Swordsman Archive
Thread: Shift in Swordsmen Demographics
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StGabriel
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:23 am
#1
Swordsman used to be a fairly PvP-oriented profession. That was when we had the big mind bleeds (not to mention warcry+kd would stick through damage). For quite some time though we've been a PvE-dominated profession. We may not have the best defenses but against a lot of content our damage is fantastic -- and there's not much that 80% composite won't fix defensively. 
At least that's what I've noticed, lemme know if you feel otherwise.
The interesting thing is that in my time as Correspondent (as Brawler and Swordsman both) the demographic for the profession has changed significantly. It used to be that I was pretty certain that PvP changes were going to be very, very significant in terms of forum responses. Now I see PvE as more of the top priority. It used to be that I was reading lots of "how to solo a TKM" threads. Now it's, "how to solo a Krayt" or "look at this loot". Not that any of this is a bad thing -- times change and at least we still have our strengths.
Personally I try to keep both as important regardless, even though I myself am more of a PvE'er (although I definitely enjoy some PvP action time and again). If anything I think I stress PvP a tad more to try and compensate.
I was just stewing on this, and I thought I'd post on here about it. I don't necessarily have a point, but it is an interesting development for the professioin that might be worth discussing. What do you guys think? Is my appraisal of the prof accurate and what are your priorities?
StGabe.
At least that's what I've noticed, lemme know if you feel otherwise.
The interesting thing is that in my time as Correspondent (as Brawler and Swordsman both) the demographic for the profession has changed significantly. It used to be that I was pretty certain that PvP changes were going to be very, very significant in terms of forum responses. Now I see PvE as more of the top priority. It used to be that I was reading lots of "how to solo a TKM" threads. Now it's, "how to solo a Krayt" or "look at this loot".
Not that any of this is a bad thing -- times change and at least we still have our strengths. Personally I try to keep both as important regardless, even though I myself am more of a PvE'er (although I definitely enjoy some PvP action time and again). If anything I think I stress PvP a tad more to try and compensate.
I was just stewing on this, and I thought I'd post on here about it. I don't necessarily have a point, but it is an interesting development for the professioin that might be worth discussing. What do you guys think? Is my appraisal of the prof accurate and what are your priorities?
StGabe.
LordMaxx
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:35 am
#3
On chilastra the number of swordsman has defnitely balooned, because it is a loot getting profession. Heck 2hspeed tapes are going for million a point minimum often more....
We have the combat balance looming over us when buffs may be nerfed and armor should also take a huge hit. Our lack of defenses may really come into play.
StGabriel
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:43 am
#4
With the combat balance I am most concerned about our damage actually. I'm afraid we'll lose a lot of our damage benefits. It sounds like everyone is going to take a defensive hit.
I'm concerned about the changes to the speed equation. Right now Swordsman have a significant damage advantage mostly when they speed cap. When speed capped total damage is the only important thing. We have these heavy damage, heavy delay weapons that are very powerful when capped but won't be nearly as good if/when they fix that.
But on the other hand, I think the speed equation does need to be changed. It's silly that most weapons end up at 1s delay no matter what. Intended tradeoffs are not actually working.
So I hope that as speed equation changes happen we an get a lot of feedback in about our damage. I'm optimistic at this point -- with so much changing I'm hoping there will be plenty of room to ask for very specific stuff. We'll see . . .
I'm concerned about the changes to the speed equation. Right now Swordsman have a significant damage advantage mostly when they speed cap. When speed capped total damage is the only important thing. We have these heavy damage, heavy delay weapons that are very powerful when capped but won't be nearly as good if/when they fix that.
But on the other hand, I think the speed equation does need to be changed. It's silly that most weapons end up at 1s delay no matter what. Intended tradeoffs are not actually working.
So I hope that as speed equation changes happen we an get a lot of feedback in about our damage. I'm optimistic at this point -- with so much changing I'm hoping there will be plenty of room to ask for very specific stuff. We'll see . . .
Heorot
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:49 am
#5
Is it as easy to say that stun batons, dodge and later Acklay bones shifted the Swords PvP'rs over to Fencer?
