Squad Leader Archive
Thread: The Squad Leader Revamp: Thrawny plays Dev for a day
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Strudle
Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:19 pm
#1
In addition to the Combat revamp, here would be the long awaited SL revamp
All Squad leaders will draw their abilities from the focus pool following the rules laid down by the new HAM system.
Novice:
System Message: The same as it currently is but the color of the message can be set by using the /set sysmsg command and selecting the color.
Group Waypoints: This ability allows you use waypoint on your datapad and select "Activate for entire group" enabling group members to see it.
Group Waypoints: This ability allows you use waypoint on your datapad and select "Activate for entire group" enabling group members to see it.
Group terrain negotiation: +5
Group Melee Defense: +5
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Group Waypoint: +1 (Every point means another group waypoint you can activate)
Group Melee Defense: +5
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Group Waypoint: +1 (Every point means another group waypoint you can activate)
Group Movement Line:
Level 1:
Group terrain negotiation: +15
Group Waypoint +1
Group Waypoint +1
Level 2:
Group Crawl speed: +15
Group Waypoint +1
Group Waypoint +1
Level 3:
Group terrain negotiation: +15
Group Waypoint +1
Group Waypoint +1
Level 4:
Group Crawl speed: +15
Group Waypoint +1
Retreat!: This abilitiy give your group a2 minute burst run at the cost of your group member's regen and specials pool's
Group Waypoint +1
Retreat!: This abilitiy give your group a2 minute burst run at the cost of your group member's regen and specials pool's
Strategy Line:
Level 1:
Standing Orders: This ability gives squad leaders to fill a box with text which could be used to display contant information to group member. ie: guard the base, healers are in the basement...etc
Level 2:
Designate Target: This ability marks a tempororay red marker on a target the squad leader uses this command on to help groups pick out targets.
Level 4:
Battlefield Map: This will look similar to an almost RTS looking map. This overview gives a Squad Leader a birds eye view of battlefield and allows him to click on players and look at their status in addition to using their Squad Leader abilities. Beign engaged in combat will cancel out this.
Leadership Line:
Level 1:
Group Melee Defense: +5
Formup: Works the same as it does now
Formup: Works the same as it does now
Level 2:
Group Melee Defense: +5
Healing Effeciency: Decreases Injury treatment by 25%
Group Melee Defense: +5
Healing Effeciency: Decreases Injury treatment by 25%
Level 3:
Group Melee Defense: +5
Rest and Relaxation: This ability decreases the time it takes between
wounds treatements and Entertainer healing/buff. This however reduces the defense mods of the
group while enabled
Group Melee Defense: +5
Rest and Relaxation: This ability decreases the time it takes between
wounds treatements and Entertainer healing/buff. This however reduces the defense mods of the
group while enabled
Level 4:
Boost Morale: Works the same as it does currently
Group Melee Defense: +5
Group Melee Defense: +5
Tactics Line:
Level 1:
Rally: Increases Weapon accuracy
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Rally: Increases Weapon accuracy
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Level 2:
Advanced Firing Technics: Decreases HAM costs by 15%
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Level 3:
Volley: Directs attacks at a single target and is modified to include specials
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Level 4:
Charge!: Gives a temporary burst run soldiers for 60 seconds
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Master Squad Leader
Dig In!: Gives members a 25% bonus to HAM bars in a certain area designated by the Squad Leader in the Strategic Map
Leader Influence: This ability can be used as a group Force of Will with a 1 hour timer.
Leader Influence: This ability can be used as a group Force of Will with a 1 hour timer.
Group Melee Defense: +5
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Group terrain negotiation: +15
Group Crawl speed: +15
Group Waypoint +1
Group Ranged Defense: +5
Group terrain negotiation: +15
Group Crawl speed: +15
Group Waypoint +1
================================================
Feel free to add on or correct. Refer to my other Combat revamp post for info on the HAM revamp and preffessions revamp
Strudle
Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:49 am
#3
Fortifications sound cool in theory, but isnt that sort of what Faction Bases are? Id like to see players get walls and towers made availible and given to just the general population of even city planner politicians to place in cities.
