Swordsman Archive
Thread: Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the purposed FENCER CHANGE, Post your thoughts comparing to Swordsman!
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Vincentarasin
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:25 am
#1
Zion, a community elder, is purposing this radical change on the Fencing forums, he feels its the only way to fix our Greatly Broken profession. As Swordsmen, the Gods of Heavy combat, Please post your feedback regarding what this would do to Swg if such a change was implimented! Hold Naught back!
ZionHalcyon wrote:
First, let me say this:
There are those here who are happy being stick-weilders and doing puny damage compared to everyone else, and are such because they fear if we actually were made competitive, we would be nerfed. Please be sure to note these people as such when they post, as they are very obvious. And if you dare to question them, they get very insulting and defensive. I only bring up this point because such people should be left out of an honest discussion such as this, as the majority of us have expressed our displeasure at our weapon selection. So ignore these people when they post - I can't tell you to do that, but I am asking for the sake of keeping honest discussion alive in this thread regarding issues most of us feel strongly about. Thank you.
*edited for formatting to make it more readable.*
How I would rebalance the Fencer Weapons
Keep in mind, I would not mess with damage on most items... a weapons rebalance for fencer would actually be a simple matter:
AP2 Weapons
Master Sword (New)
AP 1 Weapons
Vibroblade
Ryyk Blade
Rantok
Light Foil (New)
AP0 Weapons
Survival Knife
Stone Kinfe
Dagger
Curved Sword
Stun baton
Gaffi Stick
Sword
See, now we have a balance of AP 0 and AP 1, and the AP will make up for the damage.
However, I would like to see the certifications moved up as well.
Currently, the sword, curved sword, and gaffi are all in 1 Handed weapons 1 in brawler, with the Rantok, Ryyk, and Vibroblade going down that tree. I would like to see the Ryyk and the Rantok moved up to Novice Fencer, and Curved Sword moved up to 1 Handed weapons 3, the Sword moved up to 1 Handed Weapons 2, and the Gaffi moved up to 1 handed weapons 4, along with the vibroblade moving up from 1 handed weapons 2 to 1 handed weapons 4. I would also like to see the dagger moved up to 1 Handed weapons 1, and leave the survival Knive and looted stone knife for the novice brawler.
So the shakedown for Certifications for Brawler level to Novice Fencerwould be this:
NOVICE FENCER
Stun Baton(AP 0)
Ryyk Blade (AP 1)
Rantok (AP 1)
MASTER ONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 4)
Gaffi Stick (AP 0)
Vibro Blade (AP 1)
EXPERTONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 3)
Curved Sword(AP 0)
ADVANCEDONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 2)
Sword(AP 0)
INTERMEDIATEONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 1)
Dagger(AP 0)
NOVICE BRAWLER
Survival Knife (AP 0)
Stone Kinfe (AP 0)
I believe this makes a lot of sense in terms of weapon progression, and also in terms of AP. With certain weapons receiving an AP of 1, we have no need to increase the damage. Also, in terms of the Rantok vs the Ryyk, I would make the Rantok have a little bit better stats, since it is a limited quest item - people will still use the Ryyk because it is more easily attainable.
This also solves our issues of wanting to use swords - by moving the Ryyk and Rantok up to AP 1, it gives us useful swords that help with the feel of the profession.
Moving into the Fencer category beyond Novice, I would like to see a Lightfoil, as Oogami put forth, but in the Advanced Box of Stances and Grips. I think it makes sense there, and it should be AP 1. Plus, it gives the fencer another sword to play with. I think the damage for the foil should range from 230min to 270 Max... Not as much damage as a gaffi, but it has the AP1 with it, plus it establishes itself as a higher tiered weapon. I think in this case we should have a different damage type as well - energy - since it essentially is a poor man's lightsaber.
Finally, the Master blade. I have said this before, but I have refined this, and here is what I think:
The Master Blade is a sword only available to a Master Fencer, and is non-tradeable. Nor can you have more than one in any of your inventories. To get another one, your only option is to destroy the first. The Master Blade will be the only fencer weapon that is AP 2. In addition, an optional component for the blade will be one DOT attack, which is given to the blade by using a DNA sample from a Bio Engineer - If the Creature sampled uses a particular DOT attack, then the blade will inherit it. It will be unlimited use, and the potency, strength, and damage will all depend on the quality of the DNA sample.
