Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leader Bunkers and more
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Again, why do Rangers need a "combat camp?" don't you have enough?
Don't we have enough? We were the most incomplete profession in the game before we got /conceal and /areatrack. We don't have nearly enough, which is why the dev's are working on new camps and new traps for us. This has been in development for some time.
I see no reason why Rangers need to be involved.
Hmmm...way to "rally" support for your ideas and causes. We don't need to be involved, nor do you need temporary structures. They were designed for the Ranger for a reason, and contrary to what you said about us being a "non-combat profession" that is again...why we remain an incomplete profession. Rangers are not just hunters. Visit the Ranger forums some time and check out our correspondant N'Raas' list of the different types/styles of a Ranger. When we are "fixed" we should have camps/semi-permanent forward combat stations among other types of camps.
butwhere Rangers think this should be theirsis beyond me. I'd rather they not put them on the game at all.
Am I to understand you correctly? Are you suggesting "nerfing" another profession for the benefit of your own? Classy, and again, probably not the best way to garner support for your ideas or profession.
DUDE they CANT nerf us!!!! i mean how they gonna do it????
DarthLithic, The entire reason you are even seeing Rangers post on this subject is because the orginator of this post "OmegusNeo" posted this link on the Ranger board asking for support. While you may not care what other people think of your profession, that is not the obviously the opinion of the orginal poster.
As far as anything being written? Thats just crazy. It is much more of a jump for SL's to be creating camps than it is to actually make the camps already in the game actually usefull.
It is obvious you have not read anything on the Ranger forums. I really think you need to learn a little more about what you are talking about before you post anything more on this topic. Your posting started off very nicely but you have sunk into just whinning and complaining.
Just to be blunt, you will NEVER get these fortifactions anyway so I dont know why I am bothering. Rangers will get semi-perm camps. They may or may not get defensive bonus's.
neo once again you rock
ummm from reading the ranger fourms they aggre with this from what i can tell
What do camps do: They allow for wounds to be treated, pets to be called, and at higher levels, items to be crafted.
What will ranger blinds do: Attractcritters to the player. No more searching for you guys.
What willbunkers not do: See above.
So what do bunkers do?
They provide passive bonuses to things like *dodge* and *counterattack*. They decrease the accuracy of the enemy. A standing person would have the same defence modifiers as if they were kneeling, etc.
They provide passive bonuses accuracy and aiming. A person shooting from a standing position in a bunker would have the same accuracy as if they were kneeling outside of one, etc.
Some less likely, but equally validthings would be: extended range based on posture in the bunker. Weak turrets to provide additional firepower.
What limits bunkers?
They aren't going anywhere, and, therefore, are only good for defence. It would be useless in most combat situations.
Wounds can't be healed in them. In a defence situation (extended engagement, as it would be) there would need to be a camp nearby that fighters could retreat to for healing.
A timer. Since they will stay up durring combat, they will need to be put on the same 50 min timer as camps.
Squad Leaders should not have the ability to craft their own fortifications. Our pre-requisets(sp?)do not deal in any way with working with inorganics: what bunkers are made of. We do, however, have experience with camps, so deploying them should not be a problem.
Riflemen don't craft rifles, commandos don't craft flamethrowers, Bounty Hunters don't craft their own composite armor. Why should SL's get to craft their fortifications? Architects deserve this skill and this means of income. They build, we deploy. We work together.
When you recount the latest numbers, please count this Master Ranger as a "no" for your suggestion. I have listed the majority of my argument already, in a reply to aresponse on this thread. Let me just state before I respond to this more, that bashing Rangers, suggesting a "nerf" of Rangers, or otherwise suggesting something that will be detrimental to our profession, will in no way garner the respect or support of the Ranger community for your suggestion.