If you will notice, Star Wars promotes a highly mobile style of warfare where fortifications play a role in.
PanzerGR
Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:19 pm
#4
i think your attempts are to be commended
but the passive abilities you give are really low and there arent enough real changes to the system.
Id liek to point out too that int he group mobility lien you have you have seperate crawl speed and terrain neg
thats not how the system works...... you get terrain negotiation , period. up to +50 increases your terrain negotiation ability.....anything past 50 enhances crawl speed. So with mobility 3 (as it currently is) even those with no scout receive full benefit to their movement ability.
enhancing crawl speed is a waste......when was the last time u saw soemoen crawling during combat?
As far as fortifications......we are talking about PORTABLE fortifications. Sandbags, barriers, portable shielding.....etc
i see a lot of new threads popping up by new SL's who havnt played th egame evry long, or at the very least are evry new to Squad Leader. I think you all would do good to search for Thuliums posts on the discussions of the different branches..... there was an official discussion on Strategy, Tactics, Leadership, and Mobility as well as novice and master.
im not trying to knock anyone but the ideas that were put together over the cours eof motnhs by MSL's who had been playing since launch were very well constructed. Half of the current posts made by newer SL's are starting us out at square 1 again.
Strudle
Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:16 pm
#5
PanzerGR wrote:
i think your attempts are to be commended
but the passive abilities you give are really low and there arent enough real changes to the system.
Id liek to point out too that int he group mobility lien you have you have seperate crawl speed and terrain neg
thats not how the system works...... you get terrain negotiation , period. up to +50 increases your terrain negotiation ability.....anything past 50 enhances crawl speed. So with mobility 3 (as it currently is) even those with no scout receive full benefit to their movement ability.
enhancing crawl speed is a waste......when was the last time u saw soemoen crawling during combat?
As far as fortifications......we are talking about PORTABLE fortifications. Sandbags, barriers, portable shielding.....etc
i see a lot of new threads popping up by new SL's who havnt played th egame evry long, or at the very least are evry new to Squad Leader. I think you all would do good to search for Thuliums posts on the discussions of the different branches..... there was an official discussion on Strategy, Tactics, Leadership, and Mobility as well as novice and master.
im not trying to knock anyone but the ideas that were put together over the cours eof motnhs by MSL's who had been playing since launch were very well constructed. Half of the current posts made by newer SL's are starting us out at square 1 again.
are you playing me off as a newb? Got some news for you, I have played for over a year now and was a SL for 8 months until i finally gave up and picked up a FOTM proff.
My revamp is a sum of what i have thoguht and read for the past year here and elsewhere. Fortifications I believe are a bigger role for Combat Engineers.
Squad Leaders should focus more on enhancing their group's general performance.
PanzerGR
Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:40 pm
#6
There is no combat engineer proffession
and there enver will be a combat engineer profession.
You have to mix with what you already have. A SL-Commando or SL-Ranger duo would be fine for establishing portable, break-down, defenses.
Plus your ideas for a revamp fall, as i said, far short of what SL's have been asking for for a while.....its almost taking us in reverse as far as the passive avilities you laid out. And if you had been playing SL for thta long you should have realized that seperating (and lowering the bonus at teh same time) of the terrain negotiation bonuses hurts.
Youve outlined for basically +30 GTN and +30 Crawl speed in your mobility branch, we currently get +50 plus what we get at master dumps into enhancing crawl speed. That means anyone with NO scout gets a full bonus with box 3 in the mobility line.
Rarrot
Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:01 am
#7
As far as this skill tree goes, I'd only suggest that the group force of will ability could be over-powered (the last thing we need is a nerf), and the burst run abilities last too long. Also, having retreat impose penalties on the entire group's defenses instead of just your own could lead to griefing.
Skills that require another profession present are one of the worst kind we could get. As much as I love rangers (I've got a master, after all), I'd hate to lose every benefit in an entire skill line just because I don't have one in my group. It's not really fair to set it up in such a way that I (and my entire group, as an extension) become weaker the moment the ranger has to log or the commando goes LD.
