Swordsman Archive

...its simply not possible to kill an ATST in 3 hits with a Power Hammer. With 17,500 ham and 90% resists even lucky three 10k hits added to the restistswould result in three 900 hits which is is 2700. Did you come here to stifle us?

In a duel.. you flame me and I mind hit you orwhatever.. i die in about 30 seconds from the flame you do you die from my mind hit. We both get up. You run away and let your mind rest and you're good to go... I have 1/2 black bar in all 3 slots. Next round? Same.. and I spend the next 20 minutesin the med center and you go shopping on the bazaar for some muon.

I read some of your old posts(serin71) and you seem like a level headed all around kind of nice guy... but don't start posting all kinds of innacurate info here on this forum. We may use weapons from the Dark Ages but we were'nt born there.

When enter you a new forum with people who have played the class since early July you might want to taper your charisma a bit. I can't imagine being a novice Commando and going to YOUR board and start warningYOU about what stats togive the devs. If you took the time to read VolstanGriban's lengthy and brilliant post you would see that we KNOW our stats. If you look at at StGabriel's posts from the TC you would see we DO our homework. If you leafed through all of Gorecki's poststo the Devs you would see that we know this profession, as well as the many others, like the back of our hand.

I (and most of us) am very fair here to new swordsman,even those who have beenholo'ed to this place but try to demonstrate some humility and ignorance.

... with that .. you are certainly welcome to reply with somefactual information.

not possible to kill atst in 3 hits, i average 1500-4000headhits, average about 2500, x 9 hits to atst 18kham,

I killed anATST tonight and it took me over a minute and a half, startedspamming specials, then i decided not to spam specials anymore cause i had to heal myself back to full 4 times and just left it on auto attack. The most i was hitting the ATST for was around 3k with 2hand-hit-3, and even then it wasn't doing the full combat spam damage.

I play alot, and everynight i'm either dueling or doing pvp raids with my guild so i have a really good idea how we measure up compared to other professions in pvp and the truth is we fall far behind not only because of our limited range but also because damage output.

TKA vs Swordsman

I have done extensive testing with master TKA's and we fall so far behind them in damage and defense its not even funny (like this was a big secret anyways). Let me share with you guys some results.I dueled a few master TKA using thisscenario and i always get the same results.Iwould duel them 4 times,once with the curved sword using specials (heals allowed) once with the powerhammer and specials and then once with the curved sword no specials just auto attack (no heals) and then the same with the powerhammer from 3m away. No KD2 allowed because its the cheepest move in the game, it reders anyone that gets hit with it completely defenseless and also unable to have any offense for quite a long period of time aslongas the dizzy sticks (overpowered?).

With the curved sword and specials we would hitfor about the same amount of damage,their damage being a little more consistant than mine but about the same max, onlytheywere hitting me 2-3 times for every 1 hit i got onthem. My damage was around 150-300theirs wasaround 200-300. With the powerhammer itis very difficult to even hita master TKAbecause oftheir defense and the horrible accuracy mods on the hammerbut when i did hit, itwas for around 300-400 damage ( i remember one duel where I missed 4 consecutive hits with specials while he got in 12 unanswered hits on me). He was hitting me 3-4 times as much with consistant 200-300 hits.

Using auto attack and no heals with the curved sword i would hit them every time they would hit me (we were both hitting once per second) but for considerably less damage.I would usually get incapped with them left at 60-75% ham. With the powerhammer its even worse, they would get about 2-3 hits for everyone of my hits but i was missing about 1 out of every 5 swings. Anyways usually ended up incapped withthem left anywhere between 75-80% ham. I saw much higher hits but the damage was really inconsistant many times they were hitting harder. Now I know they have much more toughness than us but shouldnt we have more offensive power to make up for the lack of defense? In this case they come out on top on both defense and offensive power (again like this was a big secret),

Anyways I encourage anyone who doesn't believe me to test these resultsout for yourself, its very simple to do and doesnt take long at all.

Swordsman vs Pistoleer

Pistoleers complain because they do the least damage out of the ranged professions, this is a good exaple of how far behind range users we are in damage.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Kauri&message.id=37898

If you dont want to read the thread its just a post about krayt fwg5 with stats like

0.9 spd 70-320 dmg

0.3 150-360 dmg (not to sure about this one)

1.2 90-488 dmg

Now most of these are slicedbut with their accuracy, and the speed with which they can fire off specials we dont even come close to that damage. We dont even have wepons that come close to that damage ratio, for us a powerhammer with 5.4 speed and 600 damage is great and thats sliced. Anyone else see a problem in damage here?

I dueled a master pistoleer (not the first time but these results are fresh in my head) on my server tonight with a krayt fwg5 stats 1.1 spd 93-450 damage, sliced and powered up, i lasted 3 seconds, he was hitting me for 400-600 with fan shot every second. With 2hand hit 3 i can for an average of300-400 damage every 2-3 seconds.