A fortification would be a temporary structure that would provide a defensive location from which a group would receive many befits, including such bonuses as increased melee and ranged defenses, increased damage to targets, increased accuracy, and bonuses to Squad leader Skill modifiers (this is assuming that SL skills are going to be fixed at some point). There are numerous options for what they could do.
Temporary structures i.e. camps were given to Scouts and Rangers. Yes you have the Survival Skill, and you have the associated benefits of that, the camps. In order to receive better and more beneficial temporary structures (camps) you to become a Ranger, which requires the Frontiering Skill. There are indeed numerous options for what advanced camps could do, which is what the Ranger community has been waiting for.
The focus of fortification use would be directed toward large scale PvP combat. A group lead by a Squad leader would be able to bunk up in a Fortified structure to hold a critical position, like the entrance to a Player Association building or Player owned Faction HQs.
As I mentioned, the fortification (temporary structure) is basically an advanced camp, which is what the Ranger community has been asking for. I have no problem with a Squad Leader enhancing, said advanced camp/fortification, giving players in this camp bonuses that were mentioned. However this is something that needs to be added (again something that is already being worked on by the developers) to the Frontiering line, and not created seperately for another profession.
In my personally opinion, the rangers that are threatened by the addition of fortifications are those that are unhappy with their profession, and feel that the camps they have are nothing but “eye candy.” They seem to be threatened by anything that even remotely resembles something that they could possibly have as a future addition, even if the idea is really better suited for another profession.
I, as are all of the Rangers that I play or associate with, am very happy with our profession.I also look forward to the additions already in the works for our still incomplete profession, such as advanced camps, new traps and other things. We are not "threatened", but we are concerned that another profession would suggest that something that is already in the works for us be taken and handed to another. It's really better suited to another profession in your opinion, not ours.
"in all honestly rangers don’t have any ground to stand on for most of their arguments."
"They have a working profession, and by working I mean they have skills and abilities that perform a function (area track, camps, traps). True the traps aren’t anything too special, but at least they work... "
"I can see why ranger feel threatened by this idea, but please!"
We don't have any ground to stand on.....hmm....I EMPHATICALLY disagree. I may be only one voice of the Ranger community, but so is Baneshee, whom you so eloquently quoted from the Ranger boards. We have a working, but as yet INCOMPLETE, profession. The traps are not only "anything too special" but they rarely work like they should, even at Master, sometimes not even registering a fail or success when trapping. I'm glad you can see why your suggestion could be considered as threatening. Maybe you should rethink your proposal, and come up with something that won't detract from another profession to benefit yours.
Finally, please understand that I sympathize with the SL's desire to be fixed/improved. We want to see you flourish, just not at the detriment of the Rangers. Good luck with your advancements and improvements to your profession.
Sincerely,
Basically, what I am hearing, is that you feal that squad fortifications should be a ranger skill. You feal that it should be an advanced combat camp. You have already gotten an advanced hunting camp that makes you more effective against your enemies - animals.
Wesee our other scout skills show up again as movement bonuses. We see our ranged support skills show up in/steadyaim and /volleyfire. Every profession sees what they have learned in their pre-requisets again in their advanced profession. Our camping skills dissapear before the novice SL box. Now we want the same thing you want: an advanced camp that makes us more effective against our enemies - other players. It in no way encroaches on your abilities or hunting skills. If in no way replaces any of your healing modifiers. It in no way touches anything related to the ranger profession.
We are 2/3 scout. We require one line from marksman, and two from scout. It is our right to have those scout skills show up in our master profession.
Why are you afraid of this skill?
ob194 says..
"Basically, what I am hearing, is that you feal that squad fortifications should be a ranger skill. You feal that it should be an advanced combat camp. You have already gotten an advanced hunting camp that makes you more effective against your enemies - animals. "
This is just simply not true. What is an "Advanced Hunting Camp"? There is no such thing and none of our camps make us more effective against creatures.
