Swordsman Archive
Thread: Combat Balance Delays
Noc-turnal
Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:00 am
#14
APEist_theReb wrote:
As a long-time swordsman i would like to see a new ap3 weapon, or atleast change one of our existing weapons to ap3. So basically im agreeing with your comment on this issue stgabe.
I also completely agree with stgabe's thoguhts on the bleed issue and lack of variety in our specials.
but i can i complain really, no hehe. We are the king of pve, and if you know how to fight with swordsman you can be an awesome pvp'r.
Swordman can be a great PvP'r but it is hard to get it to shine, and much external effort on our part to pull it off perhaps is the problem. Saying that i also want to point out the issues of moves if we do get other moves it would have to be considered very well. If swordman given Stun move couple it with intimidate we would pretty much nonifield most of the enermy defense. whiles that sounds cool it's probably too much. A balance of moves is really need to be considered
Bleeds is a difficult one as we cant be the only one who has bleed fix so it would be a general thing rather than swordman thing.
AP3 weapon would give us abit more option again a delicate balance we cant have a AP3 weapon that has too high of stats that upsets the game and nonifield out good weapons
SlippMercato
Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:32 am
#15
True, but I think our niche shouldn't be in bleeds, but in extreme damage output. I still think that a meditate "state" (just like powerboost for tka) where our damage output goes up, defenses go down and adds state effects to our attacks. Whether KD, Dizzy, Stun, Blind, Intimidate (that'd be kinda neat).
Either that or you take the opposite track. Give us a meditate state that decreases damage that we take by a percentage. With the Armor nerf upcoming it'd be nice if we could reduce damage by.. 25%? 30%. So we're in our composite tin cans and we still have the ability to take damage at a our current state.
APEist_theReb
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:28 am
#16
Noc i got back on this game not to long ago. template, items, everything **edit**ed up since my cousin got on a messed around a few times. +18 in speed....gone.
i have no tapes other than accuracy which bring my accuracy to 144. thats +9sea andmaster brawler. i jumped back into the pvp world about 5 or 6 days ago. after day one i havnt died once, facing dot users, gank squads, jedi and the gtef'rs that help the jedi, and huge gtefing groups. i am not speed capped.
i dont think it takes that much effort. 2 high kinetic and everything else resist hunting suits. 1 stun helmet and 1 stun chest. 1 imperial psg. 1 scythe (hardest thing to get). 2 gammorean battle axes (just 1 will do to, i just got my second back 2 days ago) take one of ur hunting suits and swithc out head and chest with stun, and bam ur all set.
there are specific moves that you should use while figthing specific professions and profession builds.
for example. against a tka who has capped defense and 90% resist armor, and who is as buffed as they come, is fairly impossible to damage, and their toughness playsbig part too. what do you do??
first off come into fight with gammorean battle axe out and ready, of course intimidate 1/2 him a few times on the charge, spam hit 3 until u get the dizzy on. that should probly take around 10 or so hit3's but ull still be in good condition, and now uve put a pretty hefty disease on him, since uve been whackin on him iwth hit 3's. now switch to ur other gammorean battleaxe. spam lunge 1/2 untill u get the knockdown. now that will also take about 10 lunge's to accomplish, but now u got a REALLY hefty disease going on him (youve been worsening the disease thru all the hits). switch to scythe and see if u can bring his mind down at all. if the answer is no, just wait. no specials no nothing. just reapply the diseases in the same manner as before. his canape runs out... if he started fight with say 3k mind it should be around 1/2 or maybe less from disease. then just head hit 2 till death.
now they could try to warcry meditate disease off, but now that dots break warcry its very unlikely, and the whole purpose behind the diseasing is not so you can win, its so you can end the fight faster.
eat travel biscuits for kites in player cities, hehe on ur server that shoul dhelp.
PadiOne
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:16 am
#17
IMO, the only thing specifically in need of change to the swordsman profession is weapons. Right now, we are a two-trick pony. All we use is PH and Scythe. I'd like to see an ap2 or ap3 weapon that does energy or electric dmg.
The bleed issue is a core combat systems issue. It's not a swordsman problem.
If we are giving out input to core combat problems, I'd like to offer the following:
Bleeds should be bumped back up in strength, but also made subject to resists. You shouldn't be able to bleed a 100% energy resist mob with a scout blaster. I'm still amazed that you can hit a bleed on an ns initiate then go up and punch it with no brawler skills to kill it after it dropped to 1 ham.
I think that all profs should have weapons in the ap2 and ap3 categories, but as the ap goes up, the min dmg would drop as well. This would make for a less reliable dmg range. I also think that the bonus of using an ap3 weap on an ap 1 target should go away. Realistically higher ap weaps could quite often do less dmg. This would provide a greater incentive to use more than one weapon. There would be no 'best' weapon for a profession. It'd become what weapons is best for the job.
FallOut1214
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:01 am
#18
Personally I'd like to see the Dizzy on 2HandHit3 stick more often. While Area3 is great, having Dizzy and Posture Down tied to the same move isn't always beneficial i.e. the Posture Down lands but the Dizzy doesn't and I've essentially wasted my posture change for the next 30 seconds.
Also, aren't some of our moves supposed to Blind? It says so in the description...
I'd also like to see an Stun added to either Spin2 or Sweep2 to break the redundancy of those moves. After all, we are smacking them around with a giant frickin war hammer....
