Swordsman Archive
Thread: A Swordsmans view of Jedi
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AriasImmortal
Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:09 pm
#1
Well... In the last few months I have been receiving conflicting opinions on the Jedi profession in SWG. Some people think they are overpowered and are the best class in the game, others (generally Jedi themselves) think they are underpowered, and as far as I've seen no one seems to think they are a balanced profession. This is an extremely polarized debate, and I've decided to ask the Swordsmen on this forum what their thoughts are.
Do you think Jedi is too powerful, not powerful enough, or balanced? And what are your reasons for thinking what you do?
In my opinion, Jedi are powerful but are easily beaten. No armor and relying on what basically amounts to a 4th HAM bar for healing/specials makes them easy foes, but their virtually unresistable damage type and very nice combat moves coupled with being the only profession that can reliably mind heal makes them tough opponents. But to an experienced melee PvPer, Jedi are quite simple to defeat 1v1 (if you're fighting more than 2 jedi you probably should have brought some Jedi of your own) and their LS damage doesn't guarantee a win.
Against ranged players, I will agree that saber block (being a percentage mod) is a little over the top. Ranged players only have a 15% chance to hit an MLS jedi, and no amount of accuracy will change that.
So gimme your thoughts...
Do you think Jedi is too powerful, not powerful enough, or balanced? And what are your reasons for thinking what you do?
In my opinion, Jedi are powerful but are easily beaten. No armor and relying on what basically amounts to a 4th HAM bar for healing/specials makes them easy foes, but their virtually unresistable damage type and very nice combat moves coupled with being the only profession that can reliably mind heal makes them tough opponents. But to an experienced melee PvPer, Jedi are quite simple to defeat 1v1 (if you're fighting more than 2 jedi you probably should have brought some Jedi of your own) and their LS damage doesn't guarantee a win.
Against ranged players, I will agree that saber block (being a percentage mod) is a little over the top. Ranged players only have a 15% chance to hit an MLS jedi, and no amount of accuracy will change that.
So gimme your thoughts...
AlonzoTheGreat
Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:48 pm
#2
i have never been beaten by a jedi...
i have beaten a sentinel 3... tough match but i used everything i had
kinda sad
Message Edited by AlonzoTheGreat on 09-16-2004 11:48 PM
ivossk
Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:45 pm
#3
They are too strong to ranged, to weak to brawlers. it is kinda rediculous that they have such a hard time hiting melee def stackers with thier LS,even at master. Also, the block skill is not strong enough against melee, and thier state defences are a joke. A jedi can never get the kind of def a stacker can get, but that is countered by the fact that their KD is only defendable by force powers. Over all, they need to make it so only LS toughness provides toughness to LS or something to balance out the brawler issue more.
ScarMaker
Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:51 am
#4
I think all jedi think they r under powered. They seem to think that nothing should be able to stand in their way and i can c their point but if they were, what would be the point? I think everything is about right atm although maybe they could use better armor.
As for swordsman, ive not come across anything yet that i haven't been able to kill apart from a krayt that i needed a hand from a rifleman and tka for.
Fezzig
Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:04 am
#5
I was one of the first Jedi in the game.
I'm a very experienced PvPer both Jedi and non.
I spent 5 monthsnon-stop grinding to 4444 Dark Jedi Guardian.
I spent 3 days grindinga melee template on my main.
I could easily destroy my Jedi with my main, or at least make him /forcerun with his saber between his legs.
CorporateDan
Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:31 am
#6
I would say they are powerful. They might not be able to kill everyone in seconds, but they can kill all ranged professions with ease, CMs/docs with ease, and have a hard time with melee. If the melee person is stacked, has good weapons, can heal, and has dot weapons the Jedi will have a very tough time. Some jedi are a lot better then others. I have seen jedi that get crushed by melee in seconds, and others that either have a stalemate or slowly kill them.
An experienced jedi in melee pvp can defeat most foes. A jedi has no armor, which means more willpower. They don't need focus food like me (Trandoshan). They have a slight advantage in HAM values, 1100 willpower, 1100 mind, and the rest in action health. They can take a synsteak, and when that runs out take another, and have a citros snowcake for accuracy. If they are a novice brawler and master LS they can do a stun/intimidate combo reducing the opponents damage to 1/3. They can warcry every 30 seconds to gain 10 secs to heal, intimidate, or regain force. With a mix of defender and enhancer they can reduce the force drain in a fight, and have overall decent defenses. With healing they can heal almost everything. This is just one template a jedi can be to survive a melee stacker. They already can kill all ranged players, which gives them a huge advantage in large raids.
I am not a jedi, but these are my personal observations.
An experienced jedi in melee pvp can defeat most foes. A jedi has no armor, which means more willpower. They don't need focus food like me (Trandoshan). They have a slight advantage in HAM values, 1100 willpower, 1100 mind, and the rest in action health. They can take a synsteak, and when that runs out take another, and have a citros snowcake for accuracy. If they are a novice brawler and master LS they can do a stun/intimidate combo reducing the opponents damage to 1/3. They can warcry every 30 seconds to gain 10 secs to heal, intimidate, or regain force. With a mix of defender and enhancer they can reduce the force drain in a fight, and have overall decent defenses. With healing they can heal almost everything. This is just one template a jedi can be to survive a melee stacker. They already can kill all ranged players, which gives them a huge advantage in large raids.