You lose the mind pool specific hit,but with the emphasis of the game in PvP shifting to state attacks and defense, Fencer seems a much more viable melee prof than Swords.
Vagrantprodigy
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:53 am
#6
PVP has no point in this game. Every time I go to pvp, I get mind poisoned/diseased by a CM, then a rifleman removes the little mind I have left. It simply isn't worth decaying my armor, or getting wounds to pvp anymore.
Okin_Sin
Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:00 am
#7
Ok im gonna geuss at what the CB will bring for swordsman, note this is just a guess.
I think that melee and ranged weapons will be grouped to Heavy, Medium, and Light weapons. Im guessing that Swords/Pikeman/Rifle will all be considered Heavy weapons, Fencer/Carbines will be considered Medium, and TKA/Pistols will be LIght.
I think that Heavy will have a speed cap of one hit every three seconds, Medium every 2 seconds, and Light every second, hopefully they would adjust specials/effects/damage/accuracy to accomidate.
I think they will make swordsman hit slow for big damage. Im not sure if this will work well, cuz for effects like KD/Dizzy, your better off hitting much faster to get the effect.
I also have a feeling they will change the HAM bars to work more like your traditional MMORPG, Health is your hitpoints, Action is your special cost bar, and mind is for things like healing/throwing desease and poisons etc.
Also resists on armor will probably be drastically changed, more vulnerabilities, probably around 60% max for any particular resist.
I think there will be changes to other proffesions that will effect us to, I think docs buffs will be lowered so that no one is spamming specials all day without any cost, I think Chefs Buffs will be looked at a bit differently to compensate for all the changes.
Expect all classes to take a big hit in there damage dealing and solo ability which will effect all of pvp and pve a lot.
DarkBShadow
Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:06 am
#8
ya pvp in this game went from a top proity of mine to the least prioity. it just became usless and not fun. CM's/riflemen just ruined pvp for most people. just did not feel like getting destroyed by an enemy 64 or 98 meteres away. i mean rrelly the first time i got hit by you were deased by a human cuz he wasn't on my scrteen really annoyed me and ruined my pvp experiance from that point on.
also side note i can go hit to hit with a tkm now a days 
that is if my buffs dont drop in the middle of the fight . intimidate 2 is godly
that is if my buffs dont drop in the middle of the fight . intimidate 2 is godly
Master Swordman Forever ~ Pve wh0r3 
TheCapn2000
Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:22 am
#9
I am a former Master Bounty Hunter since right after game release...I recently switch to Swords andI have to say i have had more fun in the last month than I have had anytime previously.
Windfree
Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:23 am
#10
Hey All,
I rarely post on the boards, but after reading what the Correspondent has to say, I wasnt to happy. I agree with the speed cap, but It has to be all around Rifles/Pike/Swords. I am now doing mostly PVP with my Wookie Master Swords, Granted our armor isn't as good as the other PVP'ers but I do manage to hold my own in most scenarios, IE when not Fighting a Rifle/CM. CM's drop me like a fly, I hope the upcoming changes really help this.
I do some damage in PVP and i have 715 max PH, what I would like to see with Swords is a little more rouded Specials. Make Sweeps Attacks KD, make Area Attacks Posture down as they do now. Mind hits should definalty get a chance to Dizzy, I am wacking this guy on the head with my Hammer and he is just smiling at me.
Picture a Huge WOOKIE, pounding on your head with a hammer while you sip on some Late and spam Scatter Hit on me, hrrms something is wrong there LOL.
I dont mind the medium defenses we have, afterall we are an offensive monster in PVE, we just need a little UMPH in PVP, maybe a little more damamge, but deninatly some variation in our specials.
I am hoping they fix armor, fix CM'S, no more 1k ticks every second please!. Rifleman nothing we can do about that, if they stay 50m out they are safe, once I get a lunge2, int2, and warcry2 on them, they are toast.
PCE
Wind
I rarely post on the boards, but after reading what the Correspondent has to say, I wasnt to happy. I agree with the speed cap, but It has to be all around Rifles/Pike/Swords. I am now doing mostly PVP with my Wookie Master Swords, Granted our armor isn't as good as the other PVP'ers but I do manage to hold my own in most scenarios, IE when not Fighting a Rifle/CM. CM's drop me like a fly, I hope the upcoming changes really help this.
