Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leader Bunkers and more
Squad Leader Fortifications
Proposal
Much discussion has taken place over the past month or two about what the Squad
Leader community would like to see added to our other wise functionless
profession. One of the more popular ideas which has received support for
multiple professions has been the ability for Squad leaders to construct
temporary structures called fortifications.
What is a Fortification?
A fortification would be a temporary structure that would provide a
defensive location from which a group would receive many befits, including such
bonuses as increased melee and ranged defenses, increased damage to targets,
increased accuracy, and bonuses to Squad leader Skill modifiers (this is
assuming that SL skills are going to be fixed at some point). There are numerous
options for what they could do. In addition the amount of the bonuses and the
number of different types of bonuses can vary depending on the type and level of
fortification. The focus of fortification use would be directed toward large
scale PvP combat. A group lead by a Squad leader would be able to bunk up in a
Fortified structure to hold a critical position, like the entrance to a Player
Association building or Player owned Faction HQs.
What a Fortification
is not.
A fortification will not in any way be a camp. One of the reoccurring
arguments proposed against this is that Fortification will be too much like
camps. However there is only one aspect that both of these share, and that is
they are both temporary structures. But Fortification will not provide any of
the function that ranger and scout camps provide. The focus of camps is for
healing and recuperating after a battle, while fortifications will focus on
providing support during those battles.
Fortification Suggestions
- Sand Bags Stack – would provide a very
small amount of increased ranged defense. However sand bags could have one
special function that other fortifications would not have, this would be that
(if it’s possible for the DEVs to program) sand bad could be used inside
designer cities. This would be useful for cities like Anchorhead which deal
with a heavy amount of PvP combat. - Trench – would provide more ranged
defense then sand bags, but can not be used in developer cities. - Reinforced Trench – more improvements to
ranged defense, at this level bonuses to Squad leader skills could begin - Sniper platforms – this is a new idea
that has not received much discussion yet. the generally idea is that unlike
other fortifications it would not provide defense bonuses but instead could be
use by one or two range weapon users to increase weapon range, and accuracy.
- Bunker - this fortification has received
that majority of the support form the community. Bunkers could provide
exceptional increases to melee and ranged defenses as well as decent boosts to
Squad Leader abilities. - High Tech Defense Station – this would be
one of the better fortification possibly master Squad leader level. Basically
a more improved bunker.
Arguments Against Fortifications
They are too much like ranger camps
True they are a temporary structure similar to what ranger camps are, however,
they do not do anything ranger camps do. So fortifications would not take away
form anything rangers have. Also one of the requirements for Squad leaders is
the entire Survival tree from scout. Fortifications would be the logical next
set form this skill line for the Squad leader profession. In my personally
opinion, the rangers that are threatened by the addition of fortifications are
those that are unhappy with their profession, and feel that the camps they have
are nothing but “eye candy.” They seem to be threatened by anything that even
remotely resembles something that they could possibly have as a future addition,
even if the idea is really better suited for another profession. Again this is
my personally opinion.
Rangers are supposed to be getting hunting blinds in
the near future
I read the developer mention of the hunting blinds and it is for the most part
vague and uninformative of what exactly they are supposed to do. From the name
alone I have guessed that it would provide some kind of bonus to PvE combat,
possibly a to-hit bonus to creatures. Maybe even confuse creatures as to the
location of its attackers for a short time, sort of a surprise attack kind of
thing. Well that’s fine if this is what a hunting blind is supposed to do, but
if a hunting blind is supposed to do any of the thing we have discussed for
Fortifications then I think it would be better in the hands of the Squad
Leaders. I have no problem with the hunting blind idea, it sounds like a great
addition to Rangers for hunting purposes, at the same time fortifications would
be a great addition to Squad leaders for PvP purposes.
I would rather see rangers get something like this so
we can be more effective in PvP combat
I think I will let one of the Ranger communities own state the counter argument
to this point: "... as a ranger I think this idea is great. We already have a
certain portion of the Ranger community who want Rangers to be more effective in
PVP but my opinion is that no matter how much we want to, we cant be all things
to all people. I indorse the idea of allowing a SL to fortify a Ranger camp. If
a Ranger wants to be a Military style Ranger with PVP benefits then they should
spend points on SL. I hope our correspondent NRass reads this and will begin
working with the SL correspondent on getting this implemented."
- BaneShee
Issues
Crafting - no one has come up with a perfect plan for
who should craft these kits. Some of the upper level fortifications could be too
complicated for a SL to be able to craft alone. We could do several things for
this issue, such as give the schematics to either the ranger or architect
profession so they would have to craft the fortification kits for us. Or Squad
leaders could make the final craft but would require crafted components that
only rangers or architects can craft. There’s no easy answer, and there is also
the combat engineer profession to consider (if it ever gets added). Recourse for
camps would be different depending on the fortification, sand bags would most
likely need fiberplast panels and some type of mineral that would be crushed
into sand. I’m not an expert on recourses so I’m probably not the best person to
be touching on this subject. But fortifications will probably need to be a bit
more complicated to craft then camps.
Turrets - lets not push it people. I know we need
some major changes made to our profession but I think weaponry is going a bit
too far. This could be an addition to the fortification that combat engineers
could provide, but I don’t think this is something we should be able to do.
Squad Leader vs Ranger - in all honestly rangers
don’t have any ground to stand on for most of their arguments. They have a
working profession, and by working I mean they have skills and abilities that
perform a function (area track, camps, traps). True the traps aren’t anything
too special, but at least they work... Squad leaders have maybe one working
skill out of our entire profession. I can see why ranger feel threatened by this
idea, but please! Consider the fact that you guys at least have a working
profession and ours is busted beyond belief. I wish you guys luck in having your
profession improved but please at least let us have Fortifications. We need this
desperately.