AriasImmortal
Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:33 pm
#19
I've got mixed feelings about this.
The bad: More months of this game being DoT wars.
The good: More months of jedi not being better than me, as they will without a doubt be after the Combat Rebalance.
that said, this is an overall horrible move, but it is to be expected. I for one would rather have GCW/combat revamp before JtLS, but like hell SOE cares about this game.
The bad: More months of this game being DoT wars.
The good: More months of jedi not being better than me, as they will without a doubt be after the Combat Rebalance.
that said, this is an overall horrible move, but it is to be expected. I for one would rather have GCW/combat revamp before JtLS, but like hell SOE cares about this game.
StGabriel
Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:54 am
#21
Uhh, yeah. 
I can never keep those two straight. It just makes more sense to me that they would be named the other way around.
StGabe.
I can never keep those two straight. It just makes more sense to me that they would be named the other way around.
StGabe.
SVX007
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:13 am
#22
Im a new swords man so my thoughts certainly dont hold the same weight as the veterans but this is my opinion on somethings
PVE were a dominant class I came here from fencer becasue there is things I wanted to do in game, I Guess my opinion is that part of balance to me is that i traded PVP prowess for PVE prowess. NowI do duel with my guildies and Swords isnt bad if your carefull and think a bit you wont get walked on but it isnt as easy as being a Fencer. I did PVE as a fencer and it isnt bad but man splitting wigs with a hammer goes allot smoother. Im afraid that what people are looking for in the combat balance is fro all combat profs to be equal but to me that just isnt what the game is about. we were all given 250pts to make a template with and our choices have to have advantages and disadvantages.
The out of range thing Id like to see fixed,
Bleeding I wish it was worth the mind hit but it isnt.
Id like to see different weapons but im sure every class would. I mean the whole swords think using hammers is like the fencer whose weapon of choice is a crowbar or baton. I also think its ok that we dong tet allot of damage types compared to the ranged guys since we still have the advantage that most mobs get right in your face anyway. I consider that another part of template choices
As far as general combat goes, the weapon switching thing is annoying to say the least but of its gonna stay can we see it in our combat que, its bad when you hit the fast key but arent sure if it worked so you hit it again and then endup with no weapon in your hand. a little weapon ghange in the que would do nicely.
hmm well I guess thats it for me Im not a big PVP type so the whole DOT thing just doesnt matter to me much. Sorry to the PVP tuypes but a rebalance would be nothing more than a bit of time before the same group that causes probelms with the system now does so again.
-shadow-
Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:56 pm
#23
Hey Gabe will you be going to that Combat Rebalance Summit thing that Minerunner is talking about on the fencer fourms?
KindredUK
Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:57 am
#24
StGabriel wrote:
Bleed Experience
Problem:Another issue that is tied to the above issue is that bleeds do not yield experience. In a game system where all experience is based on damage, this makes bleeds largely useless for mastering of a profession.
Solution: If bleeds ever are to be meaningful again, we'll need some way for them to yield experience as well.
Hmm, I thought I was going crazy as I grinded swordsman for 14hrs straight, but I could swear at one point I tried bleeds a few times and noticed:
1) Bleeds Stack
I was 100% sure they couldn't after reading the DoT nerf that affected bleeds, but sure enough mindhit1 and mindhit2 both ticked on seperate timers to each other. Either I initially read this wrong with regards to the nerf, or it has changed.
2) Bleeds Give Experience
As above, when testing the bleeding stacking I let a Piket go down to near 0 mind before finishing it off, and got the usual ~4k XP. Again I was sure this was changed in the nerf a while back.
I'll test again tonight to make sure I wasn't imagining things....
comandobob
Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:25 am
#25
Co-valent wrote:
StGabriel wrote:
Scythe Quest Issues
Problem: The scythe is only available through quests. It is the one completely new weapon that is not available through some mechanism that is renewable. Players can do the known scythe quests twice and then no knew scythes will be available to them. Non-swordsmen can get schematics and trade them but this is not a renewable source of schematics either as they too can only do this once.
Solution: Introduce a quest or drop for the scythe schematic that is renewable, that is, that can through hard work, be accessed repeatedly. Even if this were only something to be "camped" it would be an improvement. One suggestion would be to add Scythe Schematics to the loot tables for Singing Mountain Clan or Nightsister NPCs. These could be rare and still this would allow a new venue for obtaining scythes.
Can I perhaps suggest Axkva Min herself? As if you read the Treasure Map, it says it was a Treasure Belonging to her, and so would therefore make sense if she dropped it, perhaps with a similar rarity to the Nightsister Energy Lance.
NO i would say go with the singing mountain sister as AXKva min is so camped all ready it is a pain to get any loot are every able to kill her if we on are server what to try kill her most have to stay up after restart to try 4am and every then she still camped , the singing mountain sister drop nothing of worth at hte moment so it be nice to have them drop something
MilkToast
Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:40 am
#26
StGabriel,
Haven't you and other correspondants been submitting lists of change requests for months and months in the form of top 10 lists, etc? I'm concerned that gathering more information is just another delay tactic on the part of Sony. Theyshould have more than enough information bynow about what the problems are, why don't they just stop tallking and actually start fixing things?
I will conjucture that the answer is because they've moved most of the developers onto JTL and there's no one to do the work.