I do some damage in PVP and i have 715 max PH, what I would like to see with Swords is a little more rouded Specials. Make Sweeps Attacks KD, make Area Attacks Posture down as they do now. Mind hits should definalty get a chance to Dizzy, I am wacking this guy on the head with my Hammer and he is just smiling at me.
Picture a Huge WOOKIE, pounding on your head with a hammer while you sip on some Late and spam Scatter Hit on me, hrrms something is wrong there LOL.
I dont mind the medium defenses we have, afterall we are an offensive monster in PVE, we just need a little UMPH in PVP, maybe a little more damamge, but deninatly some variation in our specials.
I am hoping they fix armor, fix CM'S, no more 1k ticks every second please!. Rifleman nothing we can do about that, if they stay 50m out they are safe, once I get a lunge2, int2, and warcry2 on them, they are toast.
PCE
Wind
Numen
Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:51 am
#11
I would totally agree on the switch. I don't think it is because of swordsman changes, but more because of other professions being able to completely dominate PvP. Anyone can Master CM in a day and do more dmg than most professions in PvP. They still might die, but most people with combat professions need a little experience as to what works and what doesn't. All a CM has to do is throw some Area poisons. My only point there is that PvP is far from balance right now. As the game matured, people found those balance issues and many people have stopped trying to work around them.
As for the combat balance, I really don't know what to expect right now. I do know speed slices will probably become important, at least as much as dmg slices. The need for skill tapes will drastically go down. Weapons with huge HAM costs will have the big downside of not being able to do many specials in a row with them.
One huge thing I hope goes away with the CB is the need for NPCS like SBDs. A group of 20 people pounding on something for 5 minutes is pathetic. More HAM is not the answer, more variety in the creatures attacks and dmg IMO is. We use state changes a lot, I don't see why all high level content shouldn't do the same. Docs would again be useful in removing these.
Gorecki
Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:13 am
#12
...hmm...now that you're saying it, i can see what you mean
Eventhough i'm not reading every SINGLE thread these days, as i used to, i have to agree...
Next tothe reasons already mentioned, i guess it's also due to the fact that some louder voices of the PvP faction (shouts toHenzo 
) seem to have either left the game or changed profession.
) seem to have either left the game or changed profession.But then i've never really been a real PvP'er, so i guess i can't really judge it.
Have a nice weekend all
/bow
StGabriel
Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:41 pm
#13
Well I'm hoping things like composite being everywhere will see some adjustment. One thing I try to bring up a lot is that it is important for Swordsman to be able to actually penetrate armor. I mean we already do that ok in PvE, which is why I think we still have a PvE contingent. In PvE however, apart from having blast for turrets and AT-ST's, our armor penetration is really just not there. I'm hoping that AP2 can mean more in PvP and not just PvE and that overall we can see some improved options there for Swordsmen.
We'll see . . .
And yes, I have to think that a lot of factors, like the prevalence of stun damage and poisons/diseases also have to do with the shift.
It is interesting and difficult however in that I seek to represent the profession and its community. However if one swing of things puts all of the PvE players in one profession and all the PvP players in another, then suddenly the representation itself becomes lopsided. I don't think it's really necessarily a problem, but it's something worth noting and remembering when looking at what changes to push for. Ideally when we see more PvP "love" that will bring back the PvP players. Ideally it'd be great to be a popular profession for both.
StGabe.
We'll see . . .
And yes, I have to think that a lot of factors, like the prevalence of stun damage and poisons/diseases also have to do with the shift.
It is interesting and difficult however in that I seek to represent the profession and its community. However if one swing of things puts all of the PvE players in one profession and all the PvP players in another, then suddenly the representation itself becomes lopsided. I don't think it's really necessarily a problem, but it's something worth noting and remembering when looking at what changes to push for. Ideally when we see more PvP "love" that will bring back the PvP players. Ideally it'd be great to be a popular profession for both.
StGabe.
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