Anyways hope that info helps and all of it is very easy for the devs to test themselves i'm sure many of you that pvp have had the same experiances although it sounds like most of you dont pvp (I wonder why). More info to come....

Also speaking of balance please read this and see if it makes sense at all

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swordsman&message.id=7284&highlight=#M7284

and Goreki if you can show that to the devs i'm sure it would help them to understand how unbalanced all the other melees are compared to TKA.

I kill at-st's left and right, if your buffed and have someone to heal you or have it distracted with a pet, you can take it down in a couple hits..

I usually it at-st's for 3-4k damage...

I have just starting sword-swinging, but as a Commando I have taken a closer look at armor and how it works.

The one important thing people seem to miss on a regular base is Armor Rating and Armor Piercing are not even used for calculating the damage if the target has NO resistance to the damage!

If your target is vulnerable to your damage type is doesn't matter if he has ar0-3 and you have ap0-3, the damage won't be affected. AP and AR are just a way to determine how effective the resistance is.

It goes like this: "Haha, you cannot hurt me with your hammer, I got a cool vest with kinetic res." "Well, but my hammer is twice the size of you, it will crush you anyway."

So if you use a Launcher Pistol against an AT-ST now, he will receive full damage.

There are some great armor guides in this forum, for those who are interessted, look out for them.

Now I don't know how much damage a PH can output in one single hit with the most powerful special, but I cannot imagine you can destroy an AT-ST in 3 hits. I mean 6-7k damage? It has to be a lucky day my Flamethrower /flamesingle2 does a 6k hit. And that is supposed to be one of the strongest weapons with 400-800 basedamage on average(thus being a commando-weapon.)

But then, I don't know what multipliers the high specials got. If there is really a 10x special, I am looking forward to getting that ...


About the discussion of Meele vs Commando I'd say the other commandos here are right, commando is far from being overpowered in PvP. In a 1on1 a commando has only 1(!) chance of hitting, and that is not a good one. After that we got to wait like 8 secs on average. In 1on1 with ranged we are toast most of the time, most ranged can keep us down or kill us before we come in range, since we are more like melee than ranged. (I won't start about our other weapons, they have no use in PvP, at least in my opinion.)
If any class is overpowered, it's BH. Not only because of eye-shot(I would have no problem with it, if it would've be moved to master already) but also because there heavy weapon seems to be out of place if I look at my heavy weapon tree.

Concerning PvE so far I would say some more toughness would be nice and I miss a lot too often with my specials(well coming from pistoleer, if you play commando the hit-rate is awesome lol.) Damage seems to be ok though. I would say PvP is out of balance far too much anyway, way too many instant incaps as someone stated. In 1on1 you can say who will win before the fight and in large fights it's zerging most of the time. Not alot of tactics possible( I always go /flamesingle2 since my FPS drop to zero anyway.)

Hope that made sense.

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Henzo-Kauri wrote:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Kauri&message.id=37898

If you dont want to read the thread its just a post about krayt fwg5 with stats like

0.9 spd 70-320 dmg

0.3 150-360 dmg (not to sure about this one)

1.2 90-488 dmg

Now most of these are sliced but with their accuracy, and the speed with which they can fire off specials we dont even come close to that damage. We dont even have wepons that come close to that damage ratio, for us a powerhammer with 5.4 speed and 600 damage is great and thats sliced. Anyone else see a problem in damage here?

I dueled a master pistoleer (not the first time but these results are fresh in my head) on my server tonight with a krayt fwg5 stats 1.1 spd 93-450 damage, sliced and powered up, i lasted 3 seconds, he was hitting me for 400-600 with fan shot every second. With 2hand hit 3 i can for an average of 300-400 damage every 2-3 seconds.

Anyways hope that info helps and all of it is very easy for the devs to test themselves i'm sure many of you that pvp have had the same experiances although it sounds like most of you dont pvp (I wonder why). More info to come....

Also speaking of balance please read this and see if it makes sense at all

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swordsman&message.id=7284&highlight=#M7284

and Goreki if you can show that to the devs i'm sure it would help them to understand how unbalanced all the other melees are compared to TKA.

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Some of those values are flawed since the minimum base speed of any weapon is at the moment 1 second. It doesn't make sense to have a weapon with a lower speed of 1 second. And if you are at master(which I assume is what you are all discussing about) you got some nice speed boni. That's the reason why pistoleers are great as dabblers but have the weakest dmg-output as master btw. And you got to remember that special spd-multiplier are assigned AFTER getting the real base damage. So the minimum speed for stoppingshot(thats the most powerful I think) is like 3 or 4 seconds IIRC. Never tested it, so I am not sure, but I never used it since it's way too slow in PvE(you can use other specials with the same damage over time.)
So it won't happen that a pistoleer hits you once a second with his most powerful attack. And if people got a FWG with less than 1 second speed they just had bad luck that the boni didn't went into damage.
I think once again the only class with a powerful special that can spammed real fast are BH. As a Pistoleer I got more than once killed by a BH who spammed Eye-Shot before I could even shoot back more than once.(that is with a 50% resi helm and 700 mind.) I admit my low FPS did their part but even with a big work-horse PC I would have died anyway.