Before anyone starts saying this will bring Nerfs upon us, thus far this weapon is no different than a Nightsister lance, Grooved 2 hand sword, and countless other looted and craftable weapons that use special schematics. The only thing is that this one gets to be ours. To get the sword, you need to seek out a Fencing master NPC, who will send you on missions to complete. The last mission will be to defeat his prized pupil in front of him. You win, and he gives you aone useschematic for the Master Sword.
You take that to any weaponsmith, and they can make the sword for you (note from earlier you can also bring the DNA sample to the WS to add a DOT to the sword.) Also, once you complete the quest, you can go back to the master at any time and request a schematic, but you will only get another one a) If you do not have the master sword in your possession (yes, you need to destroy yours) and b) you must fight his prized pupil again. This will keep the number of swords in circulation down, and will also stop profiteering from the sword. *Note* When the WS makes the sword, he can only trade the sword to a master fencer, after which the sword becomes untradable).
The Master Sword will have openings for a dna sample (for DOT), a rancor tooth, AND a vibromotor, all OPTIONAL. If you make the sword with no extras, the standard damage in my eyes should be between 300 min- 370 max. All DOT related things other than use will be dependant on the creature the DNA sample is looted from, and the quality of the DNA (note - the DNA is optional, thus so is the DOT attack).
Such a blade will be for masters only, and will add to the lore of fencers.
So there you have it - a quick and easy way to rebalance fencer. Even without the 2 new weapons, the rebalance I put forward would solve a lot of weapon issues for fencer. But for those of you who are looking for more from our weapons - what do you think?
Message Edited by ZionHalcyon on 04-20-2004 03:45 PM
Shadusdarkmour
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:39 am
#2
hi longtime fencer couple months as swordsman. Personally i find that post to be utterly ridculous.Fact is Fencer is low damage for a reason. Their high defenses can only be justified by having a weaker offense. Any non Fotm fencer realizes this and should want this change because of balance. Heck even some of fotm should realize the problem such a change causes. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
Syzygy-Gorath
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:45 am
#3
One thing that doesn't seem to be addressed in this suggestion is how these changes to weapons would affect the placement of special attacks. A brief example: swordsmen (AP2) get a dizzy-capable attack at Tier 4 Elite, Teras Kasi (AP1) get a dizzy-capable attack at Tier 1 Elite, Fencers (AP0)get a dizzy-capable attack at Tier 3 Basic. Given that all three of these professions recieve a posture changing attack at Novice Basic this presents something of a disparity that is made up for, in part, by weapon AP ratings and average damage ratings.
In order to rebalance the fencer weapons as Zion suggests the special attack placements would also have to be repositioned accordingly. In addition, I am no more in favor of Fencers receiving AP2 weapons than I am Swordsmen recieving AP3 weapons—the way I see it there is a clear progression within the brawler elite professions in terms of armor penetration capabilities, and with the possible exception of reversing Teras Kasi and Fencers, I believe it should remain that way. Unarmed should be the attack least able to penetrate armor, followed by one-handed, followed by two-handed, followed by polearms—in other words, Teras Kasi should be AP0, Fencer AP1, Swordsman AP2, Pikeman AP3. To me, that just makes sense.
In addition, this proposal only deals with the offensive side of Fencer. This would again leave an unbalance, as Fencers have defenses far superior to those of Swordsmen or Pikemen. In short, while an interesting proposal, this would do far more harm than good in its present state, given its focus only on weapons. No one thing can be 'rebalanced' without taking all of these other factors into account.
skinner422
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:46 am
#4
Swordsman and pikeman should be the only melee classes with ap2 weapons. The rest of the changes look reasonable, but the 'master sword' is just too overpowered 300-370 ap2. The scythe I just had made was only 192-363 before the damage slice. Also, a master fencer has +90 1 handed speed, whereas a master swordsman only has 75 2 handed speed. He'd hit is higher damge sword 2.5 times as fast. We are suppose to be the "heavy swordsman."
comandobob
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:49 am
#5
aye swordman and pike should be only melee class that get AP2 and higher also the damage 300-370max is better then alot of are swords so i think these two point are not good but the rest is ok
DarkBShadow
Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:13 am
#6
Ya i donot like the master weapon idea. one it has a dot is ap2 and has higher damage then any of our kinetic weapons. which is all but one. And teh fact is No fencer weapon should do as much damage as a sword or pike do. They get speed and defences but sacrific AP2 and damage.
