Swordsman Archive
Thread: No matter how good, 2h curved is better
Well, last night I bought a slew of two handed cleavers and powerhammers, the best our server has seen so far. Had them sliced and the best out of the lot resulted in..
powerhammer
94 - 421 @ 4.3 speed (33% slice in speed)
125 - 559 @ 6.0 speed (34% slice in damage)
cleaver
134 - 295 @ 3.3 speed (32% slice in damage)
102 - 224 @ 2.4 speed (27% slice in speed)
While, the powerhammer with 559 damage hits incredibly hard (hit for over 5k a few times, and I know it can hit harder)the negative bonuses makes it infrequent, combined with the delay on the weapon, it just doesn't stand up to my 2h curved sword (78 - 322 @ 2.6 speed, another is 58 - 241 @ 1.9 speed).
Have two more skills to go till master swordsman so the effectiveness of the cleaver and powerhammer may change but right now I can kill mobs30% faster with the two handed curved, either one, but the 322 damage is my choice because the +speed from master techniques makes the weapon much closer to the 1.9 and the 1.9 doesn't really get much benefit from the +speed.
The cleaver, while it hits more consistantly because of the lesser difference in min damage vs max damage, is still slower with less max damage then the two handed curved. It's saving grace really is theHAM cost because it's marginally less, but in regular fighting it's not worth the difference due to lower dps.
Some numbers..
Spamming mobs with mind hit 3 using the damage sliced power hammer, the average hit was for 2500, the low was 900 and the high was 5300 every 6.0 delay. HAM costs were huge on health but didn't touch action or mind so I would have to gear my character for more health to make this a viable full time weapon. I'll use the weapon for PVP and for special cases where Kenetic is highly blocked but Blast is wide open. I'll need to check out logging to see what the dps really is.
Spamming mobs with mind hit 3 using the damage sliced two handed curved, the average hit was for 1400, the low was 500, and the high was 2400 every 2.6 delay. HAM costs were medium on the mind pool and action pool but my character is geared for it so it was less of an impact then the hammer. I feel that I could hit more times and faster with less overall ham cost with the 2handed curved then with the powerhammer butI'll probably deal more damage with my HAM bar at the cost of time.
The two handed cleaver had some hopes but overall I look at it as a merge between a two-handed axe and a curved sword. It's just not there and really doesn't have anything going for it other then a steadier damage deal out and lower HAM costs but there are ranged penalties. I admit that I didn't use the cleaver as much as the others so still need to test it's viability, but prelim results shows that 2h curved is king.
Anyhow, just thought I would share some findings.. Powerhammer really needs to get some enhancements either reduction in speed, lower ham costs or more damage higher armor peircing.
i've a power hammer like yours (125 - 559 @ 6.0 speed (34% slice in damage)), and i can max hit w/ tohit3 for 10k dmg.
I've to tell u that power hammer as master Heavy Swordman hit every 2.5-3 sec (cos u have a lot of melee speed bonuses), and no suffer of miss hit cos u have at master a +110 in accurancy.
I agreed that 2handed is a great weapon .. but as Master i prefer the power hammer, cos he grant a lot of damage w/ mind bleeding too, w/ a little loss in speed but not so important.
W/ some good power-up (30%health cost 15%speed for example) u'll have the best weapon available atm. But i agreed w/ u that PH is a good weapon only for the Master.
DPS's:
Power hammer 1: 60
Power hammer 2: 57
Cleaver 1: 65
Cleaver 2: 67
2 hand curved 1: 76
2 hand curved 2: 78
Obviously you can see 2 hand curved is better. The only thing that could potentially change this is if a speed cap is hit with the 2 hand curved or armor penetration. I know armor penetration on the 2 hand curved and powerhammer is medium, not sure about the cleaver. I'd like to see the ham usage on these 6 to get a dps per point of ham, but just the speed / damage show the issue.
This was calculated with average damage from the damage variance divided by speed.
The 2 hand curved's are still better.
I would expect a nerf to the 2HCS...use it now, while it's still awesome. The PH's merit is against mobs that are vulnerable to Blast. In PVP, it's also killer, due to its 1-hit-wonder capability, and the fact that most player-made armor is vulnerable to Blast. I kinda don't like the 2HCS for PvPing, maybe it's just me.
The totally "gimp" weapon is the Cleaver. Overshadowed by the 2HCS AND the PH, it really has no use. I do expect a nerf to the 2HCS...I foresee it going from AP 2 to AP 0...and that will make the Cleaver the overall best weapon to use routinely (although, honestly, I'd rather the Cleaver get nerfed and sent back down to Advanced 2H...the 2HCS just looks so **edit** cool). I seriously hope that I'm 100% wrong...I do love the 2HCS.
I don't think we should be disappointed in the PH, though...none of the weapons with Certs in the Elite professions are good routine-use weapons, they're niche weapons, useful and very powerful in certain situations. The Stun Baton for Fencers, the Vibro Lance for Pikemen, the Vibro Knuckler for TKA (they add damage at the expense of HAM, really a niche use)...they're all weapons that are strong in their specific uses, but not good for all-the-time use.
If max skill yields a 70% reduction in round time (does it?) then the powerhammer is probably the way to go in the end. A 1.9 speed 2H curved* .30 yields a swing time of .57, or well below the minimum swing time anyway. The 2.4 speed cleaver would be .72 round time, also below minimum, whereas the 4.3 speed powerhammer would be 1.29, still doing full DPS.
Assuming it's really a 70% reduction in swing time at Master Swordsman, that is.
Cause then you have:
94-421 @ 1.29 = 199 DPS (powerhammer)
102-224 @ 1 = 163 DPS (cleaver)
58-241 @ 1 = 149 DPS (2H curved)
Also if you look at the numbers reported the cleaver has a better dps than the power hammer.
What's the AR on the PH. Remember AR 2 vs AR 0 is a +56% damage bonus, so factor that into DPS.
The only player armors vulnerable to blast are Tantel & Bone, neither of which is common.
The speed cap of 1.0 is only an issue if your weapon speed slowed down by a special move is also hitting 1.0. Pistol users use stopping shot for example, their slowest highest damage dealer to still achieve high DPS wtih 1.0 speed pistols.
(134 + 295) / 2 = 214.5 avg damage
speed of 1 sec
214.5 / 1sec = 214.5