Swordsman Archive

---

masdalasa wrote:

yea, it puts out decent damage WHEN it hits. and i have to disagree with top post. something about how nobody only has one combat profession.

thats not true, im master doctor also and i think that heavy swords needs ALOT of work. I enjoy being a master doctor and i dont think i should have to drop it just pick up some defenses that swordsman doesnt have. I have been master tk with doctor, master fencer with doctor, and now..master doctor with master heavy swords...and ive never gotten my ass kicked like i do now.

bottom line....heavy swordsman needs sum lovin

---

Also try looking into a better range mod weapon, on my server -3 range mod PH are available, these can be coupled with + range mod pups for an overall nice effect. If not look into scythe and the cleaver.

Cibila
-db-

---

Cibila wrote:


mfencer/tkm/mswordsman

---

aw man, thats my template!

---

NashDarksabre wrote:
. All they have to do is throw on some 90% kinetic/blast armor, and you'll have a hell of a time trying to kill them.

---

*wonders where he can find some of that stuff*

Welcome to the club Oberon I dont know too many people who have the patience to stick with this, but it is rewarding. Just shh dont give the secret away...


Cibila
-db-

---

Ufgood wrote:

As far as PvP goes our weakness isnt just our lack of defenses but also a lack of offense..... if you come across someone in 80-90 kinetic/blast (which is damn common) and melee mitigation 3 your going to do more damage to yourself with ham costs then you will to them.

---

Armor like that will take the blunt of any classes attack except for stun (and people get decent stun layered armor also), in that we are all in the same boat...or so it seems. If you are a Mswrodsman you have the advantage that whatever little damage you are doing you are doing it to the mindpool!! so that is an advantage over all the other classes except rifleman and tka, take it one step further, using a PH while buffed (essential for PVP) you can spam your attacks indefinetly with out worrying about HAM costs, while rifleman and tka even if buffed will still slowly erode thier mind while targeting mindpool.

As for mitigation3 yes it is bad but id venture to say that 70% of players choose a ranged class over a melee class and those that have hybrid ranged/melee rarely acheive mitigation3. Some might pick up mitigation2 but even that is rare.

Cibila
-db-

>*wonders where he can find some of that stuff*

All it takes is a good slice on helm. You should easily be able to break at least 80%.

---

Cibila wrote:

---

Ufgood wrote:

As far as PvP goes our weakness isnt just our lack of defenses but also a lack of offense..... if you come across someone in 80-90 kinetic/blast (which is damn common) and melee mitigation 3 your going to do more damage to yourself with ham costs then you will to them.

---

Armor like that will take the blunt of any classes attack except for stun (and people get decent stun layered armor also), in that we are all in the same boat...or so it seems. If you are a Mswrodsman you have the advantage that whatever little damage you are doing you are doing it to the mindpool!! so that is an advantage over all the other classes except rifleman and tka, take it one step further, using a PH while buffed (essential for PVP) you can spam your attacks indefinetly with out worrying about HAM costs, while rifleman and tka even if buffed will still slowly erode thier mind while targeting mindpool.

As for mitigation3 yes it is bad but id venture to say that 70% of players choose a ranged class over a melee class and those that have hybrid ranged/melee rarely acheive mitigation3. Some might pick up mitigation2 but even that is rare.

Cibila
-db-

---

Actually ive run into ALOT of players with melee mitigation 3, maybe its just my server.

But your right, the problem isnt swordsman specific, it applies to almost every class which is a HUGE problem. Everyone seems to want to nerf buffs and armor but you cant nerf both, the second you do every high end mob becomes unsoloable. Buffs arent the issue, i dont care if someone has 3k health, if they dont have armor I can still hit them with my pistol or sword for enough damage to make there 3k health of little concern, the problem is armor should of never been able to hit 80-90% resist range. 50% armor at most would be ideal (and i think we'll see something like that, notice the inability of wookiee armor to go much higher then 50% on kinetic and such?) but at the same time you would need to tone down the damage done by some higher end mobs. 50% armor isnt gonna help you ALOT when you have a nightsister or krayt hitting you for upwards to 3k damage or more.

