Squad Leader Archive

Since nothing definite has been proposed by the devs for our class, I spent the entire afternoon updating and improving the squad leader skill tree. And just so everyone knows, I am a mod dev who has worked on a few Jedi Outcast projects. Anyways, here is my end result. Please tell me what you think and if something needs to be added/changed.

Novice Squad Leader
Should have ability to see direction and distance to all group members’ missions as if they were the squad leader’s own.

Skill Mods

Group Ranged Defense +3
Group Melee Defense +3

Commands

System Message To Group - /sysgroup
These messages should appear in bright color and should display in the group chat tab.

Flag Target - /flag
This command will put an icon over a target’s head in order to distinguish it better.

Mobility I Marching

Skill Mods
Group Terrain Negotiation +10
Group Burst Run Efficiency +10

Commands
March - /march
The squad leader forces the party into a formation, which provides the benefits of being in camp, such as improved healing rate, wound healing, and creature repulsion. Marching will end if a member enters combat.

Mobility II Formations

Skill Mods
Group Terrain Negotiation +10
Group Burst Run Efficiency +10
Group Accuracy While Moving +10
This mod increases the group’s chances of hitting while moving.
Marching +10
This mod improves the benefits of the /march command.

Mobility III Drills
At this level, a member playing an instrument while marching can slightly improve the general movement speed of the party. Speed increase is dependent on marching skill and not instrument skill.

Skill Mods
Group Terrain Negotiation +15
Group Burst Run Efficiency +15
Marching +15

Mobility IV Retreat

Skill Mods
Group Terrain Negotiation +15
Group Burst Run Efficiency +15

Commands
Retreat! - /retreat
Gives everyone burst run at heavy cost to squad leader (but not incap).

Strategy I Planned Action

Skill Mods
Group Accuracy +10
This mod increases the group’s to hit bonus.

Commands
Steady Aim - /steadyaim
Lasts for at least 60 seconds and makes it virtually impossible to miss targets. Does not fail.

Strategy II Decisive Action

Skill Mods
Group Counterattack +10

Commands
Battle Cry - /battlecry
This command has the effect of slowing down the attack of a group of opponents.

Strategy III Unified Strike

Skill Mods
Group Weapon Speed +10
This mod increases the attack speed of the group.

Commands
Volley Fire - /volleyfire
Directs the next attack of every squad member at designated target. If no special attacks are in queue, members attack normally.

Strategy IV Precise Strike

Commands
Health Volley - /healthvolley
This command works like volley fire, except all group attacks are targeted at the health pool. Attacks that do not normally target health do half damage.

Action Volley - /actionvolley
Same as health volley but with action pool targeted.

Mind Volley - /mindvolley
Same as health volley but with mind pool targeted.

Leadership I Enforced Discipline

Skill Mods
Morale +5
This mod increases group focus and willpower.

Commands
Form Up - /formup
Cures dizzy, stun, blind, and intimidation effects on all group members.

Leadership II Command Directives

Skill Mods
Morale +5

Commands
Regroup - /regroup
This command will stop or reduce bleeding on group members.

Leadership III Exemplary Behavior

Skill Mods
Morale +10

Leadership IV Battlefield Authority

Skill Mods
Morale +5

Commands
Inspire Greatness - /inspire
This command will end incapacitation on all party members.

Tactics I Battlefield Support

Skill Mods
Group Ranged Defense +5
Group Melee Defense +5

Commands
Rally - /rally
Lasts for at least 60 seconds and never fails.

Tactics II Special Defense

Skill Mods
Group Ranged Defense +5
Group Melee Defense +5
Group Defense Vs. Blind +10
Group Defense Vs. Dizzy +10
Group Defense Vs. Intimidation +10
Group Defense Vs. Stun +10

Tactics III Collective Entity

Skill Mods
Group Ranged Defense +5
Group Melee Defense +5

Commands
Squad Mentality - /squad
This command redistributes the damage among the group.

Tactics IV Defensive Form

Skill Mods
Group Ranged Defense +10
Group Melee Defense +10
Group Block +10
Group Dodge +10

Master Squad Leader

Skill Mods
Group Terrain Negotiation +10
Group Burst Run Efficiency +10
Marching +5
Group Ranged Defense +7
Group Melee Defense +7
Morale +5
Group Accuracy +5
Group Weapon Speed +5

Time for some harsh constructive criticism.

Let's look at the defensive possibilities alone

A master pistoleer with his basic ranged support abilites all the way to the max gets 13 ranged def, 15 melee def, and 30 dodge.

