Squad Leader Archive

Hello all, sorry to stop in and rant, but I gotta get this off my chest. It may run a little long, so I apologize.

Ever since the Devs started talking about a Squad Leader type profession while the game was still being developed, that was what I wanted to do. Ive played MMO's for over 5 years now, playing everything from UO to DAoC to Everquest, and have always enjoyed leading groups on hunts.

I was extremely excited the first day I was able to put my "Novice Squad Leader" title on and while forming a group for a hunt to Dantooine heard several people say "Woah a Squad Leader!" and come along. Now, I'm no rookie to leading hunts, as I said above Ive done it for a long time. But over the course of 3 or 4 big 3-5 hour hunts with anywhere between 15-20 people in each group, I can't tell you how many people sent me private /tells telling me that it was the most profitable hunt xp-wiseand FUN wise that they had been on while playing SWG.

The Squad Leader abilities, especially the very powerful System Messages seem to give a competent Squad Leader an aura of authority that makes things run alot more efficiently.

For example, some friends and me were joining another group already in progress on Dantooine. We arrived to find half the group firing on a lair of Huurton's while the other half were being killed by the overwhelming spawn. It was utter chaos. The group leader was trying his best to coordinate his group, but was having little success. Everyone just kept doing their own thing. I very politely and tactfully sent the group leader a private /tell explaining the added benefits of a Squad Leader and offering my services to establishing order. I was concerned he would be offended, but he wasnt. He was just a guy wanting to get some XP and havea good time. So he turned leadership over to me and I began making liberal use of the System Messages to establish ground rules and procedures. Literally within 5-10minutes we were working like a well oiled machine. Very few died in the next 3 hours and everyone had a blast and gained tons of XP and I made a LOT of new friends. This was the ecstacy.

Now for the agony.

Last night a friend forms a group for Endor. He asks me to join them and lead the group, which I naturally was willing to do. We get a fair sized group together and I lay out the usual rule about only the person I assign attacking lairs. Everything is fine for about 30 minutes.

Then a certain member of the group decides that he will just do whatever. I ignored it the first couple of times, but once people started getting killed because of it, I sent him a private /tell asking him very politely not to attack the lairs and explaining the reason why in case he was a newer player and didnt know the reason.

Long story short, I end up booting him from group, then letting him back in after a few minutes.

A few minutes later, half the group is near incapacitated from a tough battle and were getting ready to camp. The same player begins attacking the lair again causing alot of creatures to spawn, leading to a trip to the cloning facility for several group members (not the one hitting the lair of course ). I sent him a /tell asking him once again not to do this and he becomes abusive. I boot him from the group again, planning on not allowing him in again.

After about 10 minutes of begging and cursing, some of the other group members ask me to give him one last chance. I agree against my better judgement and reivinite him telling him that if there is another incident, hes gone for good. He quits the group and becomes extremly abusivetrying to convince the other members of the group to join him instead.

This is where being a Squad Leader works against me. This guy starts using the fact that I have the title "Squad Leader" to mean that Im pretending to lead and that hes a real leader. He harps on this for quite some time. No one joins him, but it definately put a damper on teamwork and the group wittled away.

So now that that long story is finished, have any of the rest of you run into situations where the title "Squad Leader" was used against you, whereas if you had the same abilities but a different title they wouldnt have?

My experiences as a Squad Leader so far have been overwhelmingly positive, but this has really been bothering me today. Its the first time I ever had to boot someone from a group before and I guess Im feeling a little guilty about it.

Hello,

I understand you so well and I'm pround to see that some SL can take this sort of decision. Myself, I can't, and some people in the group asked me to do it. Do not feel yourself guilty, I think that's the better things you had to do.

I will try to take model on you in my next bad hunting party

P.S: sorry for the bad english

sounds like he deserved it. you have no need to feel guilty. he probly takes 14 of the crayons, and then bitches cuz you have 2, the 2 that he doesnt have. you gave him ample warning, he caused deathes, you warned him again, he begged, and told you he would behave, but he didnt. dont sweat it, you have people to protect, and he was jeapordizing the mission. and then asked like a 9 yr old brat.

you made the right decision.

Can't say it's ever been used against me by anyone older than 7 in a serious way, unless you count things like "Whoa! A master squad leader! Hey buddy, how's it feel to waste that many skill points?"

i've had people like this before. it's just a power-tripper. 'sure you can lead the group, but i get to call the shots.'

it's easier to just ignore these people, and next time just leave them out of the group for good the first time. despite all pleas and begging you will earn more respect for just leaving them out.

an explaination to the group of 'why' they were kicked is a good thing though.