I am not a jedi, but these are my personal observations.
Noc-turnal
Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:07 pm
#7
my anwser to this is that it is entirely depending on the jedi template. Ones that picks up sabre master is very difficult indeed and does huge damage with thier 4th gen light sabre and the mega moves they get. Put force healer and defender on top of it you end up with stupidly power character. that even a brawler type with the best of toys will have a hard time staying alive. These jedi template are not solo-able.
However i can solo other knight level jedi that doesnt have the sabre master in thier template very well. chased one around theeds till she ran out of FS even. If they cant pump out the big damage they dont pose much problem for a killed brawler. keep them busy with status and what not. from what "i" noticed they cant choose what status to heal off first. unless they have the heal all version =/
like i said it is entirely depending on thier template, some can be easy, some can be a challange and some are just plain No No to solo. so i dont think jedi are unbalanced/too powerful but i do think some jedi template are unbalance, far more effective than others
pikeman411
Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:41 pm
#8
i think thay should stay un balanced cause it is the hardest prof to get i dont think i should see a TKM killing jedi even though i have heared of it happen i dont think it is right
AriasImmortal
Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:42 pm
#9
hmmm... I disagree, all the Jedi PvPers on Intrepid have MLS in their templates, and I can beat every one of them, and have beaten the only master defender on intrepid (MLS/MDefender/Healer 4-0-0-4 temp). Jedi are grossly overpowered against ranged and grossly underpowered against melee, IMO.
Noc-turnal wrote:
my anwser to this is that it is entirely depending on the jedi template. Ones that picks up sabre master is very difficult indeed and does huge damage with thier 4th gen light sabre and the mega moves they get. Put force healer and defender on top of it you end up with stupidly power character. that even a brawler type with the best of toys will have a hard time staying alive. These jedi template are not solo-able.
However i can solo other knight level jedi that doesnt have the sabre master in thier template very well. chased one around theeds till she ran out of FS even. If they cant pump out the big damage they dont pose much problem for a killed brawler. keep them busy with status and what not. from what "i" noticed they cant choose what status to heal off first. unless they have the heal all version =/
like i said it is entirely depending on thier template, some can be easy, some can be a challange and some are just plain No No to solo. so i dont think jedi are unbalanced/too powerful but i do think some jedi template are unbalance, far more effective than others
ImpCrusher
Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:50 pm
#10
Underpowerd, but shouldn't exist in this game.
Underpowered because any Jedi "should" be able to destroy anygroup of "normal" sentials they wanted to, especially one on one.Of course, there are bounty hunter exceptions and things of that nature.
With that said, I'm still sticking with (and have since day 1) that this game takes place during a time when there would be no Jedi running around without Vader or Sidious on their butts immediately. Especially at somewhere like a starport, showing off their lightsaber to all the gawkers..... Vader would be there in about 9 seconds, destroying everything in sight. But, I digress.
Noc-turnal
Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:59 pm
#11
AriasImmortal wrote:
hmmm... I disagree, all the Jedi PvPers on Intrepid have MLS in their templates, and I can beat every one of them, and have beaten the only master defender on intrepid (MLS/MDefender/Healer 4-0-0-4 temp). Jedi are grossly overpowered against ranged and grossly underpowered against melee, IMO.
i'm not sure what it is you disagreeing with me on. My anwser to the question was depending on the Jedi template, they can be very weak and they can also be strong. just because you can beat them doesnt mean A) they are a good PvPer nor B) that the template itself wasnt good enough to win. In PvP theres still player eliment that makes up for the template differences, thats the fun of it.
Devs have said Jedi are not supose to be all mighty and are supose to have a tougher time fighting melee profession rather than ranged. so in that sense the devs meet thier goals. the goal being right or not is a different story. I never liked the idea of having Jedi in game, as it has been said they should be able to just defeat any nomal joe in the galaxy. which is what we supose to be playing as. Theres already enough games where you play as a jedi why does swg needs to be another one? but now jedi are here to stay and the best way for the devs to deal with it is not to make them be able to kill anybody so easily
AriasImmortal
Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:54 pm
#12
You said that it is entirely dependant on the Jedi's template... that is what I'm disagreeing with. From what I've seen it's a combination of how they PvP and their equipment. The only jedi I've lost to or have had problems are the ones using 4 -9 45 min/max+ pearls/crystals in their 4th gen polearms.
Jaxin_Riens
Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:58 am
#13
I have only had the opurtunity to fight a jedi 1 on 1 once his template was master lightsaber defender 0400 healer 4004 enhace 0004 and i had a tough time fighting him, my hammer matched his saber for damage and i would have lost if i hadn't pulled a dkd out my ass with the dizzy from hit three and a posture down. If the jedi had used a single saber and attacked my head i would have lost, but he used that stupid polarm and i was a ble to heal damage. Any other fights with jedi were always in group pvp during raids and in those raids jedi are about as dangerous as a rifleman before the force run nerf. IMO jedi are balanced but not balanced now balanced for post combat revamp which is why they are underpowered vs melee.
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