This master squad leader gives 35 ranged def and 35 melee def. So, the squad leader more than triples a Master Pistoleer's Defense (though, the SL tree pretty much does that already), in addition to adding block and dodge. The change would be even more dramatic for a master carbineer, with 13 ranged def, and 2 melee def. So he goes from 13/2 to 48/37, also getting dodge and block.

I think the defensive bonus might be worth the skill points to Master by itself.

Let alone3 Tiers worth of weapon speed increase, 4 tiers worth ofexploration increase, At least 5 tiers worth of Wilderness survival,2 tiers worth of medic (first aid),and some other tiers for everyone in the group, not to mention all the nice specials. Master scouts would be almost obsolete in a group with a squad leader, they'd only be using trapping and hunting.Not to flame, but don't you think this is a little bit overboard? Using the special volley shots, the novice pistoleer becomes just as good as the master pistoleer, only difference is a little bit of speed and defense.

I'm just trying to figure out if you're trying to make this a balanced class, or a required class? With a squad leader this powerful, the server would oversaturate with them because everyone wants to be able to have the bonuses, and there would be a drought of SL experience for everyone, as they're split into tiny groups so that they can all be earning experience.

First I think this a great skill tree. It's well thought out and it has a lot of benefits to the class.

March is very cool. In fact I like the whole mobility line upgrade. I would ask for group mask scent but it looks like rangers have the corner on the market. Would still like to have it.

I like the idea of improved accuracy in the strategy line.

Leaderhip line rocks, full stop. I have nothing but praise for it. Same with Tactics.

The only abilitiesI don't think are very usefull are paint target, retreat, volleyfire, and the advanced volley fires. Let me give you an examples starting with volleyfire.

If there is only one target that the group is engaged with, VF is useless. If there are mutliple mobs engaged then it depends on how you handle it. You can have people tank adds, suppression fire adds, or warning shot adds, or just engage adds with pets, etc... In any of these cases if you use VF here is what you risk. If your a melee, your attack round is wasted unless you are already engaged with the mob VF is targeted on as your not close enough to hit. If your on warning shot duty, you mightwarning shot the mob away. If you are on heal duty, you will lose a round of healing which could cause an important member of your group to die. It is much safer and more practical to say assist Main Tank (MT), MT2, MT3, etc... A workable /assist button is 100 time more valuable then volleyfire could ever be.

Paint Target is also a waste if /assist worked properly. Why would you want to select a target and paint it. Then the MT and everyone else has to find and selects it and you start the fight. It makes much more sense to pick someone who is the Main Assist for the group and everyone has him hotbuttoned. When he is ready he will say, please assist me now. Paint Target is inefficient and unless you are acting as the puller or MT, then its probably not even appropriate for you to use the command at all.

Retreat is just a waste. People should learn to stand and fight it out. The only one who should run near the end of a fight is the healer, to revive everyone. Everyone else should be hanging around protecting him or putting a body between an angry mob and the healer while he runs and hides. The retreat command will likely develop bad habits.

The problem with /assist right now is it does not target the mob with the upper right hand target selection window. If they just fixed that, groups would be a lot more functional immediately. /assist is all that you need to coordinate as complicated a group as you want. You don't need multiple 5 man sub squads. Just assign multiple tanks and have certain members responsible for helping them out. /assist is god like for groups and yet SWG version of it is broken.

If the developers want to improve the game quality of grouping they need to start with fixing/assist. Until that is fixed properly, grouping will continue to be haphazard at best.

I agree. As nice as it would be to have those it is pretty over powered. As a master sl and pistoleer I would pretty much be super man!

Durrikan this is like a negotation. We ask for the world in the hopes of getting a little more then crumbs, lol. If we startto low, we won't get anything.

I just hope the developers are listening...

I like some of your ideas a lot. While your numbers are too high in many cases, especially the defensive stats, and somethings need to be spread out, you add some great ideas that could be implimented. Basically, if we all tried this and took bits and pieces of everyone's ideas on the Squad Leader tree, we'd have a great, unique class very soon.

I especially like your ideas on the flag target command and the inspire command. I also like the idea of the targeted volleyfires a little better than the single command I thought of. If you'd like to take a look at my proposed skill tree, the link is here.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=1628&highlight=#M1628

It's great to see more and more of these threads popping up. I like some of the skills listed here. I'm taking a lot of suggestions and hopefully will be grinding out some sort of "Master List" of trees. Some of what you have here will definitely make that list. I especially like the pool-specific volleys, which might actually make that sort of skill worthwhile. Great job!