I tend to rule my groups with an Iron Fist. My regulars and most new group members appreciate it, and I send everyone that has never grouped with me before an email about how my groups run and what kinds of things will get them booted. I make certain that everyone understands the ground rules and how things will go so that if there is an incident, it isn't as if they didn't know they were gonna get the Tennesee Boot.

Hey Guys,

As a new Squadleader, i must say i was first disappointed, because i was expecting power in abilities, but i must say i am now thrilled as i noticed that Squadleaders are so much more than the abilities.. it is a way of mind, and when we get Master SquadLeader it just shows that we know how to lead and make everyone work together in the most effective way I have never heard a negative thing about us, but luckily i have yet to try a situation where i am forced to boot someone.

But i do hope that when the time comes, i will have the selfconfidence to act like Enix_Dayspringbecause that is without a doubt the SL-way.

You did good Enix_Dayspringno doubt about it.´

/Rene

You kinda messed up... when you let him back in.

As Squad Leaders, its our responsibilty to make sure everybody has fun. Barring that, its our responsibility to make sure as many members of the group have fun. If it's at the expense of one persons participation in the group, so be it.

I've kicked people for far lesser infractions. Anyone found to have negative Nym faction on Lok, for example, is booted mercilessly without exception. Its nothing personal, and I let them know that. But you can't drag everyone down for one person.

You totally did the right thing in booting him. Sorry it turned out ugly.

Jynn Asaeba

Thanks for the support guys. Its trully appreciated.

I know I did the right thing, its the only thing that COULD be done. I guess the guilt I had (Im long over it by now ) was that the incident had to happen and ruin the fun of the entire group. I could have just ignored it and avoided the confrontation part of it, but thats not what a Squad Leader does, is it?

All Squad Leaders should aspire to be true leaders, not just another player with SL skills that give the group buffs. A Squad Leaders whole purpose is to look after the well being of the group under his charge.

Thanks again for reminding me of that.

LOL!!!

You ever hear this one " Shut up Spam Leader" I get it all the time usually becuase I am trying to direct combat and ppl have zero patience. In fact 80% of the failed groups are becuase of a lack of patience. To me it seems like the majority of ppl only want my SL skills because of Mobility and when I hunt on places like endor if where not rolling in dough in 5min they dump the group and golooking for another. For me the majority of players that obey the best are the weakest.

How about some sort of skill that allows an SL to punish disobiedent characters in some fashion?

Nothing permant just temporary.

/kpduty <playername> The player is forced to sitting and peel potatoes for 120 seconds while all chat channels are disabled.

I had something similar happen before when I was leading a group on Dantooine (?)when the group wasdoing the quests from the rebel NPC Jedi behind the waterfall. I think it was the third mission that had you removing force sensitive savages, and if you did not do it in a certain amount of time it would despawn and you would lose a couple of rebelfaction points. Wellthe group was all grabbing missions at the same time which made it difficult to get to each mission. A certain member of the group, who the only medic,got upset by his loss of fifteen rebel faction points whenhis mission timed out and left the group.Upon doing so convinced the remainingfive or sixmembers that everyone was screwed without a medic, and refused to heal etc..

After that it did not take long for the group to disband and join him. I didn't care for the behavior myself, but I do know that hunting without a medic is fairly pointless unless you were buffed by a doctor so I understood their dilema.

If I had to do it againI still would not have run the group around the interests of one disgruntled player. Now that I know how thosequests work Iwould have had the members of the group take the missions one at a time so everyone could get them done before the mission waypoint became empty.

There will always be problems when personalities clash in a group but you should not let it bother you, just use it to lead better the next time.

The only thing you did wrong was letting the moron back into your group. I suggest the 3 strike rule

1) First infraction that leads to disharmony in the group gets a private /tell explination of what they did wrong.

2) Second infraction gets a group message warning them that if the offence happens a third time they will be removed from the group

3) Third infraction I kick them, no ifs, ands or buts.

If I see more than 3 lines of text from the person I kicked in the next 30 minutes, I inform that person and my group that I am placing the offender on /ignore so I can concentrate on leading my group.

Mind you I really don't need to do much to lead groups. I basically make whoever's mission it is, the main assist and then I sys out adds, and incommings for people to assist me or the main tank. Occasionally I help with the healing and I try to explain tactics that I think will work better than what we're doing. I've only gotten one person on ignore and I've only ever had to kick two people from groups.