Skill mods - I’m actually kind of surprised no one
has brought this up yet. But SLs already have skill mods to increase melee and
ranged defenses, and while they really aren’t working what happens if they get
fixed down the road? Well from how I understand these skill mods work is they
are added to what ever defenses the individual members of the group already
have. And one of the problems is once that player reaches the cap for that mod
they bonus no longer applies. This would be a problem for the fortification if
the cap for individual player defense skill mods is taken into account.
Therefore I have come up with two ideas, 1) while in a fortification, group
member receive the increased defenses even if they excide the skill cap. Or 2)
while in a fortification the amount of damage group members receive is reduces
dramatically to the point where it would be almost impossible to kill any of
them before they can kill the attacker, but the fortification itself could be
targeted and destroyed.
Combining - one of the main reason rangers are so
supportive of the fortifications idea is that we have discussed a possible use
for these kits to be able to either place them around or otherwise combine the
fortification with a ranger camp. I can see how this might be a difficult
concept to be programmed in, which is why I left this idea out of the opening
proposal. I think we would all like to see camps and fortifications being used
together, however as it maybe a difficult thing to program id rather see us get
a stand alone fortification first and then add the ability to combine with camps
later.
Support - oddly enough in reviewing who was for and
who was against this idea it seems we have a majority of support form rangers.
This tally was done a few weeks ago and does no include new data from this week
but the trend has not seemed to change. I collected a list of 40 names of those
35 where for and only 5 where against. Of the 35 for fortifications, 10 are
confirmed rangers and 8 are confirmed squad leaders. This data was taken form 2
threads one posted on the SL forum and the other on the ranger forum.
Conclusion
While I believe that the most important priority the development teams needs to
focus on is to fix the skills we have now, before they move into new content I
still feel very strongly about this idea. I think fortifications could be one of
the best possible additions to the Squad leader profession that would make us a
valuable asset to the SWG world. Fortifications would not take away for Ranger,
in fact most ranger are very supportive of this idea and want to see it added to
our profession.
Resources
agree as a rifleman/squad leader it would be very benificial to have a skill that would in fact help the group.
Considering everything else is mearly just a quick flash of letters in the chat box when everyone is spamming with creature commands
/sign
With TH on the profession boards more often, let's up he sees this great idea!
From Holocrons Ranger Correspondent Feedback:
The most important change to Frontiering will be the introduction of special camps. These camps will not operate like a normal rest camp. The Ranger's "Hunting Blind" will give him special bonuses to attracting and hunting creatures as long as he stays within it. Other special camps with unique functionality are being designed.
Sorry, I do not support this. Camps like those suggested are already in the works for Rangers. I for one do believe that these camps should be just as valuable in a PvP/NPC battle as well as on aCreature hunt.
Isn't a Squad Leader job to put together a squad? So if a SL wants camps/bunkers it would make sense that he would always have a Ranger in his squad? Why add crafting to a combat class, when a class exist that already does this? Our twolargest "camps"are notreally camps anyway,they are Field Bases, making us "field engineers". Any type of fortification should be handled by us. Also, any temp structure/fortification we create should befor any type of encounter PvP, PvE, creatures, NPC, Battlefield...etc
I do like the idea of our camps adding to the Squad Leaders skills. This will link our two professions in a very good way. I believe all groups should have a Ranger and a Squad Leader. This would give the game even more inter-class dependency outside the crafting system.
1) No one else can craft combat bunkers (at least not yet)
2) We already have survivalist (Survival 1-4), so let us do something with it.
Ranged Support makes sense, just from the name. Exploration makes sense since we get further Terrain Negotiation & Burst Run bonuses. But Survival? Sure it's handy to have, but if it's required shouldn't we get some bonuses to it in an elite classes? Either new camps to construct, or new features for old camps, or maybe improved healing rates or something.
"Again, why do Rangers need a "combat camp?" don't you have enough?"
The VERY simple answer to that is of course, NO
Ranger camps actually do very little compared to even the most basic Scout camps. That is the whole reason Ranger camps are just called "Eye Candy". They look nice but perform very little function, espeacially for the amout of skill points needed to make them.
The "Fortifactions" that this post is requesting is already likely in the works for Rangers. You seem to think of the Ranger class more as a "Park Ranger" where as we see ourselves more as a "Army Ranger/Special Forces" type.
I cannot ask you to change your opinion, but coming from a profession that has many problems how would you feel if another profession wanted to take one of the few working (albet weak) skills you have.
My whole point orginally was that I personally would be willing to share in some of the skills needed to create our best camps but there is no chance Rangers would be happy with the "Park Ranger" status you see for us and give the best camps to another profession.
Again, why do Rangers need a "combat camp?" don't you have enough?
Don't we have enough? We were the most incomplete profession in the game before we got /conceal and /areatrack. We don't have nearly enough, which is why the dev's are working on new camps and new traps for us. This has been in development for some time.
I see no reason why Rangers need to be involved.
Hmmm...way to "rally" support for your ideas and causes. We don't need to be involved, nor do you need temporary structures. They were designed for the Ranger for a reason, and contrary to what you said about us being a "non-combat profession" that is again...why we remain an incomplete profession. Rangers are not just hunters. Visit the Ranger forums some time and check out our correspondant N'Raas' list of the different types/styles of a Ranger. When we are "fixed" we should have camps/semi-permanent forward combat stations among other types of camps.
butwhere Rangers think this should be theirsis beyond me. I'd rather they not put them on the game at all.
Am I to understand you correctly? Are you suggesting "nerfing" another profession for the benefit of your own? Classy, and again, probably not the best way to garner support for your ideas or profession.