Here's my opinion as a player.

---

You can't really make a blanket statement about stuff like this as it is different in different contexts. If you look at the worst case, things are pretty tough on Swordsmen, and unfortunately the worst case, over time, is becoming a much more common case.

Against 90% composite, with 30% stun resist, a power hammer is doing 3.125% damage after PvP damage penalty but with an AP bonus and about 2.04% against mitigation 3. Less than 1% damage against the highest melee toughness. The worst case is indeed quite bleak, especially when you consider the how high regen can get with lots of buffs.

A stun baton (or geo blaster/tangle) while lower damage would deal 8.75% against that target and a Jawa ion would deal 17.5% damage (accounting for AP1 and resists but not going into mitigation). Combat medic poisons ignore armor completely.

There is a pretty decent differential there. It is definitely important to remember that lots of professions are without stun. Swordsmen arguably simply have little else to help them. We're melee and we lack much variation in our specials. We don't get anything like meditation, our defense mods aren't that great, we can't do much against kiting, etc.

And in my opinion, one of the biggest problems is simply that we are supposed to be heavy hitters and armorpiercers and we're not. It's our role and there are simply other better ways to go about breaking through armor in PvP. Stun is the true armorpiercing attribute for a weapon in PvP and not AP. AP at best is just a slight damage bonus (and it is unclear as to whether this bonus is even intended).

Against lesser-armored foes we do indeed rock. And for what it's worth, we can always say, "at least we're not Pikemen". I think that there are lots of valid concerns about PvP and it's good for us to be vocal about them but I do agree that these concerns are all qualified by their context and that certainly Swordsman are not alone in a lot of these concerns.

Message Edited by StGabriel on 04-06-2004 04:48 PM

---

StGabriel wrote:
Here's my opinion as a player.

---

You can't really make a blanket statement about stuff like this as it is different in different contexts. If you look at the worst case, things are pretty tough on Swordsmen, and unfortunately the worst case, over time, is becoming a much more common case.

Against 90% composite, with 30% stun resist, a power hammer is doing 3.125% damage after PvP damage penalty but with an AP bonus and about 2.04% against mitigation 3. Less than 1% damage against the highest melee toughness. The worst case is indeed quite bleak, especially when you consider the how high regen can get with lots of buffs.

A stun baton (or geo blaster/tangle) while lower damage would deal 8.75% against that target and a Jawa ion would deal 17.5% damage (accounting for AP1 and resists but not going into mitigation). Combat medic poisons ignore armor completely.

There is a pretty decent differential there. It is definitely important to remember that lots of professions are without stun. Swordsmen arguably simply have little else to help them. We're melee and we lack much variation in our specials. We don't get anything like meditation, our defense mods aren't that great, we can't do much against kiting, etc.

And in my opinion, one of the biggest problems is simply that we are supposed to be heavy hitters and armorpiercers and we're not. It's our role and there are simply other better ways to go about breaking through armor in PvP. Stun is the true armorpiercing attribute for a weapon in PvP and not AP. AP at best is just a slight damage bonus (and it is unclear as to whether this bonus is even intended).

Against lesser-armored foes we do indeed rock. And for what it's worth, we can always say, "at least we're not Pikemen". I think that there are lots of valid concerns about PvP and it's good for us to be vocal about them but I do agree that these concerns are all qualified by their context and that certainly Swordsman are not alone in a lot of these concerns.

Message Edited by StGabriel on 04-06-2004 04:48 PM

---

Very well said. Give me an unarmored opponent and ill tear him up but i've lost count on the number of people that when I swing at them I do a nice 40 points to the mind pool and if they are like me thats gonna be regened before I can hit it again (3000 willpower at times rocks).

One thing though, PvE ill take swordsman over pikeman anyday, in pvp its a whole other story... I'll gladly take the nice loot lances they can get over my 45 damage per hit weapons.