BTW, I don't hate BH and want them to go to hell or something, I just think it's too easy to get eye-spam.

You can flame my post all you want. All i can say in my defense is I saw it with my own two eyes. That atst was taking blast damage like I have never seen before.

Now for the important part. I did some testing last night with friends in single PvP. I agree with just about everyone here I was dead before I could get 4 or 5 swings in using specials. With out specials and armour I faired alittle better but I still only won one duel. These duels started at an average of 10 -15 meters away and there was no running allowed. (It was a test just to see what would happen). What got me the most were suppression fire, panic shot, stopping shot.

Now is that fair and balanced I am not sure. I think that those moves need to take into account your current skills level. A master swordsman would have been fired at so many times by master he should have picked up some understanding of what can and cant be done.

Here is my idea:

1) Give all brawler classes the knockdown. It seems only fair that a person with a sword a pike or there legs would be able to take someone off there feet.

2) Reduce the affectiveness of shots that stop you in your tracks the higher skill level you are. A novice of any class would be scared to death a master in any class would be some what used to being shot at.

3) Add attack bonus to range on brawler skills as i said earlier +40% so when you are within striking distance it is something to be feared.

4) Reduce HAM cost so that armour become a viable option for swordsman

I personally think that would make the swordsman a very interesting and affective player on all fronts.

Razor, specials have an added delay factor to them, thats why if you are spamming specials it usually 2-3 seconds between swings while if you are just using auto attack at master its usually 1 swing a second. The speed of the weaopn is a big help in the ability to spam specials, where it would normally take 2-3 seconds for each special to fire these pistoleers are able to fire specials every second, master rifleman can do the same but their hits are even more powerful although they cannot sustain that damage output for a very long time but strafe 2 hits for over 900-1k damage pvp and can be fired every second.

Razor, pistoleers can fire specials once per second I have been witness to it over a dozen times, with both stopping shot and fan shot. Try getting yourself one of these krayt fwg5 and try it out for yourself.

And I would suggest to everyone else that posts here please go out and do some pvp testing yourself so we can collect some actual data here. So far most these threads have nothing to do with our damage output in pvp vs the other professions.

Perhaps my information is flawed considering the calculation of specials, but they don't have an additional delay but a delay-multiplayer. Flamethrower specials for example all have a multiplier of approximatly 4, which makes using those nothing you could ever spam, even with krayt-FT.

I have yet to see any pistoleer who spams stopping shot once a second. Even Bounty Hunter can spam Eye shot only once every 2 seconds since the multiplier is 2x. And the minimum in this game is still 1 second. So you can not get under 2 seconds.

If anything the multiplier might be used before setting the minimum speed. But I can't imagine that, I would like to see some logs from a master pistoleer regarding this, but you are right this doesn't belong here. Also don't confuse the different specials a pistoleer has, there are some with really small multipliers which can get spammed even under 2 seconds but not once a second AFAIK.

this is turning war of 1 persons word against anothers "well all i can say is that i saw this happen", and "trust me you cannot do that."

well, i guess ill join the fight. first of all, i pvp A TON, and know more about it than most. actually i havent posted on here in a while cause ive dropped carbineer and doctor to go smuggler/tka instead, since i believe this combo will support my master swordsman more in pvp. if an advanced melee gets within 6 meters of any ranged opponent, the fight should be over, unless of course the ranged is also a melee. thats already a big enough challenge, just getting there, but for ranged to be able to deal 500+ damage a hit!! ludicrous.

maybe in pvp ranged classes should recieve a 85 or 90% damage decrease. the fight would still be relatively easy if they came in contact with any melee from a range, and thats the way its sposed to be, but, if that melee gets close, that range should fall and fall fast. but hows a melee sposed to reach a ranged when they have posture changes and knockdowns and shots that do 500+. also, inside we should have a disticnt advantage, but still, thats not the way it is. they just knock ya down and run out. ppl on here and ingame who are melee complain about pvp, and i support them, since i used to be just a plain old swordsman too, and pvp life sucked back then.

on a side note: i am lovin pvp now!!! i just got lowblow (which is a ranged kd, lol, but i could definitely live without it for the good of all melee), meditation 3 and precision striking 2 from tka. i am aiming for dirty fighting in smuggler to be filled out, same with meditation, precision striking 2, master swordsman, scout 2-0-0-0, and medic 4-1-4-0. emm juicy.

take 25% off of that due to the Heavy AR also

I apologize, Henzo is right. As a Pistoleer master you can spam any special at 1 shot per second. I can't see where that makes any sense though.