Swordsman Archive
Thread: The done turned SWG into EQ
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Jae_SaeBi_Ohne
Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:26 pm
#1
Just finished reading up the documentation that was posted earlier today about the CU. Without jumping to conclusions (which the title of my post did) I'm a bit disappointed.
It truly appears that they are turning Star Wars Galaxies into Everquest, only set in the SWG universe.
I for one have played EQ and EQ2 and they have nothing on SWG. I believe this CU will change not only the core combat systems but also the way you play the game as well. The word "grouping" or "group" was in the CU documents a lot. It seems that these new changes are going to push players into grouping much much more.
Even the way they described the professions is EQ-esque. You can basically take their chart and line it up with the Everquest classes/roles and they fit nicely:
Tanks: Groupmembers that hold aggro from weaker opponents. Now Pikeman, TKA, and BH will be along the lines of Fighters (Guardians, Beserkers, Paladins, Shadowknights, Brawlers, and Bruisers in EQ). They'll be needed to hold aggro and soak up damage while they deal out average damage themselves. To really take down an opponent you will need....
Scouts and Mages of course. Relatively weak on the defense, strong direct damage. From a distance -rifleman (aka Wizard/Warlock) and from up close - a Swordsman (Assassin/Ranger). Throw the commando in there as a mix of the two. If these guys start taking damage, you'll need a....
Cleric silly. Clerics use "magic" to heal damage, just like the Doctors will now. You don't need any stimpacks - just poof, you're healed. But lets round out our party with some characters that can increase our resists, debuff our opponents. Why we would need....
Bards and Illusionists. Bards cast spells on the group to buff - here we go Squad Leader. They also debuff enemies - Pistoleer and Carbineer! Need that target mezzed?! If you don't know, it's what Illusionists do, they mez and enemy so it cannot attack. Smuggler will do nicely for that.
Then we're left with a few other oddball professions. Creature Handler - why they can be like a Conjurer.... and their pet will have special abilities based on what type of magical creature it is!
Anyway, about 90% of what I read in the CU documents is taken right from EQ. The Health/Power bar in EQ is now our new HAM, with health in one and our action pool in the other. Our Hitpoints will go up in time - we cannot set them. We'll have a character sheet showing our picture and equipped items. Exactly like EQ.
At the end of the day, this makes SWG just like every other MMO out there, especially EQ. SWG was always a breath of fresh air as compared to the other MMOs. In reality what this change is going to do is 1) Make Grouping up with other players much more of a necessity and 2) turn a unique game into a more standard one.
Sony's not fooling me with this combat upgrade at all. It's a port from their EQ line of games and they're just jamming it into SWG. I do agree that some tweaks needed to be done to the battle system but I think all in all this is a bit overboard. Time will tell I suppose.
(Author's note: posted this a few places since there is no real "general swg" board)
convict-LoE-
Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:51 am
#2
While I never played EQ1, my guild did play EQ2, and your post is 100% correct.. No more will you run a mission in one minute, but it will take your group 10 minutes to do that same mission.. Thats after you get a group together with at least 1 tank, 1 healer and 1 damage dealer or DPS inEQ terms.
I do like the idea of having a diverse group, but I hate the idea I have to be in a group. I think the SWG players will also hate the fact that the game will be slowed by 90%.
Message Edited by convict-LoE- on 03-30-2005 05:53 AM
SynjinRho
Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:22 am
#3
I am interested to see if the group number changes for 20 to 6
JemyM
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:00 am
#4
Jae_SaeBi_Ohne wrote:
It truly appears that they are turning Star Wars Galaxies into Everquest, only set in the SWG universe.
And you say that in the forum for the profession that runs around with humongous swords and battlehammers in a world that was supposed to be about blasters?
I find that hillarious.
gatorloe
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:09 am
#5
LOL..it seams you read nothing of what they are saying...I agree with both of them.
JemyM
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:34 am
#6
I really cant see his point.
Most of theese things he brings up are generic components in all rpg's out there, and he didnt even bother with the "Ranged profession = Ranger" comparision as comparing devastatingenergy pulserifles with wooden projectiles that have to be loaded 1 by 1 is kinda silly.
Squad Leaders is a very unique and rare profession in SWG. They are not even close to Bards and Illusionists in how they work, and very rare.
Clerics use "magic" to heal damage? No. Clerics use divine powers to enhance other people. Run into a hospital and point at everyone in a white robe and scream "CLERIC!!!", and im sure they can give you a white robe too. Divine powers and modern medicine is very different.
Rifleman = Wizard/Warlock? Duh. Comparing the use of a supermodern weapon that can hurl out beams of concentrated energy, to the ability to control the energyfield around you is again extremely different.
Sorry. But all this is like people that see Angels and Devils in the clouds. If you try hard enough you can create a mess out of anything.