The only way i can see a fencer blade with that type of damage would be to if it was Ap0.
Also there should be only 2 professions in melee that should get Ap2 and Ap3 weapons and that is Sword and Pike because both of our classes were made to do damage and be slow and have crappy defences/accuracy
Master Swordman Forever ~ Pve wh0r3 
Graael-Izzorxi
Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:17 am
#7
Feh....what is proposed is entirely ridiculus. As if fencers didn't have enough already, what with most fencers having TK as well. He's just wanting a way to make Fencer into another class that people will cry for the nerf of.
ruehs
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:10 am
#8
Swordsmen please pay no attention to this thread. The proposed Fencer change in this thread was thought up of just one of our members in the fencer community. The proposed change is just that, a proposal by someone who wants something different. The person that posted this in your thread did so just to get people to grief Zion, while Zion just posted what "he" thought would work, not what the "community" thinks would work. Again, please pay no attention to this thread as it was made just to get other professions worked up over something that would probably never happen, thank you.
Macross Starchaser, Eclipse, Phoenix Reborn
MilleniX
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:01 am
#9
Don't assume this is the thoughts of all fencers. I am a Master Fencer, and I think AP2 should stay in swordsman. I'll soon be both Master Swordsman and Master Fencer. So I can indeed have my cake and eat it to. High Defenses on one side, High Offense on the other.
Vincentarasin
Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:02 am
#10
Yes swordsman, this was thought up my a rediculious fencer that crys because he cant kill a durni, claiming its his profession.
I was just hoping the "Your a retard" from the swordsmen, they would be up in hype about their profession being nullified (it would basicly do that, the only advantage swords would have would be the blast hammer.. and well.. lets face it.. scythe is better in most cases anyway.
I figure maybe the other professions saying hes out of whack would get it through his head
Jockothemonkey
Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:46 am
#11
Everyone is entitled to their own ideas on what their class does and does not need. Trying to enlist people from other professions to flame the guy generally doesn't accomplish much. People are more willing to listen to criticism from others in their class than they are from outsiders. Btw the community elder title doesn't mean anything, all it takes to get it is a certain time length on the forums, 250+ posts and 5 proofs of purchase from crackerjacks.
Gimperial666
Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:33 pm
#12
BWAAAAAHahaHAHAHahahahaha
ok now thats rediculous...the master sword especially... These guys are probably getting dual weild... now take that into acount: 2 stunbatons! ok now thats scary... ok try this 2 ACKLAY STUNBATONS... giving them dual weild will probably double their damage output unless they are severly lacking in accuaracy.
So gee im smelling a new FOTM
ok now thats rediculous...the master sword especially... These guys are probably getting dual weild... now take that into acount: 2 stunbatons! ok now thats scary... ok try this 2 ACKLAY STUNBATONS... giving them dual weild will probably double their damage output unless they are severly lacking in accuaracy.
So gee im smelling a new FOTM
MilleniX
Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:57 pm
#13
Gimperial666 wrote:
BWAAAAAHahaHAHAHahahahaha
ok now thats rediculous...the master sword especially... These guys are probably getting dual weild... now take that into acount: 2 stunbatons! ok now thats scary... ok try this 2 ACKLAY STUNBATONS... giving them dual weild will probably double their damage output unless they are severly lacking in accuaracy.
So gee im smelling a new FOTM
Once again, that post was not made by our correspondant, nor is it supported by fencers with their head on straight. Obviously AP2 with that damage does not belong in the fencer profession. As for duel wield, other than knowing we are getting it for fencer, there has been no announcement stating we would see double the damage... yes, I am a swordsman too... will be master soon, just started picking up swordsman again yesterday. Don't assume things too quickly, and read the post before placing judgement on a profession and its supporters.
If anything, we just want to be able to have SWORDS in the fencer profession, even if they have exact mods as our sticks...
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