And what good would fortifications do us? If there isn't going to be a combat engineer profession, then there shouldn't be combat engineer skills forced into a profession that already has a time-consuming job: leadership. Any time you spend running around trying to drop the things is time you're not leading your squad, or even paying attention to them in case something unexpected happens; you can't be watching their status bars for dizzy/stun or excessive wounds if you're running around in circles trying to find a spot where you can place your little toys.
Skills that require another profession present are one of the worst kind we could get. As much as I love rangers (I've got a master, after all), I'd hate to lose every benefit in an entire skill line just because I don't have one in my group. It's not really fair to set it up in such a way that I (and my entire group, as an extension) become weaker the moment the ranger has to log or the commando goes LD.
And what good would fortifications do us? If there isn't going to be a combat engineer profession, then there shouldn't be combat engineer skills forced into a profession that already has a time-consuming job: leadership. Any time you spend running around trying to drop the things is time you're not leading your squad, or even paying attention to them in case something unexpected happens; you can't be watching their status bars for dizzy/stun or excessive wounds if you're running around in circles trying to find a spot where you can place your little toys.
Strudle
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:26 am
#8
PanzerGR wrote:
There is no combat engineer proffession
and there enver will be a combat engineer profession.
You have to mix with what you already have. A SL-Commando or SL-Ranger duo would be fine for establishing portable, break-down, defenses.
Plus your ideas for a revamp fall, as i said, far short of what SL's have been asking for for a while.....its almost taking us in reverse as far as the passive avilities you laid out. And if you had been playing SL for thta long you should have realized that seperating (and lowering the bonus at teh same time) of the terrain negotiation bonuses hurts.
Youve outlined for basically +30 GTN and +30 Crawl speed in your mobility branch, we currently get +50 plus what we get at master dumps into enhancing crawl speed. That means anyone with NO scout gets a full bonus with box 3 in the mobility line.
As of now I see no place where i would use sandbags and tell me guys to dig in toa particular spot. The raids i lead are highly mobile and my people are always moving.
The type of fortifications id like to see are walls and guard tower which can be placed in player cities to build fortresses.
Strudle
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:29 am
#9
PanzerGR wrote:
Youve outlined for basically +30 GTN and +30 Crawl speed in your mobility branch, we currently get +50 plus what we get at master dumps into enhancing crawl speed. That means anyone with NO scout gets a full bonus with box 3 in the mobility line.
re-read my post from novice to master. You get +50 GTN at master.
Therascalking3
Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:14 am
#10
honestly i try not to be negative but this tree map out needs so much work it should just be scrapped totally.
By the way the fact that you picked a FOTM profession kind of makes this community hostile towards you.
Panzer is right there are much more well developed and balanced ideas elsewhere on the forums. And also i think you should read up on the most developed version of the forts idea because it seems you have little to no understanding of what the idea consists of.
Therascalking3
Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:41 pm
#11
Strudle wrote:
Therascalking3 wrote:
honestly i try not to be negative but this tree map out needs so much work it should just be scrapped totally.
By the way the fact that you picked a FOTM profession kind of makes this community hostile towards you.
Panzer is right there are much more well developed and balanced ideas elsewhere on the forums. And also i think you should read up on the most developed version of the forts idea because it seems you have little to no understanding of what the idea consists of.
Its Squad Leader, not "Ft Builder"
then what is the point of the survival prereq?
the fort idea is probably the best idea the community has come up with to create an immersive and exciting experience. I mean i can see you being mad you didnt think of it but i didnt either and i like it so get over it and yourself. There is not combat engineer class and there does not need to be. Understand that in order to make this game work some things might not be the most logical but they make sense in one way or another. So a squad leader isnt a combat engineer but since that isnt a profession and the SL is the only oneto use the trench or sandbags then just let them make it for the games sake.
