Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Irott, is retreat supposed to cause Jedi not to be able to forcerun?
This has been an issue for some time and I have not seen it mentioned here much other than people stating the fact that this is the case. What I am wondering is if you have any feedback from devs one way or the other to indicate that this is working as intended or if it is, in fact a bug. Thanks in advance.
- Danison
Message Edited by Danison on 12-17-2004 12:15 PM
irott wrote:
Quick question for you (everyone)?
How do you want it to work?
Hmm... I vote that /retreat not prevent a Jedi from using forcerun, unless someone can put forward a really convincing arguement for why it should. The two should NOT stack, a Jedi who is under the affects of both Forcerun and Retreat should get the benefits of the better of the two. Forcerun should not cancel Retreat either - if a Jedi affected by both turns off Forcerun, he should still be under Retreat.
irott wrote:
How do you want it to work?
Message Edited by Darth_Sushi on 12-17-2004 09:37 PM
Its Forcerun 1 that is equal in speed to Burstrun/retreat? And its when the /retreat group speed bonus ends that the jedi's forcerun is forced to end as well?
Also... I think this falls under one of my biggest annoyances that has been around since launch. Being in water, or performing some sort of action like dancing, meditation, etc... Hitting burstrun, getting the message that you cannot burstrun at this time. Then standing on normal ground and hitting burst run again.
You are too tired to burstrun
*gets angry*
Baciacca wrote:The way that it should work is that a higher level enhanced run should overwrite a lower level enhanced run. The problem does not solely exist with Squad Leader, but with enhanced running altogether. STARTING retreat does not cause the jedi to lose Force Run. The jedi will in fact continue on their normal force run after a retreat is initialized, but when the retreat fades and the player "slows down", the effects of force run end. However, if you had a burstrun going (which lasts longer than the 20 second retreat, especially if you are a scout) you will slow down when the retreat ends in 20 seconds and you will no longer have burstrun ability.It's not as big of a deal with burstrun as it can only be utilized every so often already, but it is with force run because it's supposed to be an unlimted enhanced run for jedi. When they slow down from the retreat, the system thinks they are still on force run and the modifier shows up on their modifiers window. They cannot initialize another force run until their previous force run timer runs out. They also cannot be effected by a retreat from a squad leader or burstrun on their own.The problem is with two different ehnanced runs being utilized at the same time. What I believe should happen is that a lower level retreat should not effect someone on a higher level retreat. They should have no effect. If the retreat is higher than the run currently being used by the player, it should cancel that run, reset the timer for it, and put the player on the higher level run. Also, something needs to be changed with "slowing down". If the retreat ends, the positive effects of it should just end. There should be no negative end of "slowing down". If a force run is active, a player should not "stop" when they "slow down" from a force run.
I would agree with this. Always allow a greater burstrun to take over, when that is done let the passive burstrun (retreat) kick in when appropriate. Never allow a new retreat effect a higher level run.
On another note, it would be nice to hear something from the devs on this. I realize they are focused on the CU, but I took a look back at patch notes and I realized that with the exception of the spatial delay (which is something for the benefit of other players mostly as it really has no inherent value for us aside from not getting kicked to 0 0 on the map) we have gotten no fixes that I see. We onlt have a handful of specials when compared with other combat classes and most of them are broken or have a broken aspect. It seems reasonable to push in whatever way we can. Has a dev ever visited this section other to announce a new correspondent? When I looked back at the patch notes it seems like we are the red headed step children of SWG.
- Danison
Message Edited by Danison on 12-20-2004 08:48 AM
irott wrote:
Quick question for you (everyone)?
How do you want it to work?
I want it to cause the group to form a barrier between my enemies and me so I can get away and then make them move slower than I do. I mean, its about time those worthless maggots did something for me, right?
cydonia wrote:
irott wrote:
Quick question for you (everyone)?
How do you want it to work?
I would like to see /retreat as some kinda "take one for the team" ability that the SL can use. It helps the group excape but the SL is probably going to die.
That is how it works. The group gets burst run, but you don't.
I found this out when my group burst run away from the Acklay spawn in teh vbasement. Everybody was faster than me, even if they had no scout.
Yeah youmaybe at a small disadvantage in a "excape from the bottom of a cave" situation but i feel thats a pretty rare use of the skill.The fact that it works up to like 2000m out you dont even need to be in or near the cave.So you being alittle bit behinddoesnt effect your commands on the group.But in PvP with no TEF on SL skills it being a little slower is hardly "taking one for the team".
Blackferne wrote:
cydonia wrote:
irott wrote:
Quick question for you (everyone)?
How do you want it to work?
I would like to see /retreat as some kinda "take one for the team" ability that the SL can use. It helps the group excape but the SL is probably going to die.
That is how it works. The group gets burst run, but you don't.
I found this out when my group burst run away from the Acklay spawn in teh vbasement. Everybody was faster than me, even if they had no scout.
Message Edited by cydonia on 12-22-2004 01:43 PM
irott wrote:
Quick question for you (everyone)?
How do you want it to work?
First off it shouldnt be /retreat cause i use it to get into battle as much as out. unless its changed.
What i would like to see it this.I see SL as having this "A captain goes down with the ship" mentality. Currently in PvP as it is /retreat really doesnt help you "excape" death. Like a retreat should. Now some people will come here and post a story where they actually retreated and got away with this. But i dont think its true in general. Also if the other team has a SL (which if SL works after the CU they most likely will assuming its worth a dam) then the idea of geting away is really nil. I would like to see /retreat as some kinda "take one for the team" ability that the SL can use. It helps the group excape but the SL is probably going to die.
I will do my best at an example but there could be many:
Maybe like a battle charge that frezys the enemy into attacking him drawing more fire so friends can excape.Inspired by the sacrifice of their leaderthis give the players burst run and 50% damage reduction but a 50% damage nerf for excaping players. Now SL commands dont tef the SL but make it so that when this command is used the SL gets TEFed(the only command that will do so this will help to keep it "last resort"). Now as long as the SL is alive the group get the bonus but if he dies(or say 2-3 mins pass)they loose it (or maybe they loose it 30s or a min after he dies) Sothe enemy is going to want to kill the SL asap hence the "take one for the team part of it" Now in 20 person PvP with jedi a SL will get insta killed if they all target him. So maybe give the SL the damage reduction to keep him alive longer (adrenalin rush keeps him up). Now wewould want to prevent abuse to a command like this so maybe giveita 30 min timer or something like that.Also make it work only for people in range (like 30m this prevents the SL from activating it from far away and since no one can find him no one can kill him). The 30 min timer also prevents people from pveing withthe SL and useing this 50% damage reduction to tank elders or somethinglike it.Sure, youmight be able to do itonce but then you got to wait 30 mins which is not very efficient. Also if your side retreats and the other side has a SL the way it works now he would just hit it and chase after you. With this his side gets a 50% damage nerf againstyour 50% damage reduction. That would probably not be a very good idea.
Maybe something along these lines?
Sound at all resonable?
Message Edited by cydonia on 12-22-2004 02:16 AM