Durikkan-

This is true; I kept the original group defense values while adding to the others, which is probably overkill. I will rework the values so they are lower. Other than that, do you think the bonuses itself are appropriate (disregarding value at this point)?

Shuyunh-

Thank you! I too think the Mobility line is the strongest (as in most balanced). I'm not too sure on the others, they probably need reworking a bit. Remember, this is a first draft though people . I left out group mask scent because I think the ranger should get it also being a support class (if anyone gets it), and because SOE already posted that they will give them that camo ability that works on other players.Flag is a relatively useless command, especially in large fights, which is why I made it a novice command. But when doing faction missions, I think it would be useful (or would be useful if the targets were hard again) for flagging the first guy to pull. I wouldn't have to type out "/sys Target VK-53" or whatever, I could just explain to target the flag and hold fire until we get ready. But in a large group that clearly outskills its opponents it would be useless, as with any sort of fire coordination because the group will not hold fire in the first place. That is my experience at least. Volley fire and retreat are useless commands. I only have them because adjusting them slightly would take a lot less development time than making new commands. I will change them so that if group members are not engaged, it will not force them to fire. Retreat is a waste. I will change itso it is more useful. And /assist does need a fix badly. I've gotten it to work maybe 3 times.

Dustin-

I will do that, thanks.

Aden-

Thank you! Make sure that master list gets submitted to Vemnox so he can get it to the devs! Remember people, the more support we have on the forums, the faster we will get a fix, so tell all those squad leaders on your server to come here and post! /rally

New skills! Check them out and see what you think.

Mobility IV Charge

Skill Mods
Group Terrain Negotiation +15
Group Burst Run Efficiency +15

Commands
Charge! - /charge
Gives everyone a 30 second burst run that will not render them tired when it wears out. Burst run efficiency applies.

Strategy III Unified Strike

Skill Mods
Group Weapon Speed +10
This mod increases the attack speed of the group.

Commands
Volley Fire - /volleyfire <target>
Directs the next attack of every squad member who is currently engaged in combatat designated target. If no special attacks are in queue, members attack normally.

Tactics II Special Defense

Skill Mods
Group Defense Vs. Blind +10
Group Defense Vs. Dizzy +10
Group Defense Vs. Intimidation +10
Group Defense Vs. Stun +10

Tactics IV Defensive Form

Skill Mods
Group Ranged Defense +5
Group Melee Defense +5
Group Block +5
Group Dodge +5

I like your ideas (although some are a bit much) they show a real usefulness to the group, and I really liked the idea I read here about SL's should be able to build defensive structures. Possibly with little gun turrets at the advanced levels.

I vote that you nix your retreat idea's and charge... Give the SL a /doubletime command that makes the group pick up and run at 1.5 speed until one of them enters combat. That would be useful in retreating situations.

Then how about we make use of the SL's ablity to lead, and put a command that makes the entire group execute a demolshing area attack. Like Full Auto Area, only the entire gorup would execute it at the target of the SL's choice. This attack should work like supression fire and force everybody hit by it to prone, as well as possbily inflice a status ailment or two, and do some good damage to the bad guys ham bars.

One other possible improvement to Volley Fire may be to include an bonus chance for knocking down and/or stunning an enemy. A single concentrated barrage at a target usually (IRL) results in "buttoning up" a target, that is, they are forced to take cover, drop their stance, or other effect that basically reduces their ability to counter attack. A good example of this is in Saving Private Ryan, where the group members all fire at the machinegun nest. While this increaces their damage, it also acts as if everyone cast "suppression fire", hindering their ability to return fire.

The thing is, the Squad Leader is SUPPOSED to make his entire group as efficient as possible. All those increases to defense and everything just comes with the package since a Squad Leader is sacrificing his ability to become an Elite fighter in another profession so he can make his group a much better one in the process.

I think SL abilities SHOULD make Pistoleers, Riflemen, Bounty Hunters, Creature Handlers, Rangers, etc. 3x better. A group being lead by a qualified, skilled leader is supposed to have this sort of advantage from leadership compared to a Squad lead by just another guy.

I could be owning people in combat right now as a Bounty Hunter but I chose to become a Squad Leader instead since leadership is my main foray.

I have no problems having a novice pistoleer turn into a master pistoleer in the presence of a Master Squad Leader.

After all your job is to inspire your grp mates.
The presence of the SL is SUPPOSE to make a difference in the group, if it doesnt then it certainly isnt worth the time and effort to even roll one.

At anyrate the novice pistoleer probably dont have those special moves that the master pistoleer have.

I was more for hoping that SL's presence in groups will lower HAM cost for special moves as well.

I do like the part about increasing focus and willpower.