Since when is a commando (who is a special ops type of soldier) a big flamethrower carrier. Look if you want to just elminate survival from SL then ok but you dont leave that and not do anything with it. SL is one of the most heavy prereqed classes yet the bonuses you get for yourprereqs are nothing. Camps are rarely ever used anymore, The total benefit of Terrain Negotiation is given in SL so why do we need totrainit in Scout and ranged support doesnt do anything for anyone.While we are at it lets say that an SL isnt really some kind of scout. A squad leader would give someone else the role of scouting so lets take scout out of the prereqs. And theoretically the squad leader does not need to be a marksman and is a moregeneral support class but does not really provide any ranged support persay as our skills stop working from a distanceso we can take that out. So that leaves us with no prereq and plenty of extra skill points to use on more useful professions and skills.
once again it is Worthless waste of Skill points and not "Squad Leader" so why dont we make it worth something and not work backwards as you so elegantly done.
Strudle
Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:51 pm
#12
Therascalking3 wrote:
Strudle wrote:
Therascalking3 wrote:
honestly i try not to be negative but this tree map out needs so much work it should just be scrapped totally.
By the way the fact that you picked a FOTM profession kind of makes this community hostile towards you.
Panzer is right there are much more well developed and balanced ideas elsewhere on the forums. And also i think you should read up on the most developed version of the forts idea because it seems you have little to no understanding of what the idea consists of.
Its Squad Leader, not "Ft Builder"
then what is the point of the survival prereq?
the fort idea is probably the best idea the community has come up with to create an immersive and exciting experience. I mean i can see you being mad you didnt think of it but i didnt either and i like it so get over it and yourself. There is not combat engineer class and there does not need to be. Understand that in order to make this game work some things might not be the most logical but they make sense in one way or another. So a squad leader isnt a combat engineer but since that isnt a profession and the SL is the only oneto use the trench or sandbags then just let them make it for the games sake.
Since when is a commando (who is a special ops type of soldier) a big flamethrower carrier. Look if you want to just elminate survival from SL then ok but you dont leave that and not do anything with it. SL is one of the most heavy prereqed classes yet the bonuses you get for yourprereqs are nothing. Camps are rarely ever used anymore, The total benefit of Terrain Negotiation is given in SL so why do we need totrainit in Scout and ranged support doesnt do anything for anyone.While we are at it lets say that an SL isnt really some kind of scout. A squad leader would give someone else the role of scouting so lets take scout out of the prereqs. And theoretically the squad leader does not need to be a marksman and is a moregeneral support class but does not really provide any ranged support persay as our skills stop working from a distanceso we can take that out. So that leaves us with no prereq and plenty of extra skill points to use on more useful professions and skills.
once again it is Worthless waste of Skill points and not "Squad Leader" so why dont we make it worth something and not work backwards as you so elegantly done.
I did not cover pre-reqs, but i conestly think the pre reqs should be soemthing along the lines of Master Marksman and Exloration 4.
I do not think fortifications will benifit the proff and i am not jelous of someone thinking of them. Yes its a decent idea, but not an idea worthy of this particular proffession.
Id love to see more customization and design in building faction bases such as building walls, tower and turrets. I feel this should be an aspect of the city building in politician.
But as a Squad Leader, I want it to be an experience similar to being the 2nd Lt. in charge of the platoon. Did you see the platoon commander being the guy who sets up all the fortifications by diggign the trenchs and settign up sandbags? Perhaps if he was doing it alongside his men, but you are a
Squad Leader
SL abilities should enhance the group slightly and but also give the leader the tools to make his group collaborate better. Simply beign the guy who sets up the sand bags is nothing compared to the revamp described above.
Therascalking3
Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:20 pm
#13
Ok thats it arguments over. I asked you several times to just read what was being said in the forum and you cant even read what was said in the post i replied to yours. I said that in a game like this you have to make sacrifices. In the real world a Squad Leader would not set up a fort obviously no one man could set up a fort but for purposes of the game it would be the SL profession to get it.
Now you are also looking over the fact that prereqs are supposed to be the basis for a profession. What the hell would master marksman have to do with as squad leader as they can hold any type of weapon and fight with anything. And exactly what would exploration have to do with it. Yes we give the group terrain negotiation but that really has nothing to do with exploring anything. If a squad leader is exploring the territory he is fighting in he obviously has bad intel and doesnt know what the hell is going on.
and you want to talk about a SL not being the guy to deal with fort building. What the hell does a politician have to do with it? just end this whole argument right now
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