars game, their only mistakewas that the unbalanced combat system allowed soloing in the first place. Taking it out of the game is a massive step forward for the community in my opinion.
If its soloing you want, there are plenty of other games out there.
name one game where anything but noob mobs are not soloable. if you don't like to solo then it's very simple..don't solo! this has been my point for the longest time. personally i hate pve'ing in large groups, unless it's a mission that requires group work, or a small guild outting with a few guildies. if not.. then i don't group.. and i shouldnt be forced to group because you and anyone else thinks i should. now i agree that there should be a limit.. as in krayts, gorax's, gdk's, and other large game mobs shouldnt be soloable.. but ffs i should be able to solo atleast 9-13k hammobs without a 20 person group of people all with their finger on the loot trigger.
StGabriel
Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:06 pm
#22
Remember that we don't even have the Sandbox up yet (soon, hopefully!). A lot will change but the specifics of how that will play out are all yet to be determined.
Right now one has to ask why anyone would group at all for pretty much anything. There are certainly games that are very successful with "required" grouping (EQ1, EQ2, FFXI) and so I think there is a lot of evidence that this stuff can work and that players enjoy group dynamics. As a player I definitely enjoy being desired by groups of other players for my abilities.
That said, it's pretty tough to change things right in the middle of a game's life. Players right now have certain expectations about the game and it's dangerous to turn too many of those on their head.
Hopefully we will see a mix. That is, real opportunities for groups to excel and be rewarded for good teamwork (something that is sadly lacking right now) but still opportunities for players to be successful by themselves.
But it's all premature. We don't really know how things are going to work yet. Most who have seen the changes think they look great though.
Everyone go sign up for the CU Beta if you haven't already. That will probably be a good time to discuss this stuff in more detail.
Gabe.
Right now one has to ask why anyone would group at all for pretty much anything. There are certainly games that are very successful with "required" grouping (EQ1, EQ2, FFXI) and so I think there is a lot of evidence that this stuff can work and that players enjoy group dynamics. As a player I definitely enjoy being desired by groups of other players for my abilities.
That said, it's pretty tough to change things right in the middle of a game's life. Players right now have certain expectations about the game and it's dangerous to turn too many of those on their head.
Hopefully we will see a mix. That is, real opportunities for groups to excel and be rewarded for good teamwork (something that is sadly lacking right now) but still opportunities for players to be successful by themselves.
But it's all premature. We don't really know how things are going to work yet. Most who have seen the changes think they look great though.
Everyone go sign up for the CU Beta if you haven't already. That will probably be a good time to discuss this stuff in more detail.
Gabe.
Yeobot
Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:06 pm
#23
Also, just because you are Jedi doesn't mean you have nothing to do, you get an alt character, you can role play more and yes, once you are Jedi you have to PVP, which is something I don't do right now...
I agree, groups of two or three is great, more than that starts to fall apart... people need to log, etc and you are only half done...
I don't think swords is over powered right now, but most people also defense stack, by bringing in lines from other professions such as fencer and tka...
I just want to be able to play the game without having to depend on other people to be playing at the exact same time I am when it comes to combat...
As for just getting a perfect stranger to fight with as a team - let me know the next time you see a big fight over who gets the nightsister loot, etc like I saw the other night between two solo players who decided to group... you need to know the people you are grouping with ahead of time. The rest of us where amused as their jokes became more serious once it was discovered that the loot was rather nice...
HOTDOG
Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:59 pm
#24
I NEVER would have become aMaster Swordsman without the holo grind. I was like "Swordsman?- In Star Wars? Get thef**k outta here!"
But Once I got it I fell in love. I did NOT take this profession because you can go godmode with it. I do NOT love it because I can walk into arancor nestprettymuch fearless.
Ilove MS 'cause melee professions in this game rock! You can break down a mob, scientifically (intimidate, drop mind bleed with mind hit3 and follow it up with head hits- etc.) a lot easier than with most gun profs.
That said...
You don't really get to do that type of thing in a group.
Don't get me wrong. I do like groups for the convo. But it ain't always fun running around with 10 other people and barely getting a shot in. And this is AFTER the headache that comes with trying to get together.
I have been playing JTL for the past couple of months because it's so EASY to get to the action. No buffs. No waiting for people to join. You just jump in your ship and roll.
I thought the CU was going to be more about making high end Mobs harder (even though I haven't personally soloed a Krayt or an Elder) and tweeking the abilites of the professions (like making pistol profs more fun and challenging), NOT about forcing people to group.
If it isgrouping they want they need a two pronged attack: Turn us against each other and add story CONTENT to increase roleplay.
Some ideas...
1. AMP the GCW!
* bring back the battlefields-withbattlefield specific loot- ATATs- NPC Air to ground attacks-FP rewards for guarding Turrets-
* Go ahead and add the damnHutt faction, already!Privateer works well with JTL. Just DO IT. People would return just for that.
*Allow players that are ranked to call in for(npc) backup.
2.Start player bounties. I know this is tough to make fair for those that don't want to PvP but it CAN be done and should be done.
3.Make terminals that are specifically for groups.
Personally the mission terminals that we have now I think are fine. They give missions that anyone strong enough to take them should be able to handle. A group terminal would bemultistep/multitask missions that you HAVE to be in a group to get and must remain in the group to finish in (x) amount of time. An example would be:
You have to find acontact- rescue them from a lair. They give you clues to another contact. On the way you are ambushed.etc. etc. You know, just something reallyinvolved.
The problem with SWG is not that people aren't grouping. The problem is people aren't being inspired to create their own content. Once you master your chosen prof. Get your Ace.Open your Jedi- what do you do next? There is no ongoing content that keeps you coming back.
Forcing people to group is NOT the solution. Godmode or not.
Droci
Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:36 am
#25
Moosemanuk wrote:
been a swordsman for months and soloing stuff is quite frankly dull ... don't you all realise that the second M in MMORPG stands for 'Multiplayer' ?
When SOE set out to write a multiplayer Star Wars game, their only mistakewas that the unbalanced combat system allowed soloing in the first place. Taking it out of the game is a massive step forward for the community in my opinion.
If its soloing you want, there are plenty of other games out there.
soloing just makes this game feel more single player than multiplayer, once you get use to soloing you branch yourself off from people and continue to like to hunt by yourself
clowdvailo
Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:55 am
#26
I for one miss the old days when you had to get in full groups to go to endor. Those days were fun. I was still able to solo certain things back then, but now the reason the community is dieing is because everyone can solo everything. I cant wait till we need to get in groups again to take a rancor lair or bluurg lair. The good old days when ewoks used to kick everyones asses were the best. I am looking forward to this once again.