AlexPKeaton
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:11 am
#7
/agree 100% with what your saying here. Having played both, it's easy to see that this is exactly what they are doing. Just making EQ Star Wars Edition.
If the forced grouping ends up being as bad as it sounds it will be, I can see many swordsmen leaving the game. I am not purely a solo player but at least 75% of the time I have no real choice but to play alone. I play early morning EST for the most part when the server is pretty quiet, and few if any of my guildmembers or friends are on at that time. There are others around but it can easily take a full hour to find enough people at that time who want to go do the same thing as you. I became a swordsman/doc because it gave me the freedom to hunt with others when I could, and still go out and take part in some higher end content when I couldn't find anyone.
While I know that swords and some of the other more powerful professions needed some balance, and there are things that should require groups to take out, such as Elders, Krayts, etc. There needs to be rewarding high-end content that can be done individually by 1-3players and not just large groups. My personal measuring stick will be Nightsisters. I did a lot of NS hunting by myself, and while I don't expect to be able to take down Elders,Protectors, or even small groups of lesser NSby myself, anything lower should still be doable 1on1. I for one know that if after the CU I am unable to take down even the lowest of high-end NPCs/Creatures without helpthen the game will really have lost all fun for me, and really won't be worth it to pay just to play the one weekend day a week when the rest of my guild/friends are on.
SWG_Miriam
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:43 am
#8
The commonalities you list are not unique to SWG, OR EQ. They are common archetypes in the RPG genre.
Regarding combat/profession system, the only thing that makes SWG unique from the others are 90% damage mitigating armor (which is stupid), an enhancement system that allows you to have 300% larger damage bar than an unhanced person (which is stupid), an enhancement system that allows you to use any weapon, and any special moves (making them not special anymore) without any cost or penalty (which is stupid), a damage over time system that displaces skill in combat to whoever won the loot lottery, gets the first hit in, and can run the fastest (which is stupid).
Basically, everything that is currently "unique" about SWG combat is just stupid and needs to be changed. Which, coincidentally, is going to be changed.
Regarding combat/profession system, the only thing that makes SWG unique from the others are 90% damage mitigating armor (which is stupid), an enhancement system that allows you to have 300% larger damage bar than an unhanced person (which is stupid), an enhancement system that allows you to use any weapon, and any special moves (making them not special anymore) without any cost or penalty (which is stupid), a damage over time system that displaces skill in combat to whoever won the loot lottery, gets the first hit in, and can run the fastest (which is stupid).
Basically, everything that is currently "unique" about SWG combat is just stupid and needs to be changed. Which, coincidentally, is going to be changed.
MasterTexiria
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:44 am
#9
Well a combo for soloing early in the game was swordsman and CH granted it wasn't nearly as good as Swords/doc but should you as a swordsman/doc really be able to kill full grown kryats?
Little-Green-Guy
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:44 am
#10
obviously....SOE is trying to cut their overhead..by putting the 'blanket MMO SKIN" on this game. all they care about is increasing their profit margin, exponentially. more so, than they care about retaining customers in this specific game.
there is on incentive to stay in this game.
your were excactly right, the uniqueness of this game...was the thrill.
Little-Green-Guy
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:45 am
#11
btw,
yet another LIE....combat upgrade.........whatever...
they should have called it.
"We are making SWG perform - feel - look, like all our other games"
i don't see why the needed to lie. its more than obvious.
Jae_SaeBi_Ohne
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:02 pm
#12
Thanks for the responses. I must again stress how fun and unique SWG has been to me as compared to many of the other mmo's on the market. Again, I did recognize that the combat system needed some tweaks, and I'm truly hoping the solution isn't to throw in the EQ2 combat/grouping system into an already wonderful game.
Damcon
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:29 pm
#13
I have read the same CU doc as everyone else and I don't seem to be as upset as some of you. Although based on SOE's track recordup to this point, I can understand the apprehension. Maybe I am way off base but I got a little comfort from looking at the proffesion template they laid out. It will be very possible for us as swordsman to pick up a Master Swords/TKM kind of combination and have the ability to combine large amounts of damage with the ability to tank high end mobs. Throw that in with the ability of every character to heal themselves through the use of stims and I don't think our ability to solo things as it is now will be greatly effected.
I also believe that we should give them some leeway with the grouping thing. I have faith that with the above mentioned template I will be able to tank any lair/mission I choose solo. Maybe I won't be able cut a wide path through places like Fort Tuscan andother high end caves, but when you think about it, isn't thatthe way that it should be? Go hunt nightsisters, Mokk's and the like by myslef, but have to get a group together to go attack the Geo cave or Fort tuscan.
Message Edited by Damcon on 03-30-2005 01:36 PM
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