The term "Squad Fortification" is a totally loaded term. Of course that sounds like something a Squad Leader should have but in reallity it is another from of temporary structure which are all called "CAMPS"
As stated before, Squad Leaders are supposed to be just that, leaders of a group. I definetly understand the argument that Rangers should not be able to create fortifications and that one of the Artisan profession should create it. This same argument would hold equally true against SL'sas well.
The Simple fact is that Ranger Camps were intended to offer defenses from the very beginning so, yes, we do not want this taken from us.
It isobvious to me that the SL profession needs aTON of work. You should not have to take away from another broken profession as well to make things right.
IMO, SL's should already be giving groups defensive bonuses just from being the leader. Different comands in th SL tree could improve this even more.
To ask a question back to you, Why do you want a Temporary Structure aka Fortification aka Camp ?
If it smells like a rose and looks like a rose it is probably a rose.
"it is another from of temporary structure which are all called "CAMPS""
"What do camps do: They allow for wounds to be treated, pets to be called, and at higher levels, items to be crafted.
What will ranger blinds do: Attractcritters to the player. No more searching for you guys.
What willbunkers not do: See above."
"I definetly understand the argument that Rangers should not be able to create fortifications and that one of the Artisan profession should create it. This same argument would hold equally true against SL'sas well."
We agree on this. Neither SLs not Rangers should be able to build them. Only SLs should be able to deploy them.
"The Simple fact is that Ranger Camps were intended to offer defenses from the very beginning so, yes, we do not want this taken from us."
You misinterpreted what the DEVs told you. Ranger camp defenses prevent (or are supposed to prevent) two things: creatures spawning near you, and aggro. They are not designed for combat defenses. IF they were why in God's name to they dissapear when we enter combat?
"It isobvious to me that the SL profession needs aTON of work. You should not have to take away from another broken profession as well to make things right."
You are not broken. You may be incomplete, but so is the entire game.
"IMO, SL's should already be giving groups defensive bonuses just from being the leader. Different comands in th SL tree could improve this even more."
Yes, bunkers could improve this even more, and it would also prevent us from being overpowered, for reasons I stated in a previous post.
"To ask a question back to you, Why do you want a . . . Fortification?"
We have no abilities. You rangers have uber tracking/trapping/camping/hunting skills. Pistoleers can spray laser fire like there is no tomarrow. Commandos, well you don't want to mess with a commando. THe same goes for Bounty Hunters. Even riflemen can do something: mind bleed. What do we do for a squad? Doctors can keep up. We can make spam appear in the middle of the screen. We can destroy our mind bar through broke-ass specials that do nothing and cost too much. Why do we want fortifications? To give us the ability to enhance the abilities of our squad members in a powerful, yet controled way. We want to be **edit**ing usefull, dammit.
Why do you want this new ability so bad? Are you not content with being the masters of all that eat grass and raw flesh?
"It isobvious to me that the SL profession needs aTON of work. You should not have to take away from another broken profession as well to make things right."
Here's a question for you: How would our ability to place bunkers take away from your hunting abilities?
Ok, this will be my last post on the subject as well.
The main problem with Ranger camps is that the smallest one tent camp gives 90% of the benefit of the largest camp. The ONLY difference is a crafting station and I have never once had someone use a crafting station while on a hunt! As I said before, they are justEYE CANDY. What good is a 5% healing modifier increasewhen everyone has Stimpacks anyway. Oh, i guess mind will heal 5 seconds faster....
TheHighest level Ranger camp is called "High-Tech Field BASE" They are very likely to bemade to stay active during combat but if SL's can create/use another type of stucture that will have defense bonuses it will quickly make these camps evenmore useless.
I am fighting a losing battle coming into the SL forum and taking an unpopular stance. My only suggestion to all the SL's who want this change is to come a take a look at the Ranger forums' Top Five list created by our correspondent NRaas. You wil see that much of what you are asking for has been asked for by us for Months now.
Good luck to the Squad Leaders, I really hope they fix your profession.